Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 28: To ask the Minister for Justice and Law Reform if he has satisfied himself that protocols agreed with banks in respect of tiger kidnapping are operating satisfactorily; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28668/10]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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These so-called "tiger" kidnappings are a particularly despicable crime. The abduction and false imprisonment of a person's family or friends to coerce him or her into assisting with a robbery is a particularly pernicious type of crime. I feel nothing but contempt for those responsible and I know this feeling is shared by Members of the House and the wider public. As the most recent incident is the subject of an active and ongoing Garda investigation and an individual has been brought before the court in connection with it, we are all constrained in what we can say.

There are agreed response procedures in place for dealing with such incidents. Regular meetings are held between the Garda Síochána and financial institutions to discuss bank security issues and in particular tiger kidnapping prevention and response protocols. While the Garda Síochána does not as a matter of policy and security disclose the protocols, they typically include the establishment of crisis management teams and protocols designed primarily to ensure the safe return of those persons held captive during such incidents and thereafter to secure the arrests and prosecution of the culprits involved. Advice on personal security for staff members and on systems and processes in place for the conveyance, storage and dispersal of cash is provided on an ongoing basis and is subject of regular review.

It is incumbent upon the banks and financial institutions to do everything possible to counter these robberies. This means the protocols must be followed and systems put in place to ensure that, for example, it is not possible for employees who have been placed under terrible duress to be in a position to access large amounts of cash. I do not blame employees who are acting under such duress. Their safety and that of their families and friends is paramount. This is also the Garda priority and the safety of people can best be assured by involving the Garda as quickly as possible when these incidents take place. When the protocols are followed the Garda is given a great advantage in its efforts to foil these crimes and arrest those responsible. This has been proven to be the case time and again. It is only by rendering these robberies unsuccessful that we will stop them taking place and thereby protect innocent employees and their loved ones from being caught up in them in the future.

I assure the House that the Garda is totally focused in combating this form of criminality as part of the concerted efforts being made to tackle organised criminal gangs. New legislation has been put in place to provide for covert surveillance evidence to be used in court. I have also introduced legislation which specifically targets the organised criminal gangs responsible for these reprehensible crimes. While obviously I cannot go into detail about ongoing Garda investigations, I assure the House that the Garda has been taking action under the legislation and we will see the fruits of this as it builds up cases against the organised crime gangs, including those involved in tiger kidnappings.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I join the Minister in offering direct condemnation of the latest tiger kidnappings in the State, including one which occurred most recently. Together, they add up to a serious problem as these despicable acts are occurring at a particularly frightening frequency. What role does the Minister see for himself in addressing the matter of tiger kidnappings?

While I do not wish to comment on any particular case or the specifics of the protocols, I put it to the Minister that his response to date has been somewhat less than meaningful in so far as a round of meetings takes place, the contents or circumstances of which remain outside the public domain and unknown. While I do not expect the House to discuss to any great extent the protocols in place, it is clear they are not working. What is the Minister's role in ensuring the protocols are sufficiently robust? What steps can be taken to ensure compliance with them?

I do not believe these vicious tiger kidnap robberies are entirely preventable given the hold on society of organised crime and gangs, particularly in certain areas. However, the Minister's role must be more than one of a passive bystander engaged in rounds of meetings that seemingly are not working or contributing towards preventing these most despicable acts.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the Deputy, as an Opposition spokesperson, must try to blame the Minister. My predecessors and I have provided resources and legislation in this area and in recent days the Garda Commissioner has indicated he has all the resources he requires.

As I stated, these types of kidnappings are pernicious crimes. Where the protocols have been adhered to, however, they have been successful in so far as the crime has been prevented and the safety of the bank employees concerned, as well as that of members of their families or others involved in the kidnapping, has been protected. The protection of human life is the foremost priority.

The number of attacks on cash in transit vans has reduced substantially as a result of the introduction of new procedures and protocols which have effectively negated any profit criminals could make from such crimes. Exactly the same principle applies in the case of tiger robberies. It needs to be proven over time that such crimes are unsuccessful. The modus operandi of the banks must include checks and balances to prevent one or perhaps two individuals in a branch having access to large amounts of money. They must also provide proper training and guidance for staff - I understand this is being done - to ensure they fully understand that the protocols are in place for their own protection. This will ensure tiger kidnappings are not replicated over an extended period.

Unfortunately, every time a tiger kidnapping is successful, it is sends out a negative signal to the public and a positive signal to the criminals who believe carrying out such crimes has a benefit. If we can establish a fool-proof system in which the protocols and systems in the banks are such that this cannot happen, a strong message will go out to criminals that this is not a lucrative crime. Obviously, they will then try to find another niche.

One is dealing with human beings and given the difficulties individuals and families are placed under, one will always have a weak link, as it were, in these types of circumstances. I have spent much time with the Garda Síochána in this regard and I have had discussions with the banks and Irish Bank Officials Association, which has asked me for another meeting, to which I will agree. I have also had a significant number of meetings recently with various interests which believe they have the wherewithal to assist in this area. I assure the Deputy that the Government will ensure the Garda has all the resources it requires to stamp out this crime.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister agree that the net issue is the ease with which criminals can access cash, whether by way of tiger kidnappings, ATM cash robberies or cash in transit heists? As this money is insured in any event, protocols agreed can be cast aside with some ease. I ask the Minister to ensure that efforts are made to reduce the circumstances under which large volumes of cash are carried. We must look to international best practice whereby the issues of carriage of cash in vans, the ease with which cash can be removed from ATMs and tiger kidnappings have by and large been dealt with successfully by a co-ordinated effort which is not under way here - at least there does not appear to be any evidence to suggest that.

The Minister mentioned that he hopes to meet representatives of the bank officials shortly. I ask him to impress on the bankers the need to ensure proper and adequate training. The level of training that appears to be available to bank officials and those handling cash does not give rise to confidence. Would the Minister agree that banks have a duty of care to their employees to ensure that every available training opportunity is employed? That training does not seem to be happening and verbal directions on protocols are wholly insufficient to deal with this most dangerous circumstance where life and limb are under threat. Unless the Minister takes an initiative in this regard through ensuring that all the modern technological advances are employed to deal with cash in transit and to ensure that there is proper and adequate staff training up to international best practice, unfortunately gangland criminal operators and organised crime bosses will continue to engage in the type of activity we have witnessed because of the ease with which cash can be taken.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Following discussions I had with the banks and the Garda Síochána as a result of one or two high-profile so-called tiger kidnapping events, which were successful from the criminals' point view last year, there was a significant emphasis by the Garda Síochána and the banks on further training. These gangs have to a certain extent moved down the employment ladder in the banks in that heretofore they targeted mainly senior management but are now moving down. That begs a valid question. Obviously the banks have a significant responsibility in ensuring that people to a certain extent lower down in the chain of command in the banks do not have an opportunity to get their hands on large amounts of money. The banks have done work in that regard and significantly there have been a number of very successful recent operations from the Garda point of view. I must stress again that in those recent successes the protocols were followed and the Garda was given the opportunity of being aware what was going on before any money left the bank. In any of the unsuccessful operations, in the initial phases the Garda was given late notice and the money had gone from the bank before it was notified, which is the difficulty. I do not want to go into too much detail on the use of the latest technological equipment that might be used in this respect, which the Garda and the banks are investigating.