Dáil debates

Tuesday, 12 April 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions

European Council Meetings

3:00 pm

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach his priorities for the next meeting of the European Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6577/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the bilateral meetings he has arranged with other EU Prime Ministers.; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7687/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to answer Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together. A formal agenda has not been finalised for the next meeting of the European Council, which will take place on 24 June. However, I expect the emphasis will remain on the key economic challenges facing Europe, including the response to the current crisis, the preservation of financial stability, and laying the ground for smart, sustainable, socially inclusive and job-creating growth. The comprehensive package of economic measures we decided at the March Council included pressing forward with implementation of the new European semester. This will see member states submit programmes this month covering budgetary plans and structural reforms, as well as commitments under the euro plus pact as appropriate.

On foot of these national programmes, the Commission will present its proposals for country-specific opinions and recommendations in good time for assessment and adoption at the June Council. I remain in close contact with my European colleagues, both in capitals and in the EU institutions, including on matters relating to the economic challenges facing Ireland and the Union. Arrangements for specific bilateral meetings will fall for consideration in this context.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Tá sé soléir nach bhfuil morán dul chun cinn déanta ag an Rialtas lenár bpairtnéiri san EU. As an observer, it strikes me that no progress has been made in recent engagement with the EU partners. During the period under consideration the debt here has increased-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can Deputy Adams ask a question please?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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These policies have had the same effect in Greece, increasing their debt. The debt has increased here. The banking debt is unsustainable. Does the Taoiseach believe that rolling out these policies will lead to different results and to increasing the burden on ordinary people? Would it not be better to make it clear to our partners in Europe that this is not sustainable? Leaving aside every other ideological or political issue, we cannot afford this debt. Would the Taoiseach not be better off making this point clear to people at the EU?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Tá a fhios ag an Teachta go bhfuil an-chuid difríocht idir an Rialtas seo agus an ceann a bhí ann roimhe seo. The legacy inherited by the Government must be dealt with. There is no point in running away from it because if we do nothing it gets worse. The decisions made by the Government in tackling the banking problem have brought about a positive response from the IMF, the EU, the European Commission, international banks and commentators, who have all recognised that at last a Government has taken decisions in respect of the banking sector. These decisions will bring about what are now known as the two pillar banks, which will be in a position to lend money and return to a position which one would expect banks to be in. Deputy Adams is well aware that we will never achieve the growth levels to which we aspire unless we sort out these problems. The Deputy will also be aware that parallel to dealing with the banking sector the Government, as part of its programme for Government, proposes to introduce in the next couple of weeks a jobs initiative scheme that will lead to a stimulation of the indigenous economy, thus creating the confidence necessary for people to spend, employers to take on new employees and assisting in the rebuilding of our economy. Far from the Government being lethargic or not moving on issues, it has and will continue to make decisions. The process outlined here is a necessary part of this. It is also in keeping with what other countries in Europe must do.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Aontaím leis an Taoiseach faoin Rialtas deireanach. I agree with what the Taoiseach had to say in regard to the last Government. He is correct that it created this legacy and that its policies were wrong. Why then repeat them? I never said that we are not moving. We are moving: we are moving backwards. There needs to be a change of tactics. Politics is at all times a matter of political choices. We cannot all the time blame the previous Government for what this Government is doing. That is the responsibility of the Taoiseach and not the previous Government.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This Government has in its first month taken some serious decisions about the banking sector, which have brought about a positive response internationally which we did not have before. It is a small step in the right direction, although it is not where we want to be. We want to see the IMF go home and this country getting back to borrowing on the international markets at rates below those currently available to us, thus putting us in control of our own economic destiny. The Government will continue to make decisions, difficult though they may be. If this crisis is not faced up to it will only get worse. I think the Deputy understands that. From that point of view, we must try to sort out our problems in a eurozone context. The Government will continue to play its part in that regard. This is necessary from a European Union and eurozone perspective.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is time to put spin and optics to one side. The Taoiseach and everyone else knows that the decisions taken last week in terms of the banking sector flowed from stress tests which were well underway before the previous Government left office. It is time to put all the spin aside. Everyone knew about the two emerging banks, Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland. There is no big deal in that regard either.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The entire problem was caused by the previous Government.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The fundamental issue is that there has been no burning of bondholders. In regard to the forthcoming meeting, will the Taoiseach be raising the issue of an interest rate reduction? Will it be on the agenda given the IMF report and its statement that such interest reductions are now urgent in terms of the European loan facility and mechanisms? Also, can I take it from the Taoiseach's reply that no bilateral meetings, separate to the summit, have been arranged between him and other EU Heads of State?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I remind Deputy Martin, who was on this side of the House a short time ago, that there were six dysfunctional banks in this country, complete confusion from day to day and from week to week, and that the Government would not even admit to the people that the IMF had landed here. Obviously, a deal was done between the IMF-ECB-EU, the consequences of which we must now deal with.

The Deputy will be aware that it was decided at the Heads of Government meeting that the Ministers of Finance should deal first with the bank stress tests results before pursuing the question of interests rate reductions. From that point of view, while the next charge in respect of interest is not due until October-November, this matter will be pursued by the Ministers for Finance. It is always referred to at other meetings. Several heads of Government were in contact at the last meeting about arranging bilateral meetings and I am pursuing that. I will advise the House of them as soon as the arrangements are finalised. There will be a meeting with the British Prime Minister next week.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the interest rate, we heard what happened at the last meeting of European Finance Ministers. There was some sort of bilateral meeting on the bus with the French Finance Minister and the German Finance Minister was fairly categoric and blunt in his approach to the issue, which I regret because there has to be some quid pro quo. What is required is an overall European resolution of this issue. Surely, given the response from Finance Ministers, it is time the Taoiseach took the issue to the heads of state at the next meeting and put it formally back on the agenda for resolution.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot comment on all of the meetings that took place and whether people spoke on a bus. I know that the Minister, Deputy Noonan, had a number of meetings with-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The national broadcaster so reported.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If you ask the question, the Taoiseach will give an answer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----the different Finance Ministers. At least it was known if the conversation took place on a bus, unlike when a previous Government brought assessors in a van with blacked out windows to see the site of a proposed sports centre several years ago. The German Minister for Finance made his views known, and not for the first time.

This is an ongoing process. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and Deputy Howlin have been delegated responsibility to deal with this matter and will do so. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, on behalf of the Government, has been clear in this regard. While it is the legal responsibility and right of the Commission to produce any paper that it so wishes, in respect of a CCCTB, as we have already made clear at the meeting of the heads of Government we will participate in discussions on any paper produced by the Commission. In this regard, we have a very healthy scepticism and have outlined our objections to the consequences for Europe, and not just Ireland, of a CCCTB.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a change from previous Government policy which was always to oppose a CCCTB.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the corporation tax rate, there will not be any movement from our stated position.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Previous Governments opposed a CCCTB.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already stated my views on a CCCTB. T he Deputy does not expect us to sit at a meeting and not contribute to a debate that is taking place. We have a very healthy scepticism about that. I have pointed out the difficulties as I see them. Obviously, the Commission is not bound by any Government in producing papers that it wishes to. As a country we will participate in the discussion and I have given the Deputy an outline of what our discussion will be in that regard.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Should the Taoiseach not say to his European counterparts when he next meets them that, in light of the downward revised growth projections for the Irish economy, the cuts and austerity they require to be imposed on this economy and the people in it are counter-productive and are not working? He should tell them the reduced growth that is projected is the result of the austerity and cuts and we should perhaps acquaint them with the common wisdom here, namely, that if one is in a hole, one should stop digging. That is what the lower growth rates indicate.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already raised the issue of the austerity programme that has been imposed on the Irish people and the difficulties we foresee. Energy costs have risen due to external factors. There is a loss of confidence in consumer demand, which must be stimulated. That is why the Government will respond to that issue in the coming weeks by introducing a jobs initiative to stimulate consumer demand.

It is perfectly obvious that one has to have a growth strategy to grow the economy. As somebody who has an interest in this, the Deputy will be well aware of what we could achieve over the next ten years if we did not have to pay out €3 billion every March in promissory notes signed up to by the last Government.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Was the Minister at the back of the bus?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know anything about the bus. I am not sure whether it was the No. 8 or the No. 7.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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We do not care whether our Taoiseach sorts out our problems on a bus, a car or an office; we would be grateful for help wherever he gives it.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I did not ask about the Kerry bus either.