Dáil debates
Tuesday, 12 April 2011
Order of Business
4:00 pm
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 6, Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Bill 2010 [Seanad] - Second Stage (Resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 19, motion re education and training.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are no proposals to be put to the House today. On the Order of Business, I call Deputy Martin.
Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, I raise the issue of Ministers not answering questions here in the House.
(Interruptions).
Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know it is a laugh. It is strictly a point of order. As the Chamber will be aware, Deputy Howlin was announced by the Taoiseach to be Minister for public expenditure and reform and in recent times all questions directed to him, either orally or in writing, have been redirected to the Minister for Finance. I remind the House that the record shows that the last time there was a Minister without portfolio, the Minister answered questions in this House before the legislation to establish the Department was set up. I ask that the Ceann Comhairle examine the matter with a view to making a ruling on it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will look into the issue on the Deputy's behalf. I assure him that I make every effort to ensure Deputies' questions are answered.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Martin on the Order of Business and not the point that his colleague has already addressed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Standing Order 34 is the one which we seek to invoke.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will deal with that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you. I hope you do because it is not about answering questions; it is the facility to ask because a Minister who appears on "Morning Ireland"-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----can be questioned by everyone in the media but cannot be questioned by anyone in this House. That shows the absurdity of the situation. I ask the Taoiseach about the business of reforming the terms of reference of the Dáil because it is bizarre and absurd that Ministers can answer questions on "Morning Ireland" and other media but cannot answer Deputies' questions. It makes no sense.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to proceed. I am looking into the question.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We had 14 years of it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the context of the amendments to Standing Orders, which I understand the Taoiseach is promoting, and the changes to the committee system, will he ensure there will be genuine consultation between all the parties? There has been no meaningful consultation thus far between the Whips on these important issues and the sense we are getting is that the Government intends to use its large majority to ram through changes to the committee system and Standing Orders. I hope that is not the case but it is certainly the sense we are getting.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want to answer the Deputy directly. There will be meaningful consultations with the Members of this House. I speak with experience of this matter. The first question from the Deputy that I answered was about changing the way we do business in this Chamber to reflect the Ireland of 2011 and the right of every Deputy to contribute and have his or her say. The Whips will be meeting this week to start a real consultative process on changing Standing Orders and the way we do business. Deputies can take it from me that the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, which is under the direction of the Ceann Comhairle has an interest in this. I would like to see committee proceedings being covered by an Oireachtas channel so that the people of the country can see their elected representatives dealing with issues that are relevant to committees and the personnel who attend them. In the context of transparency and accountability, a serious issue arises that needs to be addressed.
I would be more than willing to receive Deputy Martin's proposals on Dáil reform, unlike when he sat on this side of the House. Time and again we made proposals on changing it and making it more effective but it was like water off a duck's back to the then Chief Whip and whoever stood here.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that while this Government might have the strongest majority in the history of the State, there will be genuine consultation but there will also be a conclusion and a decision in respect of making this place more relevant to the needs of the people and the Deputies who are elected here.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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They are like Punch and Judy over there.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome that commitment and I would like to see it delivered shortly.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I ask whether the Government has made a decision on the scheduling of Report Stage of the Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010. There is considerable interest in this important legislation, which was one of the two Bills prioritised on the first week of the new Dáil. We have received no indication as of yet when Report Stage will present and I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the matter.
In a reply issued to me last week, the Minister for Health and Children stated that the Government is committed to a review of the Mental Health Act 2001 and indicated that the review would be influenced, guided and formed by human rights standards, which I welcomed. The list of proposed legislation which was circulated last week makes reference to the mental health (amendment) Bill. Is it the intention to proceed with that Bill, which was described as technical in nature, or is the Government holding back on the review of the 2001 Act? I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the intentions of the Government and the Department of Health and Children in this regard.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his questions. The Nurses and Midwives Bill will be discussed at the Whips' meeting at 5 p.m. tomorrow and the schedule for taking it can be agreed then. It is expected that the mental health (amendment) Bill will be taken in 2011. It comprises 17 heads and it is being introduced to make technical amendments to the Mental Health Act 2001, which are necessary to correct drafting errors, are mandated by court rulings or are desirable in the interest of clarity.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to clarify the issue, with the Ceann Comhairle's indulgence.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Last week the Minister indicated that a review would be conducted of the 2001 Act. I note some confusion because if we are to proceed with the mental health (amendment) Bill where does the review kick in? Will it be held off until after the review?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure about the clarification of the word "review". The Chief Whip's report on the legislative programme clearly indicates that the mental health (amendment) Bill will be taken in 2011. A Seanad Bill, the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill 2008, was also published and is due to be taken on Second Stage in the Dáil. This is a matter which the Deputy can usefully raise at the Whips' meeting.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Only one week ago, it was announced in regard to the legislative programme that tackling the jobs crisis is the Government's top priority and that it will shortly publish finance legislation to stimulate job creation. If we are to reflect the Ireland of 2011, as the Taoiseach stated, why are we not having an emergency debate on today's shocking announcement that 2,000 workers are to be made redundant in Allied Irish Bank? These are not the spivs and speculators who caused this crisis; they are ordinary workers. When will the Government come forward with emergency finance legislation with regard to jobs? Only two weeks after it was announced that €24 billion of taxpayers' money would go into the banks, their response was to push the numbers unemployed closer to 500,000.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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How does the Taoiseach respond to that?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I respond by stating, as I stated last week, that the Government will bring forward its jobs initiative before the end of May and it will be announced in the House, where it should be announced and unlike what happened on other occasions. That will be a demonstration of seriousness, in parallel with making decisions on sorting out the banking sector which were left on the long finger for far too long, in order to bring about some restoration of confidence. It will not provide all the answers to the more than 440,000 people, or 14% of the workforce, who are out of work.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is hardly a good start to put 2,000 workers on the dole.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a most serious position but there is no point in running away from it. We have to face it down and one way we will restore confidence and hope is by providing a national initiative in terms of stimulating our own economy.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That will be announced in this House by the Minister for Finance.
Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, Deputy Noonan, previously stated in the House that the finance (No. 2) Bill 2011, which will give legal effect to the jobs initiative to which the Taoiseach referred, will be budget neutral and will therefore include compensatory measures. Can the Taoiseach confirm that in order to fund a reduction in VAT and employer PRSI, we will face further spending cuts or tax increases in the summer to fund the jobs initiative?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The jobs initiative Bill will have to be approved by the troika but it indicated when we met it before Christmas that sectors of the IMF-EU deal could be transposed provided they were revenue neutral, and that will be the case. This is not a budget in the sense of proposing new taxes. Adjustments will be made from the internal Votes of Departments.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Given the devastating announcement that 2,000 jobs are to be lost in Allied Irish Bank, an institution which is 92.8% owned by the Government and which we have bailed out -----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry Deputy, this is the Order of Business.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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----- to the tune of €20.5 billion, are we not going to have an emergency debate on those job losses and the fact that they are being visited on ordinary workers while, for example, the CEO of that bank is reported as earning €500,000 per year? Are we going to discuss the devastating consequences for the workers concerned?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is time being given for a debate?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are devastating consequences. Clearly, there are also issues of governance in the banks which need to, and will, be addressed. Obviously, this is a matter of the most serious concern to the 2,000 workers, the vast majority of whom had neither hand, act nor part, or who were not involved in any way, in the crisis inflicted on the country. This is a matter where the persons involved should engage in extensive consultation with those workers.
I advise the Deputy to raise this serious matter at the Whips' meeting which will take place tomorrow. We can make arrangements to have a debate about it, if that is agreeable. I have no objection to that at all.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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In view of the fact the Government owns in excess of 90% of AIB, will it use its position as the major shareholder to ensure there are no compulsory redundancies?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a matter for the Order of Business but for when the debate takes place tomorrow.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will include that in the debate.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I asked a question last week of the Minister in regard to the situation of Coillte. I was told it would amalgamate with Bord na Móna and remain in State ownership. However, a senior Minister said on radio this morning that the Government intended to sell off the mature forestry. Will it be sold off to speculators-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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-----or will it remain in State ownership?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy tables a question to the Minister-----
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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We deserve an answer to that question. There are two conflicting reports from the Minister.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy tables a question, he will get a full answer.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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We deserve an answer. I have asked the Taoiseach a question.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not on the Order of Business.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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What does he intend-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not on the Order of Business.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Is legislation being brought forward to do that?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there legislation promised in this area?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government is committed not to sell Coillte but to amalgamate it with Bord na Móna.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Jonathan O'Brien.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister, Deputy Coveney, said this morning that the Government was selling off the majority-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Jonathan O'Brien.
Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I notice the mental capacity Bill is being put back to late September or early October. As the Taoiseach will be aware, it was already put back by the previous Government. It is a key piece of legislation providing for the wardship system. With his massive majority, of which the Taoiseach reminds us every day, can he bring it forward to commence before the summer recess?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry but I did not hear the question.
Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to the mental capacity Bill.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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One of the things I have tried to do with the parliamentary section is when a commitment is made to bring forward a Bill that it actually happens and that we do not have lists of Bills which are named to be produced at a certain time but which never happens. Let us get a little focus on this. The Bill is scheduled for later in the year. I do not know the position on bringing it forward to an earlier time but I am sure the Minister of State with responsibility will look at that and will let the Deputy know.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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The animal health and welfare Bill is listed on the legislative programme. That Bill is long anticipated and updates existing legislation in the area of animal health and welfare. When will it be published and taken in the House?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no date listed for that Bill but the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is hopeful that it can be produced before the summer.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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On the Finance (No. 2) Bill, as a previous speaker said, the Minister for Finance informed me it would be cost neutral and that counterbalancing measures would be brought forward. After having his knuckles rapped by the IMF at the weekend, the Taoiseach-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind the Deputy this is the Order of Business. Has the Deputy a question about promised legislation?
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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The promised legislation is the Finance (No. 2) Bill. After having his knuckles rapped by the IMF-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not having a debate on that.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----in regard to the budgetary deficit and given the fact the fiscal parameters to which the Taoiseach has agreed adhere-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What does the Deputy want to know about the Bill?
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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This is in regard to the legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It may be but the Deputy may not order a debate at this time. This is the Order of Business which is about promised legislation and when it is due.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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This is promised legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I think the Taoiseach has already answered that question.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Let me ask the question in order that Taoiseach can answer it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. The Deputy cannot make statements.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to promised legislation. It is not a statement but a question. Given the fact this Government has agreed to stay within the fiscal parameters laid down which were based on 405,000 unemployed,-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is totally out of order.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----a figure we are now exceeding with average unemployment exceeding by 37,000 per month,-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should not abuse-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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----will the Finance (No. 2) Bill be cost neutral or will this be another austerity budget-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not allowed on the Order Business.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----introduced by this Government-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not allowed on the Order Business.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----to hike up taxes and cut spending on the most vulnerable and weakest in society? Will it be cost neutral or has there been a change in policy after the meeting with the IMF?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy please resume his seat? Taoiseach, we are not debating this Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We just want to know when it is being taken.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I respect the Ceann Comhairle's authority. I think Deputy Doherty got his knuckles rapped by the IMF in a couple of the contributions I heard from it in respect of his proposals. I advise him to await and debate the constructive suggestions and proposals that will be in the Government's jobs initiative. As I said, he will have it before the end of May.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Will it be cost neutral?
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Will legislation be considered-----
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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-----in regard to debt relief for mortgage holders given that we have just had the first interest rate increase and that there are probably more coming down the tracks? There are huge problems coming down the tracks for many people, especially for those who bought property between 2004 and 2008 who will not have a hope of paying their mortgages. Will the Government consider-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not on the Order of Business.
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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-----relief for mortgage holders?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is in regard to promised legislation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware, the Government is considering a number of proposals in respect of mortgage holders as agreed in the programme for national recovery. They include increasing the mortgage interest relief to 30% for first-time buyers who bought between 2004 and 2008; directing any mortgage provider in receipt of State support to present Government with a plan on how it intends to cut its costs over and above existing plans in a manner that would be fair and sufficient to forego a 25 basis point increase in its variable mortgage rate; introducing a two year moratorium on repossessions of modest family homes in order that people can be assured that the roof will not be taken from over their heads where they are making an honest effort to meet their repayments; and fast tracking bankruptcy reform which is so completely outdated that it is necessary to do this as a matter of urgency and converting the Money Advice and Budgeting Service into a strengthened personal debt management agency. The Minister for Finance will bring forward a number of proposals shortly in that regard.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the interest rates be passed on to the mortgage holders? "Yes" or "" No". That is what the Government promised and committed to.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not going to promise here.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was very categoric that the Government would prevent the State supported banks from passing interest rate increases to mortgage holders.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not a debate.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked this question earlier but I did not get a reply.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry but this is not a debate.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is part of a package where the Government made it clear that banks should be required to reduce their cost base in order to ease the burden for borrowers and mortgage holders.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government said it would prevent them from passing them on.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Noel Harrington.
Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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When will the sea-fisheries legislation to allow for the decriminalisation of minor sea-fisheries be introduced?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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It is promised in the legislative programme.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have a date for it. It is an important but minor Bill and we are committed to bringing it forward.