Dáil debates
Thursday, 25 November 2010
Other Questions
Local Government Efficiency
4:00 pm
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Heritage and Local Government the recommendations outlined in the Local Government Efficiency Review Group that he will implement; the reasons for not implementing rejected recommendations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44291/10]
Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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Question 49: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Heritage and Local Government the progress made in implementing the Report of the Local Government Efficiency Review Group; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44381/10]
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I propose to take Question Nos. 7 and 49 together.
The findings and recommendations of the report of the independent local government efficiency review group are for consideration by the Government in the appropriate policy and financial contexts. I propose shortly to establish an implementation group with an independent chairperson to oversee implementation of relevant recommendations in line with Government decisions. The group's terms of reference will generally set out the recommendations to be covered by it and those which are matters for the Government to determine. This group will also build on the extensive efficiencies already achieved by local authorities over the past two years or so.
In the meantime, I have taken action to progress implementation of certain recommendations. In this context I have recently established a group, chaired by Mr. Pat McLoughlin who also chaired the efficiency review group, to carry out a review of the staffing complement and number of senior managers in Dublin City Council. I have asked the Dublin review group to report within six months with their recommendations on the actions to be taken to reduce the staffing complement. Similar arrangements will be put in place in respect of Cork City Council.
Specific measures to modernise local government are also under way in parallel with the efficiency review group's recommendations. These include implementation of the transforming public services programme and the Croke Park agreement in local authorities in areas such as shared services, HR, ICT and procurement. A directly elected mayor for Dublin, the legislation for which is currently before Dáil Éireann, will lead and promote efficiency in the Dublin region. A dedicated Cabinet committee has been engaged in finalising the policy decisions for inclusion in the White Paper on Local Government. A more efficient local government system will be a core objective of the White Paper. I am satisfied that these measures represent a comprehensive and targeted approach to achieving further efficiencies in local government.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has given us some indication about another set of committees he is establishing to make decisions. He has a group called the local government efficiency review group chaired by Mr. McLoughlin and he has recommendations. Why does he not seek to implement them rather than set up another group? Why must he sideline all his actions, which are important in terms of local government, to another implementation group in order to slow down the delivery of the recommendations of the review group?
The Minister promised us electoral reform measures in 2008 but we have not yet seen them. He also promised a White Paper on Local Government which we have not yet seen. He has committees sitting and reports coming in which are gathering dust.
With respect, all we hear is that the Minister will not make a decision but will send it off to another review group or implementation group and that he is one step away from executing the decisions.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Each time we make decisions, Fine Gael objects to them. That is the problem.
Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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What decision has the Minister made?
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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There is the recommendation to implement the manager for two county-city councils.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Fine Gael agrees with that.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is in the Fine Gael policy document, Reinventing Government. It endorses this specific proposal. When I met Fine Gael councillors recently, they objected out of hand-----
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Green Party has only three councillors, so it would not have anyone to tell it anything.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Fine Gael has lots of them and they all object-----
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will not make a decision.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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As far as I can see, the Deputy's party is one of blockers.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's party is one of bloggers, twitters and twits.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy's party was in government for years. Did it never dawn on the party that we needed water charges?
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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That is approximately 15 years from a total of 80 years.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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We have introduced water charges fairly.
Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Nonsense, it will never be implemented.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is in the four year plan. It is all there. We have also introduced a charge on second homes, which should have been done years ago.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Answer the question that was asked.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Those have all been put in place.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Minister to answer.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I supported the Minister on both of the issues.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister to reply.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I recall the Deputy sending out scaremongering press releases at the time when I tried to discuss the issue with Fine Gael Senators.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Minister is conscious of those. He is not too bad with the press releases himself.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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That is the way he acts. All the recommendations are under consideration.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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They are under consideration.
Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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They will be kicked to touch.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have already outlined those which have been implemented. We will continue to implement them and take the brave decisions we have taken before.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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They are brave all right. Is the Minister ashamed of the state of the country as a result of his bravery? It has brought the country to a standstill.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The party across the way has indicated it will renegotiate the minimum wage.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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That is nonsensical as this was the first demand by Commissioner Ollie Rehn and others. It had to be in the plan.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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That is where the Government failed.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy's party will not do it.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has failed.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is all talk over there and no action.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister and his Government have failed.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The Minister's response was so broad-ranging it brought me into a number of different zones.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should not exacerbate the problem by broadening the question.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I will not. Will the Minister restate the last comment, which I found interesting, that the reduction of the minimum wage came about on the insistence of Commissioner Ollie Rehn.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Yes, it was one of the things he said.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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That is the Government's failure.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not really relevant to the question on the Order Paper.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It is very relevant to people outside the House, given that employers I spoke to were not seeking it. They sought reform of the JLC.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should concentrate on the subject matter in the questions.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I will give the Minister a certain degree of flexibility on the matter. When he announced the Green Paper a number of years ago, the McCarthy report and the local government efficiency review group followed. Ultimately, the position remains the same and question is where the structure of local government lies. As the Minister is well aware, the structure is laid out by the terms of funding and how those structures are applied.
Where is the White Paper on local government? There were two significant reports in the McCarthy report and the local government efficiency review group report and the Minister will have taken cognisance of both of those in the move from a Green Paper to a White Paper. Will we see the White Paper before Christmas?
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I can assure the Deputy that he will see it. The problem is we have had so many different initiatives to put in place. For example, yesterday the four year plan was published with significant proposals relating to funding for local government, including the local charge. All that must be consistent with the White Paper. We will now proceed with the White Paper, which will include those very important revenue raising powers for local authorities.
For the first time we will be in a position where local authorities will be self-financing. I have always felt that 1977 was a crucial election because local government was emasculated and it has not properly recovered since. There has been an erosion in the powers of local councillors, greater powers for managers and it will take some time to recover from that. Similarly, revenue raising powers were gone and there was a concentration on commercial rates and the local government fund. If these powers are not in place there is no local government but local administration instead. That is the emphasis of the Green Paper and it will be the emphasis of the White Paper.
There have been a number of initiatives in this respect. The Bill relating to the Dublin mayoralty is going through the House currently and that is a vital step in the right direction in revitalising local Government in this country. We have never had a directly elected mayor in this country and it is about time we had. It is about time for us to have greater powers at local level. Over the past number of years I have noticed that managers are becoming ever more powerful in this country and as a result, local councillors feel they must develop a relationship with the manager to get things done so they do not rock the boat too much. It is happening on an increasing basis.