Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 8, 15, 28, 38, 44 and 113 together.

I refer to the reply to Priority Questions Nos. 1 and 2 on today's Order Paper. On 29 October 2009, the European Court of Justice ruled against Ireland in relation to the treatment of waste waters from septic tanks and other on-site wastewater treatment systems. The court found that by failing to adopt the necessary legislation to comply with Articles 4 and 8 of the 1975 Waste Directive as regards domestic waste waters disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual wastewater treatment systems, Ireland had failed to fulfil its obligations under that directive.

I have been in discussions with the Attorney General about this matter with a view to bringing forward legislation in the near future. The Department has examined in detail the regulatory systems in place in other jurisdictions, both in the EU and internationally. There is no single consistent approach to regulating the use of on-site treatment systems, although monitoring and inspection are common features in many of the countries reviewed. Notwithstanding the approach being taken in other countries, the legislation being drafted must ensure that we have compliance with the court ruling, which requires the establishment of a system of inspection.

The new legislation is being framed to minimise the impact on householders. Householders can be assured that if their systems are working properly and are being maintained they need not be concerned. Householders will be required to register details of their on-site systems on a national register. In response to a previous question, I indicated that it will be a risk-based approach rather than a universal system.

I do not accept that the proposed legislation will discriminate against rural dwellers. Where the new inspection system gives rise to any costs, including for additional individual householders, every effort will be made to keep those to a minimum. The key objective of the new legislation will be to enhance and protect public health and the environment which will, in turn, benefit rural dwellers in terms of a better quality of life and better quality water.

It is important also to appreciate the implications of failing to comply with the European Court of Justice ruling. In July 2011, the European Commission applied to the court to have fines imposed on Ireland. Such fines could involve a lump-sum penalty of €2.7 million and daily fines for continued non-compliance of more than €26,000 per day equivalent to more than €9.5 million per annum.

My Department has undertaken extensive consultations for purposes of the draft legislation, which is being prepared with the intention of minimising the resource implications for public authorities and for owners of on-site waste water treatment systems.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Will there be any exemptions from paying the registration fee, or any exemptions from having to register in the first instance? Many houses are served by bio-cycle treatment systems that already have an inspection, maintenance and management contract, which is dictated by planning permission conditions. Local authorities must have sight of the maintenance agreement signed with various contractors. For instance, compared to a house with a concrete septic tank that operates on such a system, a complex bio-cycle system is much more expensive to install and maintain and attracts an annual maintenance charge by an outside company. Will relief be available for those people using the bio-cycle system?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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If the system works there will be no need to worry because no remediation will be required. Systems such as bio-cycle operations are working and are already in compliance with planning law. The planning officer or relevant local government official who will inspect the system will, I am sure, find that if those systems are doing what they are supposed to do when installed, there will be no difficulty and they will receive a clean bill of health.

It has come to my attention that one local authority has done a recent survey which showed that 77% of all tanks surveyed in this matter were compliant. I do not think it will be an onerous task for home owners to comply with the proposed regulations.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Will householders be required to keep a register or a log of maintenance work? In his reply to Deputy Niall Collins, the Minister said it is proposed to have a national register for septic tanks. I understand from what he said previously that local authorities would deal with the inspections and registration. I ask the Minister to clarify whether local authorities keep the register or whether it is a national register to be kept in the Custom House?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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There will be a national and local register because it will be the same information that will be available to the local authorities and to the Department. Once the registration system is complete, after one year the local authorities will be charged with inspecting the tanks on the basis of a risk-based approach. The areas which pose the greatest risk to the ground water will be those around streams, rivers and lakes. These areas will be well-known to the local authorities and the EPA and they will be prioritised.

Regarding a maintenance agreement, the local authority will seek assurances that any required work will be verified as being completed and a maintenance agreement will need to be drawn up to ensure the system - just as in the case of the bio-cycle systems - is doing what it was intended to do. The guidelines will be published following the enactment of the legislation. I will outline the process when the Bill comes before the House in approximately four to six weeks.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will first call the Deputies who have put down questions.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I have a few brief questions for the Minister. Is it not true that other than the registration, the Minister is announcing exactly what is already in force in each local authority area in the country and where problems are being identified? Will financial or grant aid be provided to those people who need to upgrade their septic tanks? With regard to research, the EPA is carrying out research on new septic tanks in cases where planning permission is being sought. This is an issue in my constituency in County Leitrim. Householders may be in control of only a quarter of an acre site and no research has been done on the situation where the septic tank is not functioning. Can research be carried out to come up with a solution to this? If a septic tank is operated properly and situated in proper ground conditions, it would not be necessary to carry out desludging of the tank. Will advice, support and research be provided to householders to encourage them to desist from using Domestos, for example, which kills the bacteria that make the septic tank work? We could then reduce the potential costs for householders.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Naughten's last point about giving advice and support to householders to minimise the impact on our ground water and to minimise potential environmental damage in the future caused by the use of certain products. This is in tune with my basic philosophy on local government that there should be a devolved function in so far as possible for many of our national policy objectives which are also being pursued by our agencies. These functions should be carried out at local level by local authority staff and this is my policy.

I confirm that the EPA is carrying out research to find necessary solutions in the instances referred to by the Deputy. I expect a report in the near future about potential solutions. I emphasise that every possible effort will be made to find solutions which will be reasonable for people and which will solve the problem of the over-riding concern, the protection of ground water. The matter of financial assistance does not arise until 2013 or 2014 because all we are doing next year is asking people to register.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I do not think anyone, especially those who own septic tanks, wants to poison the ground water because it is in their interests to ensure the ground water where they live is of good quality. I agree with the Minister on the devolving of power to the local authorities. The devolution of power also includes quantifying the resources of local authorities. Has the Minister consulted the local authorities? What additional resources will be required? I deal primarily with Kildare County Council. I know the council cannot carry out work that is within its remit because it does not have the resources. Will inspections continue until a satisfactory result is obtained in cases where septic tanks fail a test and require to be upgraded? What will be the regime and the obligation on local authorities?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The question of additional staff resources does not arise as there is capacity in the local government system. Unfortunately, compared to five years ago, as a result of the economic downturn there is a low level of activity in all planning and engineering sections of local authorities. I am sure the Deputy knows this is the case in County Kildare as well as elsewhere.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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A lot of people were employed on temporary contracts. Does the Minister expect them to go out inspecting septic tanks?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Anyone who has no planning work to do or anyone wishing to carry out additional work where there is spare capacity will be asked to do other work such as this. This would be the prudent policy for any local authority management in order to ensure that staff are working to full capacity. The Department will consider carefully any additional staff resources requested by Kildare County Council. I do not think we have refused any requests for additional staff of a permanent nature who have been required to fulfil certain objectives, contrary to what the Deputy might have been told.

The Deputy also asked about the role of the local authority with regard to continuous inspection. When an inspection is carried out, certain remedial action will be requested and, as in the case of an NCT inspection for a car, it is up to the home owner to ensure the remedial action is carried out.

Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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One can do without a car but not without a septic tank.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will answer Deputy Flanagan in turn.

A follow-up inspection will ensure the remediation plan is carried out.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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I am flabbergasted at the Minister's lack of knowledge about what is happening in local authorities and the idea he would say that some local authority staff have no work to do. Everybody knows the local authorities cannot even undertake the functions which have been assigned to them because of the public sector recruitment embargo.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy must ask a question.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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I am sorry, Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has been carried away.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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I am shocked that the Minister is so off the beam on this matter. Will the Minister lift the public sector recruitment embargo? The question has been asked and people are concerned about funding. Many septic tanks will be deemed to be defective and why would rural dwellers not be entitled to funding when billions of euro have been spent on upgrading the wastewater treatment plants? The Minister's response was that this is not an issue until 2014 but this is not good enough. Will there be financial assistance for the necessary upgrades that will follow the inspections?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I know Deputy Daly's response to these matters is to raise more taxes, in other words, to get more money in income tax from people and then we will be able to provide every possible service. We have put that view to the test with the electorate in February and the Deputy's party failed; two members of the Socialist Party were elected while 76 members of Fine Gael were elected. That particular philosophical argument has been already put to the test. I assert there is spare capacity in local government relative to other years. Deputy Daly would not be expected to know the situation in every local authority but I get reports on a regular basis from all local authorities. There is spare capacity but not in every local authority, just in some local authorities. I will find the necessary resources to ensure this inspection regime is carried out. It is a matter for the Minister for Finance when the issue will arise as to whether funds will be made available in the form of a home improvement grant to carry out these remediation works. We should first wait to see what the inspection throws up. The issue may not be as big as the Deputy purports.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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Given that we have had a planning system since 1963, why is a registration fee required? Local authorities should be aware of the location of houses and septic tanks because all planning applications are registered with them. They should be able to inspect them without needing to charge for a new registration system.

In regard to the proposed national register of septic tanks, will it be available for sale to private companies who might want to encourage householders to spend money, just like the electoral register is available for sale to marketing companies?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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There is no doubt that some septic tanks are not functioning properly but I had the pleasure of building a number of tanks.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I hope the Deputy did a good job.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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That is why he is bankrupt.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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We built them properly according to the regulations of the time. However, when we built our first tanks there was no requirement to test the soil. The reason why so many tanks are not working is because their method of operation does not suit every land type. While the regulations now require land to be tested, until a number of years ago this was not necessary. If the tank is not working properly because the local authority did not require that the ground be tested, the person who owns the house is innocent. It would be unfair to make the owner fix the problem given that he or she observed the regulations in the first place.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I concur with Deputy Wallace that a county council is liable if it passes a septic tank on the basis of the information submitted in a planning application. If it is subsequently found that the system does not work, the council is responsible. We will take that into account.

A survey carried out in the Deputy's county of Wexford revealed that 77% of those surveyed were in compliance. It is, therefore, not a big issue in County Wexford.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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They must be the houses built by Deputy Wallace.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I hope Deputy Wallace was involved in constructing some of those tanks. I am pleased to be able to give him the good news that Wexford is not too bad in terms of how we intend to implement the programme.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Perhaps I am partly responsible for the high compliance rate.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps he is responsible for the remaining 23%.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Wallace for the contribution he has made to good quality groundwater in County Wexford.

In regard to Deputy Pringle's question, I am sure he is aware from his experience of water services that plenty of septic tanks predate 1963. I am sure they are located in County Donegal as well as County Kilkenny. We want to know their locations because they could be damaging groundwater and the environment. We want to catch everyone in order to ensure a proper and full register.

The Deputy can access the register of electors but I do not foresee him being able to access the register of septic tanks. It will not be for sale.