Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to meet with the Croke Park Implementation Body and also with public service trade unions. [17280/11]

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to meet public sector trade unions or the Croke Park Implementation body. [18453/11]

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the Croke Park Implementation Body and any arrangements made to meet with the leaders of the public sector trade unions. [18577/11]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 7, inclusive, together. I met the chairman and members of the Croke Park implementation body, together with the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, on 29 June. During the course of that meeting I heard their account of the progress being made and I conveyed my personal commitment to the most vigorous and ambitious implementation of the terms of the agreement, having regard to the major challenges which we face in ensuring the affordability and effectiveness of the public service. I met the public service union representatives who are members of the implementation body in this context. I have also met representatives of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to discuss issues of mutual concern, including the importance of the public service reform agenda, and I addressed the biennial conference of the congress in Killarney yesterday, 4 July.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A fortnight ago the Taoiseach withdrew his election comments about the Croke Park agreement not being implemented, which I wish to acknowledge. It was not made clear from the Taoiseach's reply whether he sees himself as Head of Government having any role in driving this initiative and fostering a positive approach to public service reform. The Taoiseach has removed all the staff in his Department who would have had direct responsibility for this area to another Department. Will the Taoiseach take a personal role in driving this process?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes. I support the work of the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform 100%. Having spoken to the Minister some weeks ago, I agreed it was important that I should meet the implementation body with him to express our confidence and appreciation of the efforts made by the implementation body and the constituent union members thereof in achieving significant change and success in respect of the first analysis of the Croke Park agreement.

I met the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, in Government Buildings. When speaking to its representatives in Killarney yesterday, I reiterated that the Government is completely supportive of the implementation of the Croke Park agreement. We are keen to see the agreement implemented in full. As has been made clear by Minister after Minister, it is important that the process is accelerated to achieve the targets we need to achieve. Yesterday, I said to the ICTU members and to the congress that in so far as I am concerned as Taoiseach, where there is a visible commitment to making the changes necessary to implement the Croke Park agreement, they will have in me a person as Head of Government for which they will have parity of esteem and an open door in respect of any discussions, concerns or anxieties they may have. I put this to them openly.

This is a process whereby the implementation of the agreement is critical for the future well-being of the country. From this point of view, while social partnership does not exist as it did previously, there is a willingness and a commitment from Government to engage with the trade union sector and the public sector unions to discuss the further changes required in the Croke Park agreement. I assure them of the Government's commitment to respond in respect of the conditions that have been agreed and signed off.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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While I take the view that it is important to adopt a constructive approach, does the Taoiseach consider the targets that have been met to be sufficient to meet the budgetary targets that clearly are required to be met in the next 12 months? In other words, has an assessment been made that the actual savings made will be sufficient to meet the overall deficit reduction challenge, given that the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have ruled out tax increases and social welfare cuts? Will the savings be of the necessary magnitude to make up the shortfall to arrive at the deficit reduction target set for the budget to be announced next December? Does the Taoiseach agree that it is not a highly constructive approach for some members of the Government to lecture people about reform from the safety of newspaper articles and so on, rather than becoming more personally engaged in driving a reform programme across Departments?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is aware that there is a comprehensive spending review taking place in all Departments. When it becomes available, the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance will reflect on the findings in the context of the preparations for the budget for 2012. As an analysis of the first review shows, there have been highly significant achievements to date in respect of the Croke Park agreement. However, acceleration of the process is necessary if the agreement is to be implemented in full, which is of such importance to the well-being of the country. As the Deputy is aware, the agreement was made between the previous Government and the trade unions in the public sector and, obviously, it is important that the Government, for its part, shows a willingness to work with the public sector to achieve the changes and objectives identified. Yesterday I wanted to reassure the Irish Congress of Trade Unions of the Government's full commitment to so doing in an all-island sense because, as the Deputy is aware, it is an all-Ireland body. The economic situation will not be transformed if we pretend to operate from individual sectors only. This is a requirement in respect of which there must be communication, dialogue, discussions and co-operation. The agreement is in situ and there is a strong belief it can be achieved in full. As I want this to happen, I seek an acceleration of the process by which it is to happen in line with the Government's view in this regard and with the co-operation of and goodwill on the part of the trade unions concerned. For my part, I am willing to participate and co-operate in the discussions and discourse on how this is to be achieved because the agreement has been signed off on with set conditions.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has spoken about the affordability and effectiveness of the public service, but I am sure he will agree that the real measure of successful reform within the public sector is the experience of citizens seeking to access public services. Citizens should have the right to access public services. They should have the right to access to education and health services. However, because of the policies of this and the previous Government, they do not have that right. It is not present as a fundamental entitlement and core value of the State. Given the austerity programme, of which he is now part, and the promise or threat of further cuts of €4 billion, does the Taoiseach accept that the situation can only get worse? Does he accept that it would be far better for the Government to face up to the major burden placed on citizens, rather than continuing with the shredding of public services?

The Taoiseach has stated social partnership will not continue in the way it has. An mbeidh sé ag cur próiséis eile ina áit? An mbeidh an Dáil ábalta eolas a fháil ón Taoiseach anseo sa Teach faoin bpróiséas sin?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government is facing up to tackling the big burden. If we leave things as they are, they will only get worse. Deputy Adams is aware that there is a deficit of huge proportions which has to be dealt with. There is no point in running away from it. There is no point in turning one's back on it. There is no point in thinking that somebody will walk in next week and pay it off. The country and the people have to deal with the deficit and this is the reason the Government is facing up to tackling the big burden and the reason we have made changes in respect of the banks and we are trying to do something about serious situation even though constrained by the conditions of the IMF-EU bailout deal. On the other hand, we are carrying out a serious analysis of how public money is spent so that we can make decisions in the best interests of the people and the country in order to close that deficit.

Deputy Adams makes the point about citizens having the right to services and this is what the Government wants. However, this cannot be achieved without making these structural changes. I pointed out to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions yesterday that many of its members have shown absolute commitment to making serious change and many of them across the board have encountered a great deal of difficulty in making changes. It is clear that a significant number of public servants know that the arcane structures within which they work are not conducive to delivering the kind of efficient professional modern service to which the Deputy refers and this is what we must aim for. This has happened in other countries, notably in Finland, to which the Secretary General referred and in Canada and other countries. The cost of delivery of public sector services can be downsized without impacting upon the quality of the delivery of front line services. The Government recognises the scale of the challenge and this is the up front political challenge. We are tackling the big burden and when it becomes clear what programmes should go or which should be maintained or expanded, the Deputy will have ample opportunity to discuss them in the House.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This format does not allow a deep penetration and discussion about some of these issues and underlying it is a deeply important philosophical question about the core values of this State. There was a time when the great and the good judged this Republic by how many millionaires we had and people are still scandalised. Every day we hear about HSE and other State agency executives being given large hand-outs. If we are to judge public services by the fact that a child could not be flown to Britain to get a transplant or that people who live in certain parts of this State will not have access to accident and emergency departments and that from next Monday, 11 July, the Government will have closed down or withdrawn many of those accident and emergency services, this is the core issue. A society must be built around these fundamental issues. From the cradle to the grave, wraparound health services must be a fundamental core value of this society. If this Government were to pledge itself to work to this core value, then it would find that people would support the Government in a real way when it tries to measure out the pain we are told all of us must suffer. Only a certain section of people are suffering that type of pain.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of young Maeve McGivern, the Minister for Health has apologised to the McGivern family for what happened. It should not have happened. As a parent I can only begin to estimate the trauma and the absolute consternation that applied. They had been waiting for the phone call for 11 months and when it came, the follow through was not possible. I too want to find out the exact sequence of what transpired from when the phone call was made from the hospital in the first instance. As soon as an accurate report becomes available, the Minister for Health will present it to the House because it is in everybody's interests, as Maeve's father said, that this should not happen again. I respect that people working in these sectors have a genuine commitment to seeing that things happen properly.

In terms of values our republic should be seen as the best place in which to raise a family and grow old with dignity and respect. The decisions of Government and the moneys paid by taxpayers provide services and opportunities through education and health whereby young people can have competence and confidence to stand on any stage in the world. They should have the opportunity to grow and develop; they should a sense of prosperity and achievement and have career opportunities here if that is what they want. That is what good government is about. Internationally, our country should be seen as a place of vibrancy, energy, initiative and endeavour where first class services apply. That, unfortunately, is not the case now and is why the Government has set out what we believe are the main targets in our programme for Government which has the potential to turn around the fortunes of the country and of our people.

These challenges will not be easily taken on, but they will be taken on because the Government is focused on bringing about a situation whereby we can understand that the values to which I referred can be achieved in an environment where political decisions are seen to be made strictly in the interests of our people and our country.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Taoiseach admit that the Croke Park agreement is nothing more than a cover for crudely cutting thousands of jobs in the public sector despite an OECD report which shows the Irish public sector to be far more modest than those in many more successful countries in Europe? The end result is now being felt in the drastic cuts being proposed in education, in terms of schools, the health services and so on.

Can we have the truth rather than fine words about values which do not mean anything in the face of what has happened here? At the conference of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions the Taoiseach promised more privatisation and cuts. Yet, apparently some congress leaders are hankering after partnership again.

Why should ordinary workers be fooled again when for 20 years partnership was used as a cover under which bankers and developers profiteered outrageously on the backs of ordinary people, but when the crisis blew up the trade union leaders were unceremoniously kicked out in the rain by the Taoiseach's predecessor? The price of that criminal greed was placed entirely on the shoulders of working people. That is the net result of partnership. Why should workers have any illusions about this fraudulent process, given the circumstances in which we find ourselves?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept the Deputy's comment that this is crudely cutting public service jobs. The Croke Park agreement was signed off between the Government, the public sector and the trade unions. As I said to Congress, many public sector workers understand better than the Deputy or I the arcane structures they were happy to put up with and the manner in which they are constrained from using their initiative and creativity to play their part.

The Deputy is aware of the numbers to be down-sized in the programme for Government over the lifetime of the Government. He is also aware of the numbers who have accepted voluntary redundancy to date. It is not a case of fooling anybody. We live in a very real world and, as I said to Deputy Adams, if the situation is not dealt with it will only get worse. Ordinary workers tell me the Government's job is to sort this out in everybody's interests. The programme for Government is quite clear in being committed to the sale of non-strategic State assets to realise up to €2 billion over the lifetime of the Government, and then to be sold at an appropriate time and at appropriate rates. The Government will make its own decision on that matter in due course.

I also pointed out to the Congress of Trade Unions that there are serious opportunities to reform the way in which things are done. The Croke Park agreement contains many of those elements. As I told congress yesterday, in so far as the Government is concerned, we will work with the implementation body and the trade unions to see that the achievements signed on for become a reality.