Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 43: To ask the Minister for Transport if his Department plans any asset sales from within the Dublin Airport Authority to assist paying off its debt; the level of debt now being serviced by the DAA; the strategy planed to reduce airport charges and drive up passenger numbers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42988/10]

Deputies:

The Dublin Airport Authority has statutory responsibility for the operation, management and development of Dublin Airport.

Deputies:

As such, it is responsible for developing a strategy for increasing passenger numbers and I know that it is very active in this regard. It also operates under a clear commercial mandate and is not in receipt of any Exchequer support. Accordingly, issues such as the scale and management of its debt is the sole responsibility of the company and I have no function in these matters

Deputies:

On airport charges, the Commission for Aviation Regulation regulates airport passenger charges levied at Dublin Airport. Again, I have no function in the matter. The Deputy will be aware that the question of any possible sale of State assets is one that is currently being considered by the review group on State assets and liabilities, headed by Mr. Colm McCarthy.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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In the light of terminal two, T2, being opened on Friday, will the Minister say whether he considers it is value for money to open a terminal that has cost somewhere between €600 million and €700 million, at a time when passenger numbers going through Dublin this year will be less than 18 million, and each terminal has the capacity of up to 15 million?

I understand this was a long-term investment committed to at a time when passenger numbers were on the rise, and it is easy to look at these figures in hindsight. I should like to ask the Minister about an area that is his responsibility, that is, aviation policy generally. Does he believe it is appropriate that there is no competition between airports in Ireland and that one State-owned company is managing the country's three main airports at a time when passenger numbers over the past two years have fallen by almost 30%, despite the fact that in most European countries passenger numbers are increasing? In France, Italy, Portugal, Sweden, Germany, Spain and Finland passenger numbers have increased-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is giving information.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is the context of the question.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is required to eventually put a question.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have already asked two or three questions-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Exactly.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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-----and I am just finishing the last one, if that is all right.

In the context of passenger numbers increasing in the vast majority of European countries, does he consider that it is time the Government had a fundamental review of aviation policy in Ireland, to increase passenger numbers?

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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As regards the Deputy's first question about value for money, the cost of the terminal two building is just over €300 million. The figure of just over €600 million that he quoted relates to ancillary services and buildings that were provided at the airport prior to T2 arriving on the scene at all. I regard it as value for money. The Deputy rightly and fairly has indicated that this decision was made in 2005 or thereabouts when passenger figures were increasing exponentially at Dublin Airport, and indeed at the other airports around the country. The projections at that stage, before any economic downturn, indicated that the terminal was needed.

I can remember that in my predecessor's time at every Question Time there were at least one or two questions about the delays at Dublin Airport, and about getting through security, as well as the delays being faced by people when collecting their baggage on returning from holidays and so on. There was no question that there was a need to put new facilities in place, and they will be there, as in fairness, the Deputy has acknowledged.

As regards competition in airports in Ireland, the Deputy will be aware that the State Airports Act was put in place in 2004 to separate the three main airports, to allow them to compete. Due to the downturn in the aviation sector in 2008-09, the airports requested me to defer a final decision on that until next year, which I will do. In light of the situation next year, depending on passenger numbers etc., we shall review that in consultation with the airports.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have two specific questions. Could the Minister explain why the Government did not follow independent advice, when the building of a second terminal at Dublin Airport was being planned, to have it built and operated by an operator independent of the Dublin Airport Authority? Has the Government considered the option of either leasing or selling one of the terminals at Dublin Airport, in order to have competition between the two terminals and to get prices down and services up?

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government attempted to follow the independent advice the Deputy has mentioned. In so far as we could we went to the stage of actually tendering for an operator for services at the terminal. We had to abandon the tendering process, specifically because we could not get a suitable tender to provide the services there.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is true, and I went through the process myself. We got independent advisers to go through the whole tendering process, which was the subject of questions in the House before. The current position is to the effect that the DAA will now operate that terminal. It has a four-year period in which it can operate it. As we come to the end of that period we shall establish what the market conditions are and determine whether it is possible for the terminal to be operated, independently.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Question 44: To ask the Minister for Transport if he will outline the range of airport charges applied to air travel here at present; if he has satisfied himself that these charges are properly applied by the airlines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43024/10]

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Commission for Aviation Regulation is responsible for the regulation of airport charges at Dublin Airport and I have no function with regard to their determination or application.

Airport charges at Cork and Shannon Airports are set by those airport authorities and again I have no responsibility as to how they are applied. Similarly, airport charges at the six regional airports, which are owned and operated independently, are a matter for each airport concerned.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Given that Dublin Airport Authority will have a substantial bill, namely, the €300 million he mentioned as well as other costs, does the Minister not consider it strange that the National Consumer Agency report last week indicated that the airlines were ripping off the consumer to the tune of €28 million annually, by refusing to refund the taxes, charges and administrative funds while not refunding cancellations, as well? This means a healthy sum of money is being lost, both to the DAA and perhaps, in some cases to the Exchequer. Has the Minister any plans to ensure that the airports and airport charges are recouped by the airport authorities so that we do not see "Rip-off Ireland" continuing into the recession, with the airlines simply taking all that money for themselves?

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Again, the question the Deputy raises is one specifically for the airport authorities and perhaps for the Department of Finance, as regards the airport taxes that are paid and subsequently not transferred to the appropriate authorities. I did not have any real notice that this was the intent of the question, but I shall raise it with Dublin Airport Authority and attempt to ascertain what action it is taking to ensure that it does not incur revenue losses in circumstances such as these.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his reply, but I would have thought this matter was more appropriate to the Minister since he is responsible for the overall policy. It would seem appropriate to have a code of conduct operating in the aviation industry in relation to refund of charges that are appropriate to the authority itself and appropriate to the Government if somebody has cancelled or there is a no show. Some airlines have their own adiministrative charges which incorporate this area and some make one level of return and others make none. There is no policy. The Minister should impose policy in this area and it is appropriate that we have a code of conduct that extends to all airlines. The sum of €28 million is a sizeable sum. The National Consumer Agency has determined that the only way it can deal with this matter is to go to the High Court. I would like the Minister to intervene in this matter.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a policy in that anyone who owes taxes to the State must pay them. Deputy Costello correctly pointed out that there are varying practices in the airlines. One method some airlines use to avoid paying taxes is to say that the administrative charge in respect of refunding money to passengers equals the amount of tax outstanding.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is a sleight of hand.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I agree. The National Consumer Agency, which is a Government agency, has taken up the matter and is seeking a determination in that regard from the High Court. It is hoped the outcome will be positive and will clarify the situation.