Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 33: To ask the Minister for Social Protection the number of persons claiming rent supplement for more than 18 months for each of the past three years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43941/10]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The purpose of the rent supplement scheme is to provide short-term support to eligible people living in private rented accommodation whose means are insufficient to meet their accommodation costs and who do not have accommodation available to them from any other source. The overall aim is to provide short-term assistance, and not to act as an alternative to the other social housing schemes operated by the Exchequer. There are currently more than 96,400 tenants benefiting from a rent supplement payment - an increase of 62% since the end of 2007. More than 44,500 have been in payment for 18 months or more. At the end of 2007 there were 32,123 rent supplement recipients who were in payment for 18 months and while the number decreased to 31,667 at the end of 2008 it increased again to 35,133 at the end of 2009.

The rental accommodation scheme, RAS, which was introduced in 2004, gives local authorities specific responsibility for meeting the longer term housing needs of people receiving rent supplement for 18 months or more. Details of these cases are notified regularly by the Department to the local authorities through the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Local authorities meet the housing needs of these individuals through a range of approaches including the traditional social housing, the voluntary housing sector and, in particular, the RAS. Latest figures from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government show that a total of 30,008 transfers from rent supplement to local authorities have occurred since 2005: 16,696 rent supplement recipients to RAS and a further 13,312 recipients to other social housing options.

It is accepted that progress on RAS was initially slower than expected. However the pace of delivery has improved significantly. In total, 14,000 recipients were transferred to RAS and social housing in 2008 and 2009; achieving targets set for RAS transfers for these years. The target established for 2010 is for a further 8,000 rent supplement tenants to be provided with a housing solution by local authorities.

In consultation with the Department, the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government has approved a number of pilot programmes in different local authorities to increase the flow of transfers. These include allowing applicants for RAS to seek out their own properties which, subject to compliance with the normal conditions and the agreement of the landlord, may then be taken into the leasing programme. Approved housing bodies under the leasing initiative have also been advised that they can source applicants for social housing support from long-term rent supplement tenancies also.

The Department continues to work closely with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and is represented on a number of RAS implementation groups. The purpose of these groups is to ensure that the RAS meets its objective of catering for those on long-term rent supplementation while enabling rent supplement to return to its original role.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Currently there is a very serious economic crisis in the country. The Minister is correct. We spend between €500 million and €600 million per year on rent allowance. We also have NAMA - through which many thousands of houses are being paid for by the State and the taxpayer. Has the Minister had discussions with the Minister of State with responsibility for housing, Deputy Michael Finneran, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and whatever other agencies deal with NAMA, to try to make some of these houses available to people on rent allowance instead of having the State pay twice, for NAMA and for rent allowance?

The Minister is also correct in regard to the RAS. The local authorities have failed; there is no question about it. They have failed to take people who are getting long-term rent supplement and put them on the RAS. I agree with Deputy Shortall, whose point was correct. There is an anomaly concerning rent allowance that needs to be dealt with in the coming budget in order to encourage people to take up a job on the basis that their rent allowance will not be affected. We cannot have this situation continuing which is giving a bad name to people on rent allowance.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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In that regard, when a person is approved for RAS, even if she or she is not yet in receipt of the allowance, the rules regarding rent supplement change. That is one solution. The solution I put forward must be applied in conjunction with the Minister with responsibility for housing. We need to reform all of this and rent supplement must again become a short-term scheme and any person who is likely to need long-term rental should be transferred to RAS urgently or at least approved for that scheme on an urgent basis. That deals with the poverty trap

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What about NAMA?

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister needs to provide for that.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is a priority question.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am providing for-----

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister needs to transfer the budget to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is a priority question and the Minister may only answer questions posed by the Deputy who submitted the question.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I would love to answer the Deputy's question but I have been overruled by the Chair.

I would have no problem talking to NAMA if I thought it would resolve the issue but what the Deputy will find is that rent supplement is being paid on many of the properties already taken into NAMA. That would not change matters. As the Deputy knows, NAMA transfers loans. Only in cases where a receiver is appointed would NAMA be the actual owner of the property rather than the property being used as a security. I have no problem, however, and I agree with the Deputy. Obviously, if the State owns empty houses they should be filled. That is a matter for discussion but as I understand it at present, there is not the handy answer the Deputy might think.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I must disagree with the Minister. It is only when one walks the streets in Donegal, canvassing, that one sees the vacant estates all over the place. NAMA has many vacant estates and we should seek a way to have such estates made available to the State which is already paying for them

I have another question that I would like the Minister to take up with the Minister of State with responsibility for housing, Deputy Finneran. I believe that the Department of Social Protection should provide the funding for rent allowance but housing should be a matter for local authorities, not for the Department. In my county alone, there are a number of vacant local authority houses which have not been used but, again, are being paid for by the taxpayer. They should be used for rent allowance purposes and made available to people. There are many hundreds of local authority houses. The local authorities are not doing their job. We have to save this money for the taxpayer and these houses should be taken up for use. I ask the Minister to speak to his colleague, the Minister of State about this.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is more appropriate for the Minister of State with responsibility for housing.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is a mix-up between the two.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I have been discussing all these issues with the Minister of State with responsibility for housing and, obviously, NAMA comes up in that context. The idea is worth exploring but I do not think there is a simple answer. When a loan is transferred to NAMA it is the loan rather than the property that is transferred. The property is the collateral. Only in cases where NAMA moves in and the person whose loan is taken over has his or her assets appropriated would the State have direct control of the asset. All these points are looked at on a continuing basis.

Local authority houses provide the answer to this problem. I fully accept the Deputy's points about filling local authority houses and people refusing housing. We have to deal with that issue and it formed part of my discussions with the Minister of State. A second issue is getting local authorities to move much faster on the RAS, putting people onto that scheme or approving people for it, thereby dealing effectively with the poverty trap mentioned by Deputy Shortall.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Much progress has been made.