Dáil debates
Tuesday, 31 May 2011
Ceisteanna - Questions
Policy Development and Implementation
2:30 pm
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the work he has undertaken to coordinate Government policy on economic renewal and jobs. [11382/11]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide details of any arrangements put in place under the control of his Department other than Cabinet committees to coordinate policy through Government. [11802/11]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will detail the economic tasks administered on his behalf by him which do not fall within the realm of Cabinet confidentiality following his revised approach to Cabinet committees. [12097/11]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will give details of his contribution to the jobs initiative. [12832/11]
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 7, inclusive, together.
As head of Government, the primary means by which I co-ordinate policy development and implementation is through chairing Government meetings, the Government Economic Management Council and Cabinet committees. The deliberations of these bodies are all bound by the principle of Cabinet confidentiality. I also represent Ireland's interests, including economic interests, through my attendance at European and other international meetings. I meet business representatives and other individuals and groups around the country on a regular basis.
My Department co-ordinates policy in several other ways including through monitoring implementation of the programme for Government and supporting interdepartmental and other groups in specific areas when required. However, responsibility for specific aspects of the economic policy, including the jobs initiative, rests with a number of my Government colleagues including the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Enterprise, Jobs and Innovation. These are available to answer specific questions on any individual area of economic policy.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am trying to get a measure of the commitments given by Fine Gael and Labour, the parties who make up this Government, before the election. The Taoiseach said that job creation would be his number one priority and promised to create 100,000 jobs over five years through the NewERA programme. He told voters he would invest €7 billion in the development of the State's water services, telecommunications infrastructure and energy industry. The Tánaiste proposed a €500 million jobs fund and a strategic investment bank with a capacity of €2 billion from the National Pensions Reserve Fund.
In terms of trying to coordinate the work of the Government, and the Government seems to be quite uncoordinated and speaking with many different voices at this time, have those promises been abandoned? Have they been made subservient to the IMF and EU sovereignty over this part of the island or is a serious effort being made to bring in jobs as the only sure cure for this recession?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes. A serious effort is being made to bring in jobs. That is why the Tánaiste and Minister for trade has already met all of the European ambassadors here and all of the non-European ambassadors. The Minister for Finance, other Ministers and I meet political and business interests outside Ireland in respect of continuing to put emphasis on the attractiveness of this country in terms of its location for investment because of the flexibility of our workforce, our proven record and our entrance to a single market of 500 million customers.
The Deputy will realise that the programme for Government is for the period of Government. This Government is now in situ just more than 80 days and already it has made serious decisions in respect of the banking problem where we had six dysfunctional banks. We have introduced a jobs initiative which is not to the extent we would wish but it is constrained by virtue of the economic circumstances in which we find ourselves, and the Government is now carrying out a serious analysis of the ways public money is spent. That comprehensive spending review will be finished by September. The Minister for Finance will commence his bilateral discussions with individual Ministers in respect of the preparation for the 2012 budget.
It would be very easy to stand here and say it is easy to govern if one has billions of euro to lash out. In the case of making decisions about priorities, these are matters that Government will consider in terms of the programmes that should be abolished, the programmes that should be extended, and the programmes that should be kept in the interests of fairness in society and of fairness to the people. In other words, in facing into this economic challenge the country faces, it has to be demonstrated that there are decisions being made that impact on everybody and that everybody has a part to play in that.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach said it would be easy to govern if one had billions of euro to lash out. However the Government is lashing out billions to banks and to those who are retiring from that elite group, and it is cutting money from carers, classroom assistants and from the most vulnerable sections of our society. I do not see any excuse for that. There is a huge gap, a bearna mór, between the commitments made and what is being done now. The Taoiseach only has to go into any one of those sectors in his own constituency and see how much they are hurting at the moment.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a supplementary question?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have occasion to get around the county that I represent as a Deputy. The Deputy has spoken about commitments entered into in respect of banks, which is true. I had the opportunity to open a small, two teacher school in the past fortnight, money for which was provided by the last Government.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach had better not tell Deputy Quinn.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It cost €1 million and is a beautiful building with all the facilities provided. I am sure it is a privilege for the staff to teach there. When one considers that we could build 3,000 of those every year for ten years in respect of the promissory notes of €30 billion signed for banks over the next decade, then one can understand the scale of the background to where we now find ourselves.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is gone and we now have to deal with the consequences of those decisions. That is why the Government has made decisions focusing on the banks and sorting out our budget deficit over the next few years, and focusing on the creation of jobs, giving some stimulus to the indigenous economy and presenting this country as being open for business and as a location for foreign direct investment that is unparalleled. That is evidenced by the continuing strong interest in investment here, which is something I am sure the Deputy supports, as it impacts on his constituency as well.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Martin.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Would the Taoiseach consider equality proofing these decisions?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but I have called Deputy Martin.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Questions Nos. 5 and 6 deal with the Taoiseach's role in co-ordinating economic policy and Question No. 7 is about the jobs initiative. I will deal with the three of them and I will ask permission for supplementary questions, especially for Question No. 7.
The Taoiseach has restructured the Department in such a way as to remove nearly all of his work from parliamentary scrutiny and put it behind Cabinet confidentiality. The Taoiseach gave the new economic Cabinet committee a good name, but in essence its effect is to end the ability of Members on this side of the House to ask the Taoiseach about nearly all of his work in the economic field. That is the exact opposite to the increased transparency that we were promised by him on coming into Government. The Taoiseach normally oversees a range of co-ordination measures for Government priorities, but if all of these come under Cabinet committees, then clearly that work is effectively shielded from all scrutiny. How can the Taoiseach talk about increased accountability when he is directly reducing it in his own work?
The Department of the Taoiseach is setting a very aggressive approach in transferring questions elsewhere and disallowing questions that have always been answered by taoisigh in the past. The situation is getting worse, as far as we can see. Are there any economic matters handled by the Department for which the Taoiseach is willing to be accountable during Question Time? What would they be?
My question on the jobs initiative is again about transparency----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will deal that issue separately to these questions.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My Department has an economic and social policy division that is available to provide me, as Taoiseach, with advice and briefing on appropriate relevant issues. I set up a number of Cabinet committees, including committees on economic recovery and jobs, social policy, climate change and the green economy, European affairs, economic infrastructure, Irish in the Gaeltacht and public service reform. The economic Cabinet committee met on Thursday, 26 May for the first time. I chair that committee. The Government economic management council has met on 14 occasions. I chair all of those meetings. We discuss the economic issues of the day, the issues that are likely to arise and how we should deal with them. From that point of view, in my capacity as Taoiseach, I have access to the economic and social policy division of my own Department. I interact on a regular basis with the Minister for Finance and the Minister for public expenditure and reform, as well as all other Ministers. Matters arise at Cabinet, as the Deputy is aware, and are discussed on a weekly basis. The Deputy may feel free to ask any question he wishes. He has that opportunity during Leaders' Questions in any event. The Government has created two new Departments, one dealing with finance overall and the other dealing - for the first time by a senior Minister - with how that money is spent and how services should be provided in order to obtain the best results for the taxpayer. That is a serious advance. As part of that, the office of the Taoiseach is kept constantly informed and is entitled to interact and guide economic policy through its chairmanship of the economic management council and the other Cabinet committees I have mentioned.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach did not actually respond to the questions I put about accountability to the House with regard to his own work in co-ordinating economic policy across Government. What the Government is putting in place is a structure that shields the Taoiseach from any real accountability to the House on economic matters. That is reflected in his utilisation of Cabinet confidentiality in respect of the committees he has established and also by the disallowing or transfer of a range of questions that were put to him and other Ministers. This flies in the face of what the Government committed to in terms of increased transparency.
With regard to Question No. 7, the issue of increased transparency again arises. The Taoiseach has so far refused to release any information or any of the background material provided in the lead-up to the announcement of the jobs initiative. Did he at any stage ask for a briefing on the possible impact of the pension levy? Will he make this briefing material available to us? In addition, will he indicate to the House whether he personally made any attempt to implement the promise of a major jobs budget which he made last February? The Taoiseach said publicly that there would be a major jobs budget, but it was subsequently scaled down. Can he provide any insight into the interaction between him and the other Ministers when they talked him down from the precipice of the jobs budget, which became a mere budget-neutral jobs initiative?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is nonsense to suggest that the Department of the Taoiseach is not responsible for economic policy here.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I said "accountable".
3:00 pm
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have chaired 14 meetings of the economic management council dealing with fundamental elements of our economy and how we can get out of the mess we have been left with. The same applies in respect of the other Cabinet committees, which, as the Deputy knows, are subject to the principle of confidentiality.
Committee Stage of the Finance Bill will be taken next week. Politics, as the Deputy is well aware, is about making decisions to move the country forward for the benefit of the people. Being political people ourselves, we obviously have views about what might be of benefit to the economy and, as a consequence, to the people, such as the reduction in employers' PRSI and the targeted reduction in VAT to realise the potential of the tourism sector and create employment. These are political decisions which were made based on clear views about what the Government should do within the constraints of the IMF-EU deal. I make no secret of the fact that we would have loved to be in a position to have a much more expansive budget to assist with job creation. We have just been through a quarterly analysis of the IMF-EU deal - and passed with commendation on all conditions - and, given the fact that we are somewhat constrained by virtue of economic circumstances, the Government made a deliberate decision to implement targeted and focused actions which will encourage employers to take on new employees and stimulate our indigenous economy. This will help people to get back a sense of confidence, which, as the Deputy quite rightly agrees, is important in allowing us to move forward.
On Committee Stage next week Deputies will have an opportunity to tease out the details. By and large it refers to our political conclusion that this is all possible in the jobs initiative as outlined by the Minister for Finance and is in the interest of job creation and stimulation of the indigenous economy.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am trying to understand how all of this works. I can understand the Taoiseach coming forward with very genuine propositions to do this, that and the other but the IMF and EU will not let him do so because essentially they are running the show. The Taoiseach would be better to tell people this.
If I recall properly, today is the day the Titanic was launched in Belfast.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Question Time. Does the Deputy have questions?
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, I do. In the case of the Titanic the captain did not see the iceberg until it was too late. The Taoiseach can see the iceberg - it is the debt. If the Taoiseach cannot spell out to us what jobs are being brought forward and explain how he has changed his tack and u-turned on many of these issues we are heading for a disaster. The Taoiseach should come forward and tell us in clear terms that while he would like to do all of these things he cannot. I ask the Taoiseach to make a statement on this.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams must have been doing too many clinics in his constituency as he seems to have missed the fact that we have changed the original deal here because the Ministers for Finance and Public Reform and Expenditure renegotiated elements of the deal with the IMF and the EU. They got their consent to reverse the decision made to cut the minimum wage; to reduce employers PRSI by 50%; and to have targeted stimulus directed at the tourism area by reducing VAT from 13.5% to 9%.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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And to give millions to the banks.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Which question is Deputy Adams asking?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We are speaking about the job creation measures arising from Question No. 7 tabled by Deputy Martin and Deputy Adams seems to have missed that or he has just let it slip by.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No, I have not. I just have not seen the jobs.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have also pointed out the internship programme that is here, the stimulus that will come from the regeneration of disintegrating road structures throughout the country and the schools programme which will give targeted employment potential for smaller employers in the construction sector and tradespeople who have been out of work for some time.
I am quite open about this. This is not as expensive as we would wish it to be because we do not have the endless largesse and funds that seemed to be available to Governments in the past for which we now have to pay. Within these confines, these are targeted and focused and they will yield results. From this point of view, the bigger argument about the banks and sustainability and interest rates issues are, as the Deputy is aware, under consideration by the Ministers for Finance of the European Union.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On the issue of accountability following on from Deputy Martin's earlier question. I am increasingly frustrated at the determination of the Taoiseach's Department to transfer or disallow questions on matters that relate to economic affairs in particular, which I understand the Department is supposed to deal with and the Taoiseach has just answered such a question. However, these questions are disallowed. For example-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy ask a question please?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach explain why a question I submitted-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are not going to ask why a question was disallowed. This is not the place to ask it. Come up to my office and you will get an answer. Now, will you ask a question?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why then consistently have numerous questions that have been submitted to the Taoiseach-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, Deputy that is not-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----about economic affairs-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is parliamentary questions to the Taoiseach.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----either been disallowed or transferred?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a matter for the Taoiseach.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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He needs a FÁS course.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Deputy Martin asked the same question and you did not interrupt him.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You were on to my office earlier and you were told what to do. Now please do what you were told to do and I will be only too pleased to deal with you.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I was not told anything by your department.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is questions to the Taoiseach; it is not about disallowing questions.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is precisely what you are-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat. I have been kind enough to let you in. You will not be let in a second time.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach did not answer the question I asked in regard to the jobs initiative. I refer to the analysis in regard to the impact of the pension levy on an already fragile pensions industry and sector. There is much concern about pensions provision in the public and private sectors.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That has more to do with a separate question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Taoiseach a basic question. Did he receive advice and briefing materials on the impact of the pension levy? If he did, will he please make them available to Members of the House and publish them?
Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Did the Deputy get advice on the bank guarantee?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin can feel free to ask any question he likes on Committee Stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 next week. I have already made the point that, and as was pointed out by the Minister for Finance, elements of the pensions industry clearly indicated that their preference would be for a 0.5% levy as distinct from any further reduction in tax relief in the pensions area. This is targeted - it is limited to four years at 0.6% - at the creation of jobs, which is very important.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Did the Department of Finance give the Taoiseach any briefing material?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a separate question.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will get all the answers to all those questions on the-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the Taoiseach. He should be upfront for once.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The reason Ministers are appointed to this Cabinet is to accept responsibility for their Departments, not like somebody opposite who said he had no responsibility-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Did the Taoiseach get briefing material?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----for up to €1 billion in respect of elderly people.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should answer the question he was asked.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In regard to the answer to the Deputy's question and any other question he might have, he can spend as much time as he likes on Committee Stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 next week and the Minister for Finance will reply.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not for me to attend Committee Stage; it is for the spokesperson.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have made the point about how the pensions levy arose.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Did the Taoiseach get briefing material from the Department of Finance?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not worried about the past.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should be.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputies please be in order?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is not an illusion or a mirage, which the Deputy talked about earlier. This arises from political decisions made by the Cabinet and based on its conclusions on a range of information provided. That range of information can be the subject of any number of questions the Deputy wishes to ask next week on Committee Stage of the Bill which is where they are supposed to be asked.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why will the Taoiseach not answer? Did he get advice?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question is to ask the Taoiseach if he will give details of his contribution to the jobs initiative.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It appears to be nil.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin is now straying into a totally different area. He should table an appropriate question and we will get an answer. I am moving on to Parliamentary Question No. 8 in the name of Deputy Adams. We cannot go all over the shop.