Dáil debates

Thursday, 2 June 2011

4:00 pm

Photo of Brian StanleyBrian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Question 7: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will confirm media reports which have stated that Colonel Gaddafi's grandchildren were killed in a NATO bombing raid on Libya and if true, if he approves of what is clearly an attempted assassination of the head of State of Libya. [13734/11]

Photo of Brian StanleyBrian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Question 15: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the way the latest reports of escalations in the war on Libya such as NATO's bombing of ships in Libya, the sending of troops to Libya, and the news that British and French are sending Apache and other military helicopters to take part in the war in Libya, constitute as conforming with a no fly zone UN resolution. [13735/11]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 42: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the extent to which he and his EU and UN colleagues have monitored the situation in Libya; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14080/11]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 15 and 42 together.

The Government welcomed the adoption by the United Nations Security Council of Resolution 1973 which demanded the immediate establishment of a ceasefire in Libya as well as a complete end to violence and attacks against civilians. Resolution 1973 authorised the establishment of a no-fly zone over Libya as well as "all necessary" additional measures in order to help protect civilians. The Government supports the implementation of Resolution 1973 in a manner that is proportionate, targeted and avoids civilian casualties.

Today, civilians in Libya remain under attack by Colonel Gadaffi, including through indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas and the use of cluster munitions. The text of Resolution 1973 specifically authorises member states:

to take all necessary measures...to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in [Libya]...while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory.

NATO has stated that its aerial actions to protect Libyan civilians by disabling the command structure and weapons being used by the regime are entirely in line with the resolution. Troops on the ground are specifically prohibited by the resolution and are not envisaged.

In implementing Resolution 1973, NATO appears to be taking the utmost care to avoid civilian casualties, in stark contrast to the deliberate targeting of civilians by Colonel Gadaffi's forces. I am aware of unconfirmed reports of the death of civilians, including relatives of Colonel Gadaffi, in a NATO bombing raid on Libya in May. The Libyan regime is tightly restricting information from Libya, so it is impossible at present to confirm the truth of such reports. NATO has stated that it regrets any loss of life and emphasised that all NATO targets are military; it does not target individuals. I welcome the assurances already provided that protecting civilians is the sole purpose of military operations now under way and that no actions will be contemplated which are not in strict accordance with the terms of Resolution 1973.

The aim of the current military, political and diplomatic action by the international community is to end the violence and promote a political settlement to the conflict in Libya. There are no circumstances in which one could envisage Colonel Gadaffi being part of this settlement. The vast majority of the Libyan people could not accept Gadaffi continuing as their Head of Government, in light of the violence and repression he has visited upon them and his repeated refusal to comply with Resolutions 1970 and 1973. However, calling for Gadaffi to relinquish power does not amount actively to seeking regime change. Colonel Gadaffi is, of course, the subject of investigation by the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court who is now seeking an arrest warrant for alleged crimes against humanity. Ultimately, it remains for Colonel Gadaffi and those around him to draw their own conclusions and recognise that his regime has no political future in Libya.

In order to increase the diplomatic pressure on Gadaffi, both the United Nations and the European Union have adopted hard-hitting sanctions against the Gadaffi regime. The EU promptly implemented the measures in Resolution 1973 including an assets freeze, arms embargo and travel ban, and later added additional individuals and entities, including investment companies and other institutions linked to the regime. The EU has also been actively involved in diplomatic efforts to resolve the conflict and most recently established a technical office in Benghazi to support Libyan efforts to rebuild their society in opposition-held territory. The role of the UN Secretary General's Special Envoy Al Khatib in exploring what scope exists for a political resolution to the crisis, beginning with a complete and verifiable ceasefire, is also critical and one which Ireland fully supports.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I am sure he is aware of the growing international concern at the NATO operation. UN Security Resolution 1973 was to prevent Gadaffi from using his army or airforce to attack Libyans. It is clear that the international community would support those objectives particularly in the context of the Arab spring that has taken place in neighbouring countries in north Africa and is now spreading throughout the Middle East. The Pan-African Parliament has condemned this. The Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has expressed concern over the objectives of NATO which have moved beyond the scope of the UN resolution. Konstantin Kosachev, spokesperson for the Duma foreign affairs committee in Russia, has expressed grave concerns at the attack which led to the killing of Muammar Gaddafi's 29 year old son and three grandchildren, which any right thinking person would have to condemn because it was an attack on the compound where they reside.

Does the Tánaiste share the concerns of the Russian Parliament, the Russian Prime Minister and the Pan-African Parliament? Does he believe there is consistency when there are numerous UN Security Council resolutions against Israel and international condemnation of Israel but no action? When Irish citizens try to go on a flotilla bringing international aid they are advised not to as they are not supported by the Government. Where is the consistency in approach? Where is the NATO operation against Israel to enforce those resolutions? This is the issue for the international community.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Having seen what has happened since the early part of the year in Libya and in particular at how citizens in Misrata have been attacked by the Gadaffi forces and taking into consideration the difficulties that were encountered with evacuating people from Misrata - to which operation Ireland made a significant financial contribution - nobody can be in any doubt about the way in which the Gadaffi regime has focused its guns on its own civilian population. A series of UN resolutions, particularly Resolution 1973, were designed to protect civilians. That is the objective Ireland supports in a manner that is proportionate, targeted and avoids civilian casualties.

One of the difficulties in forming an assessment of the impact of particular actions is the degree to which there is very little information coming from the Gadaffi-held parts of Libya. As the Deputy will be aware they have closed down the entire communications operation there. It goes without saying that nobody has any desire to see physical harm come to Muammar Gadaffi or any member of his family. That is not the objective of the UN operation. Neither, strictly speaking, is regime change part of that operation.

The Deputy spoke about the Russian response. I understand that Russia has now joined the list of countries stating that Muammar Gadaffi does not have a political future in Libya. They are increasingly trying to play a role in promoting a political resolution. The Russian Foreign Minister, Mr. Lavrov, recently met representatives of the Libyan regime and the Libyan transitional national council in Benghazi. President Medvedev has sent a special envoy to hold talks with the Libyan rebels in Benghazi all of which is welcome.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Does the Tánaiste agree that the attack on Libya has gone on much longer than anticipated? President Obama said it would be a matter of days but it is now into months. Imposing sanctions on Syria is surely a better approach than bombing, as they are doing with Libya. We would all like to see the end of the Gadaffi regime, as we would with many leaders in that region. I am not convinced that bombing is the way to resolve problems. Does the Tánaiste not believe that sanctions would be more effective in the long term and cause considerably less hardship?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Along with the Deputy, I welcome the sanctions being imposed on Syria, which has been done at United Nations level and at European Union level. At the most recent Foreign Affairs Council, attended by the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, agreement was reached on those sanctions. In Libya there had been an earlier resolution, Resolution 1970, which essentially imposed sanctions. The problem was that the Gadaffi forces were attacking in a very vicious manner their own civilian population. What does one do when a regime starts bombing?

It is invidious to be drawing distinctions and comparisons. In Libya the Gadaffi forces were bombing their own cities. There is an obligation on the international community at a humanitarian level. The international community cannot allow dictatorial regimes to engage in that level of attack on their own civilian populations. I know many countries have very nasty regimes that deal in a very savage way with people who are protesting and so on. However, when a ruler of a country uses the armed forces of that country to engage in blanket attacks on civilians in his own cities, the international community has an obligation to act in order to protect those civilian populations.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has put his finger on the issue. What should the international community do when there is obvious civil strife taking place to the extent that has been taking place in recent months and still continues? Does the international community and do we as participants in that thinking stand aside and do nothing or do we try to influence in some way as the Tánaiste has set out? For example there will always be people who will take both sides - sometimes in the same instance. How does one then resolve the problem? Does one presume that by the international community doing nothing the problem will go away or will it be seen to give reassurance to the aggressors that they can continue indefinitely and seek out their own way to resolve any problem or put down any disquiet or civil unrest in a most aggressive fashion?

I ask the Tánaiste whether there is something more the international community could do by way of diplomatic and other pressures to bring about a resolution that will not end up in the enormous loss of life that continues at the moment.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The international community must respond to an issue such as this one in Libya and it must be through the United Nations. This is why this was done by way of a United Nations Security Council resolution, which we support. It needs to be backed up by political and diplomatic work, which is why Ireland supports the work of the special envoy to explore what progress can be made in getting a complete ceasefire, bringing an end to the violence and the conflict, and bringing about the kind of political change for which the citizens of Libya have been calling in much the same way as has happened in the other countries that have been part of the Arab spring - except in this case they were crushed.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Question 8: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the way Ireland can aid the 165,000 refugees from Western Sahara, who have been living in refugee camps since 1975, who fled escaping Moroccan occupation and who are in desperate need of humanitarian assistance. [13728/11]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Saharawi refugees arrived in Algeria in 1975 and 1976 following the escalation of the conflict over Western Sahara. The majority of these are sheltered in camps in the south-western desert province of Tindouf, where the Algerian authorities estimate the current number of refugees at some 165,000. A significant part of the Saharawi population also continues to live in Western Sahara, and many families remain separated.

Basic social services in the camps are provided by the Saharawi "government-in-exile", together with the support of the international aid community. Some of the major organisations on the ground include the World Food Programme, WFP, which provides food assistance, and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, UNHCR, which gives assistance in areas including the provision of water, sanitation, health, nutrition and education.

In response to the continuing needs in this protracted humanitarian crisis, I recently authorised €250,000 in funding from Irish Aid for UNHCR's operations in the camps. These funds will be used to support the provision of basic services and to help refugees to maintain contact with their families. In addition to this direct assistance, UN agencies operating throughout the region can also benefit from the UN's Central Emergency Response Fund, CERF, to which Ireland has contributed €81 million since 2006.

Ultimately, of course, the only resolution to the plight of the Saharawi refugees will come with a political settlement between Morocco and Western Sahara. Ireland has a long-standing policy of support for the right to self-determination of the people of the Western Sahara. We remain strongly supportive of the UN's role and the efforts of UN Secretary General's Special Envoy, Christopher Ross, in trying to promote a political dialogue and settlement and earnestly encourage both Morocco and the Polisario, which I met recently, to engage constructively during talks scheduled to take place next week in New York.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I have also been engaged in talks with the various parties to this conflict. I met Polisario on a number of occasions and also representatives of the Moroccan embassy. I had made contact with the Algerian embassy in London. It appears this conflict can be resolved with a bit of effort. It is difficult in that the Saharawi people clearly have a right to self-determination. Morocco, which presides over much of the land of Western Sahara, is a monarchy and is undergoing considerable reform at present. Many of the Moroccan people who live in the northern provinces have an affinity with and roots in Western Sahara. This region was devastated by colonialism historically by the French and Spanish who, like the British throughout the world, clearly divided and conquered and left behind a devastating legacy that lasts to the present day.

I appreciate the comments and commitments of the Minister of State on this matter. We should make whatever contribution we can based on our own departmental officials' experience of our peace process. I will be happy to give whatever humble assistance I can and engage with the various protagonists. In fairness to the Department of Foreign Affairs, it is much more eminently qualified than I am and has many more resources and contacts than I do. The conflict can be resolved with focused effort. We need to address the human rights concerns. I ask the Minister of State to utilise whatever resources are available to reach a conclusion.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I agree with the Deputy Mac Lochlainn that Ireland has consistently supported the right to self-determination of the people of Western Sahara. A meeting is scheduled for next week with Mr. Christopher Ross in New York. Ireland will continue, through the dialogue the Deputy described, to support the ongoing process. There is a blockage at present with regard to a referendum on self-determination and strong efforts are being made internationally to address that problem. We hope the talks next week will be successful. I agree with the Deputy that Ireland has a very strong record on finding solutions to its very difficult problems. I am sure we can help in the international field in this regard.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I commend the Minister of State on her response to this issue and her spirited defence of those who have been attacking the Irish Aid programme in recent times. Given the importance of bringing home to the Irish people the seriousness of circumstances in many locations, such as Western Sahara, where Irish aid is being provided, will she and the Minister for Foreign Affairs consider undertaking a number of visits to critical locations around the world so we can emphasise again to the Irish the importance of maintaining the aid budget, notwithstanding the difficulties we are experiencing?

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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We are in tune with the Irish people when we defend the Irish Aid programme. When the US President, Mr. Obama, was here, he said we are very much known for what we do through our development programmes, which are supported on all sides of the House.

I am planning to go to Africa, namely Malawi and Mozambique.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Can I go too?

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs has been engaging with the United States with regard to various international issues. We certainly intend to be strong in our work on this matter. I acknowledge all previous Governments have played a very strong role in regard to aid. Ireland's record is really excellent and its aid programme has been assessed as being the fifth most effective in the world.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with Deputy Ó Fearghaíl. I have asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs to engage in talks on the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and I welcome his raising the matter with the President of the United States when he was here. There is much cynicism about international travel but we can make no apologies for it if it concerns international aid. We must have the full support of the House in terms of the Minister of State engaging proactively in trade missions and furthering Ireland's fantastic role. Ireland has had a great track record in international affairs and interventions having learned from its own experience of conflict. It has used its respect and standing in this regard positively.

There have been attacks on Ireland's reputation recently, and we began this session talking about them. Ireland's reputation with regard to conflict resolution and human rights is second to none. Ireland has had wonderful civil servants over the years. I urge the Minister of State to lead from the front using recent experience of Ireland's own conflict and others. She will have the full support of Members on this side of the House when travelling as much as she can throughout the world to promote the aforementioned message and when engaging in trade missions.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Without being at all cynical, I ask that the Minister of State invite the press on foreign visits. It is very important that it know what the money is being spent on.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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There will be some members of the press travelling with us and we intend to get the message to the people of Ireland. I acknowledge strongly the support of Members throughout the House on these issues. I agree the aid programme will constitute a key part of Ireland's regaining its international reputation.