Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. a11, motion re membership of committees; No. 4, Competition (Amendment) Bill 2010 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 3, Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. a11 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 76, motion re ministerial pensions (resumed), to be taken after the Order of Business and, if not previously concluded, to be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a11 without debate agreed to?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No. Last Tuesday, the Fine Gael Party Whip, Deputy Kehoe, requested an opportunity to have statements in the House from the Minister for Finance on behalf of the Government in respect of Ireland's contribution to and participation in the bilateral loan scheme for the people of Greece. As we speak, there is great tension across Greece as its Parliament debates the austerity programme that will have to be implemented in some measure if the country is to abide by the rules and regulations.

Tomorrow, at a meeting of the Heads of Government of the countries of the eurozone, momentous decisions will be made in respect of the transfer of significant moneys from these countries to Greece to deal with its original loans, in particular, those from French and German banks. This requires a discussion of the terms, conditions and guarantees for the repayment of moneys to be transferred from Ireland to Greece. For three days, the Government has refused to explain to the House the terms, conditions and opportunities for repayment which will come out of tomorrow's meeting.

This is the start of a long and dangerous process for the European Union. It is central to the European process that one country support another and, in so doing, this House should have an opportunity to hear from the Minister for Finance what is at stake, how this agreement has been arrived at and its terms and conditions. In that context, I do not accept the Order of Business, as proposed by the Tánaiste.

This is the third day in a row the Government has refused to come to the House to debate these issues. Its refusal is typical of a Government that does not want to debate any issues that are seen to be complex or difficult or that could cause trouble for it. This is a matter for all our people who are represented by Members of this House. It is of considerable import in terms of where Europe and the European Union are headed and it is critical for the countries of the eurozone. I respectfully request that the Tánaiste amend the Order of Business to provide an opportunity for a 90 minute or two hour discussion of this issue in advance of the meeting of eurozone Heads of Government tomorrow at which this momentous decision is to be made.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When this issue was raised on the Order of Business yesterday, I made the point, one on which I agreed with the Taoiseach, that this is a matter of national interest. How this country deals with the crisis in Greece, the contribution we are making to the European assistance being provided to Greece, what is happening in Greece and what happens with the euro have serious consequences for all of us.

We initially asked the Taoiseach when the legislation would be brought in, but he was not able to tell us yesterday other than to say that the Government had not yet approved it. I understand from our own Whip that all Whips were informed yesterday evening that it will be three weeks before it is brought before the House. We asked yesterday for an opportunity to discuss the issue in the House, so that the Minister for Finance could set out the position and that we could respond to it. Deputy Burton has been asking for much more information than that provided to date since the announcement last week of assistance for Greece.

There is a meeting of government leaders tomorrow to discuss these issues. One of the issues to be considered at that meeting is that an independent European rating agency should be established. At the moment, we are in the hands of three ratings agencies, Standard & Poor's, Moody's and Fitch. These are three private companies that have the power, through their ratings, to decide the future and the fortunes of national economies.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are getting away considerably from the proposal on the Order of Business. I have allowed considerable latitude to yourself and Deputy Kenny.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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These agencies have a scurrilous record.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle, I respectfully suggest that you listen to what we are saying. The reason Deputy Kenny and I are opposing the Order of Business-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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To have a full debate on this matter is inappropriate on the Order of Business.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It is the only way we are going to get it.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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We cannot get it any other way.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Let me start again. The reason the Labour Party is opposing the Order of Business today is because there exists a set of serious economic circumstances in Europe, currently concentrated in Greece, and at the heart of these problems, decisions are being made by private ratings agencies that are determining the credit rating of individual countries. The same ratings agencies have a very poor record and have got it wrong repeatedly before. There is a proposal before the EU summit tomorrow to consider the idea of a European independent ratings agency. This House should have the opportunity to discuss that proposal, should know whether our Government will support that idea or not, and whether the Taoiseach will advocate the idea at that summit.

We all want to be helpful to the Government on this issue. This is not something on which we want to have political division. There is a national interest. We want to have an agreed national position on this very important matter, but we can only do that if the Government is prepared to discuss the issue in the House in a mature, reasoned way. So far, there is no proposal for a discussion and the Bill to allow the Government make the contribution to the assistance for Greece will not be presented for three weeks.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with colleagues on the importance of addressing Ireland's position on the proposed rescue package for Greece. However, there is also a pressing matter at home that needs to be addressed by the Minister for Finance in the Chamber. I raised an issue of national importance yesterday under Standing Order 32, namely, the loss of 900 jobs in the Quinn Group affecting people in Cavan, Navan, Blanchardstown, Cork and elsewhere on the island of Ireland.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are going on another tangent now.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am not going anywhere. I am staying with my feet firmly on the ground at home.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is inappropriate for the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We will end up like Greece if we do not pay attention to it. A Cheann Comhairle, you rejected this matter of national importance, namely, the threatened loss of 900 jobs and the potential of further hundreds of job losses in the future. Deputy Crawford raised the issue again this morning under Standing Order 32, yet you rejected it as well. The Government has provided no opportunity to address this very important matter, not only for the workers concerned, their families or their communities, but also the interdependent community and the economy as a whole. If 900 jobs were to be lost in any other situation across this State, the Government would be responding on the floor of this House.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will have to provide for a new arrangement under the Order of Business if this is going to continue.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There is no provision to allow Deputies address important matters such as this. We will not agree to the Order Paper unless the Government indicates now that it is willing to have this matter substantively addressed on the floor of this House, either today or in the coming week at the latest. I ask the Tánaiste, the former Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment - although employment no longer appears on any Department or committee title since the recent reshuffle - to indicate to the House that she will allow an opportunity for us to address the debacle surrounding Quinn Insurance and the consequences for the workers and the economy as a whole. That is a matter we should be addressing in this House.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Following a request from the Greek authorities, the Finance Ministers in Europe agreed to activate a stability package for Greece. That is designed first and foremost to safeguard the financial stability of the EU and Greece. The discussion between the Heads of State tomorrow has to be finalised and as the Taoiseach pointed out in respect of our own legislation, any international agreement must be annexed to our legislation. That international agreement will not be finalised until such time as the Heads of State have completed their deliberations.

There may have been some mix-up in respect of timing with the Whips. The legislation will be coming before the Government on Tuesday, the debate in the House will take place the following week, and in the interim, Department officials and the Minister for Finance will be briefing the relevant spokespersons in the Opposition parties in preparation for that discussion.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is a done deal.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are proceeding on that basis.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When does the Government expect to introduce the Bill to allow for a directly elected mayor for Dublin? What is the position on holding a referendum on children's rights this year? This has been committed to. The all-party Oireachtas committee did a great deal of work on the matter and a proposed wording was agreed. Has the Government decided to hold such a referendum this year? When might we expect to see the legislation? When will the Government bring before the House legislation dealing with head shops?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation on directly elected mayors will be this session. As the Taoiseach indicated yesterday in his response, the matter of the children's rights referendum is with the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews. The Government has not made a final decision. Until such time as the Government has made that decision there will be no determination on when there will be a referendum. The heads of the legislation on head shops will come to Government next week and we will try to get it through as quickly as possible then.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Arising from the Tánaiste's second response, the Government has already committed to having a referendum. The work being done by the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, is to consider the agreed wording proposed by the Oireachtas committee, representative of all parties. Given that the Government has committed to holding a referendum, can we take it that referendum will be held ion 2010 even though the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, is doing his work at the moment in considering the all-party committee's report? This will be a difficult referendum in some respects, but it is committed to and I support it very strongly.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Clearly the Government will make a decision on determining when that referendum should take place. However, as I indicated before - as did the Taoiseach - that matter has not been finalised by the Government yet. We will consider that once the Minister of State has completed his work. It is important for us to move ahead on the basis of what heretofore was an all-party agreement.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Am I right in saying the process is that the Minister of State will report to the Government on his deliberations on the wording of the all-party Oireachtas committee and the Government will then decide whether the referendum should be held this year?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government will make its decision on the appropriate way in which we can progress the matter.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The appropriate way is to determine a date for a referendum and get on with it. However, the Government is afraid to have that referendum along with three by-elections because it is terrified what the electorate will do to it.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are not terrified, but the Deputy might be more terrified than some over here are.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We are not one bit terrified. The Government knows the game is up.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Government is for the chop and that is it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Following on from Deputy Kenny's questions and the answers given by the Tánaiste, I do not understand what the Government is considering. There is all-party agreement on the wording for this referendum. Do I understand from the Tánaiste that the Government is reconsidering the wording of the referendum or is the issue the date for holding the referendum? If it is just the date for holding the referendum, what is the delay if it is not, as Deputy Kenny said, simply that the Government cannot settle on a date for the referendum because if there is a date for the referendum then the by-elections will need to be held and the last place the Government wants to be is before the people in an election contest?

On a related matter, the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children, chaired by Deputy O'Rourke, in its report of 11 September 2008 recommended that there should be legislation dealing with soft information and that legislation should be brought before the Houses of the Oireachtas in "the upcoming parliamentary session" - in other words by the end of 2008. I assume the national vetting bureau Bill is the relevant legislation on the legislative list. According to that list the heads of that Bill have not even been approved by the Government yet. What is delaying the preparation of the legislation that was promised in 2008 and was considered to be urgent? When will it be before the House?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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All in this House agree that a constitutional amendment on children's rights should be seen as being beyond politics.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We raised that three years ago.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We should leave it there. A considerable amount of work was done my many Members of this House and there has been much deliberation. On that basis we want to proceed-----

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Why has the Government not proceeded?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----to ensure that the proper parameters are set. As the Deputy knows we need to establish a commission and other work needs to be done. That work is being progressed by the Minister of State and I will try to get a further update on a timeframe as the question has been asked twice this week.

The national vetting bureau Bill is complex legislation. It is being worked on as a priority with a view to getting the heads to the Government as quickly as possible.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Is the Government considering the wording of the referendum or the date? I thought the wording was agreed.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has not considered the matter, people are not listening.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It has been going on for years.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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This matter has not been finalised by the Government.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy O'Rourke finalised it last year.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are progressing with the Minister of State. There was an initial discussion arising from the work that was carried out by the committee and the Minister of State has been asked to set up the necessary requirements.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State was on the committee.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is being worked on and when he has completed that work it will come back to Government and decision will be made on a date.

This is not Question Time.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is part of the problem we have on the Order of Business.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Tánaiste just said the Minister of State has been asked to set up the necessary requirements. I do not understand that. For a referendum to be held, the Government must prepare a Bill.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot initiate a debate on this point on the Order of Business, it is inappropriate.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am not initiating a debate, I am trying to find out the whereabouts of promised legislation, as I am entitled to do.

The Government has promised a referendum on the rights of children and a wording has been agreed on an all-party basis. The Tánaiste said the Minister of State has been asked to prepare the necessary requirements. The necessary requirement for a referendum is a Bill that is introduced to the House that approves the wording that has been agreed and then the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government sets the date. What is the Minister of State being asked to do? There is a template for this legislation, it is cut and paste. We have had legislation for constitutional amendments before, the Parliamentary Counsel could do this in his sleep. What is the problem?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government is asleep.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is the job of the Parliamentary Counsel.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste's answer is far more suspicious.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have moved on.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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She is saying that the Fianna Fáil members on the all-party Oireachtas committee do not speak on behalf of the Government.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State was on the committee.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is now 11.15 a.m. and we will never get the business of the House dealt with. There are important things to be done. This is the second time in a row, last week and this week-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It will not be the last time either.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----where Deputy Kenny puts his own interpretations that are factually incorrect on what I say.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This happened with the age of consent as well.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has not decided on the date for the referendum. Work on the requisite legislation and the setting up of a commission is in hand, the Minister of State is dealing with the issue. When the Government decides on the date of the referendum it will be more than happy to come to the House and indicate the date thereof.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will it take place in 2010?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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All the members of the committee worked diligently and did a difficult job.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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They want to see the referendum.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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They came together on the basis of what we want to see here. We will progress with the referendum but I am not in a position to give a date today.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Industrious futility.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government will decide the date.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will it be in 2010 or 2011? I am not even asking for a date, just for a year.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must get away from debating these issues on the Order of Business, it is entirely inappropriate.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We are obviously getting away from the referendum on the amendment on the rights of children.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On the matter that has been raised by both of the other Opposition party leaders, I would indicate to the Tánaiste that there should be no fear in progressing the legislation and preparations for a referendum to enshrine children's rights in the Constitution.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is continuing the debate.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I encourage the Government to ensure the whole issue is addressed with some speed. If the Government adopts the wording as presented and unanimously agreed by the committee membership, I cannot see any difficulty in moving speedily to having this matter presented to the electorate this year. That is our expectation and I urge that it be done.

Regarding a matter I raised yesterday, in the terrible throes of the continuing stripping of services within the broad HSE remit-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We spent some considerable time on this matter yesterday.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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For heaven's sake. Will the Ceann Comhairle allow me to finish what I have to ask?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not appropriate on the Order of Business. I can anticipate what the Deputy is going to say and I know it is out of order on the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Ceann Comhairle was born with his finger on the salmon like Fionn Mac Cumhaill. The Minister for Health and Children has not been seen in this House this week. This is hugely important, the continued erosion of the entitlement to health care access of people on medical cards, and I make no apology repeating the point today that there is collective Cabinet responsibility to make that Minister accountable to this House.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to raise this matter with the Minister for Health and Children. The Deputy must resume his seat. This is an abuse of the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Dental services for public patients have been cancelled across the board today and yesterday. It is affecting the Ceann Comhairle's own constituents.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am aware of that.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Now we see a further announcement that 52 beds will be shut in Beaumont Hospital.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should put a question to the Minister for Health and Children, this is the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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This is happening and there is no accountability in this House whatsoever. Does the Ceann Comhairle have any idea where the Minister for Health and Children is?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I will resume my seat but I am making it clear that this Government cannot continue to hide behind the apron of the former leader of the Progressive Democrats, now an Independent Member,-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is abusing the latitude I have afforded him.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and dodge the responsibility of the continued diminution of health services, which rests with the Tánaiste's own party, with Fianna Fáil.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat. I am calling Deputy Fergus O'Dowd.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Transport stated yesterday that CIE had not informed him about the three year delay with the DART interconnector, that is being built on foot of a Government decision.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is out of order on the Order of Business.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It will cost €2 billion and carry up to 100 million passengers when it is built. Who is running the Department of Transport, the Minister for Transport or CIE? Iarnród Éireann has decided to delay the project for three years.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is completely out of order. Even allowing the fact the Deputy is from the same constituency, I cannot allow him to continue.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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This is a Government decision but it is not going ahead.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must find another way to raise it, he should submit it for an Adjournment Debate next week.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Government must be accountable for its decision making. Almost €2 billion has been allocated but CIE has said it will not be spent for three years. Is the Government going to tell CIE to spend the money and build the interconnector or not? Is the Minister in charge or not? What is going on? The Minister has been snubbed by CIE.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must find another way to address this matter, it is not promised legislation.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It relates to the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill and the most important project under Transport 21, which CIE has received money for and it is not now going to build the interconnector.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Is the Tánaiste not going to respond?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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On the same matter, and it is promised legislation under No. 96, Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is completely out of order if he intends to pursue this matter.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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If the Ceann Comhairle allows me to finish I will be very brief and we can move on with the business of the House but if he keeps interrupting we will be here for a lot longer.

Notwithstanding what Deputy O'Dowd has already raised as a serious issue, a Minister who is not in control of his brief, or a semi-State agency that gives two fingers to the people through its representative, the Minister-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can make those points another time.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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-----I want to know the implications this will have for metro north. Will it be delayed as well? Who is in charge in this country? This is one of the core reasons people have lost faith in the Government, there is an ability to govern and to control the semi-State bodies and the people they appoint to them.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not promised legislation, the Deputy will have to raise this matter directly with the Minister for Transport.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I also want to ask about other legislation, related to the issue raised by Deputy Ó Caoláin and the bed closures at Beaumont Hospital, namely, the eligibility for health and personal services Bill. Will the Minister tell us what is the point in having a fair deal that releases people to long-term care so the Government can close down the very beds that are made available? A Member of this House spent several hours in Beaumont last night and was not impressed with the service. I can tell the House it was a Member of the Government.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Elaboration is not necessary.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Can I put it to the Tánaiste-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will have to adjourn the House if I do not get some co-operation.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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-----that the way the Minister for Health and Children gives with one hand while taking away with the other is causing hardship to patients, resulting in longer waits on trolleys, more cancelled operations and more people suffering unnecessarily?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat, he is completely out of order.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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On the same matter-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will come to the Deputy later. I call Deputy Bernard Durkan.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I raised the eligibility Bill yesterday in respect of the erosion of rights of people to dental treatment. They have a right to this. It is the same issue as-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not contemplate having a full-scale debate on these issues every morning on the Order of Business.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The rights of people for health services have been eroded completely by the current Minister.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are several other ways to raise the matter and the Deputy knows this.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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There is a Bill on the Order Paper and some way off, in the distant future, we will ask-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please resume your seat.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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-----why people's rights are being eroded.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume her seat and raise the matter with the Minister for Health and Children.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I ask that the Minister come into the House to talk to Opposition spokespersons because we are increasingly frustrated. We cannot get what we need in our health services.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume her seat or I shall adjourn the House because we cannot have this level of disorder every morning.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I support my colleagues on that issue. Can it be arranged for the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, to appear in the House occasionally for the Order of Business so that Members could address those issues?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Ministers are visitors, like swallows.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not allowed to ask questions of the Minister for Health and Children on the Order of Business. Let us not think of that as a solution.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle if it might be possible to make an appointment with her?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There can be parliamentary questions for the Minister for Health and Children.

Deputies:

She never answers them.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The delivery of health and social services legislation is a matter I have raised, as has every other Member on the Opposition benches in recent months, with as much success as we have in changing the weather. We now must appeal to the Ceann Comhairle to use his influence, as president of this Chamber, to try to ensure that a number of Ministers, who are particularly recalcitrant, come into the House and address the issues they are supposed to address.

I have a question on a piece of legislation, in which the Ceann Comhairle might have an interest, regarding the transposition of various EU directives into Irish law. There are a number of such proposals on the legislative programme now which have been there for some time. I have asked questions about them in the House on the Order of Business. This seems to go on for ever and the Taoiseach gets bored when I ask the questions so I shall ask the following one again.

The publication of the proposal to transpose the EU framework directive on the European evidence warrant for obtaining objects, documents and data for use in criminal proceedings is expected in late 2010. When will that Bill be published? Has it been discussed at Cabinet or has any mention of it been made? Has any discussion taken place as to the possible relevance of-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not need the elaboration. We will make inquiries as to the position regarding the legislation.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am entitled to know what has happened. We keep asking the same questions and keep getting the same-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is not entitled to ask detailed questions on the Order of Business.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am not asking a detailed question. I ask simply what has happened in regard to the issue. That is my first question. The second concerns the postal services Bill, which is similar. It is to transpose EU directive 2008/EC which provides for the completion of the liberalisation of the postal sector in Ireland by 1 January 2010 and the consolidation of all previous postal legislation.

Again, I have tabled questions for the line Minister who refuses to answer them.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has posed the question to the Tánaiste. We will make inquiries-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have not finished.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----about this promised legislation and will see what is the position.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the postal services legislation are being drafted at present. Regarding the first legislation mentioned, I caught only half of what the Deputy asked because of his enthusiasm. However, he answered it himself, saying 2010. I assume that is his answer. I could not catch the rest.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy had a third piece of legislation in mind.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not need a second chance to answer. The Deputy answered for himself.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let us focus on the business in hand.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is an experienced Member of this House and the Ceann Comhairle is a very experienced Member. They should know that we always have an inkling as to the answer but we like to be reassured, occasionally.

I have a question concerning which the Ceann Comhairle might have an interest, namely, the Sea Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction (Fixed Penalty Notice) (Amendment) Bill, amending current legislation to allow the loughs agency to have primacy in Loughs Carlingford and Foyle and to allow for the use of fisheries protection tools in an environmental context.

I believe the Ceann Comhairle knows about that legislation and is watching it very carefully. I ask the Tánaiste when that legislation will be brought into the House. Has it been discussed?

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It is a big issue in County Kildare.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Have the heads been drawn up or are they being drafted at the moment? Are the Government and the Tánaiste fully aware of the wider implications of that legislation?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am acutely aware of that one. There is no date for that piece of legislation.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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As a representative for Longford-Westmeath in the proposed Shannon River basin district, an area which relies on recreational fishing for the tourism industry, I ask the Tánaiste when we may expect the inland fisheries consolidation Bill to be published and brought before the House for debate. As the Tánaiste will know, the tourism industry in the midlands is on its knees as we speak. Fewer visitors are coming to our country. The Government has reneged on promises made a number of months-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will make inquiries for the Deputy.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----and years ago in regard to the development of this valuable industry.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Next year.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste advises this will happen next year.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Is the Tánaiste committed to a debate next week in the House in respect of decisions that will be taken by the Heads of Government at the leaders' meeting in Brussels tomorrow concerning Greece and the financial situation in Europe?

One item for discussion tomorrow concerns not merely a European ratings agency but a supposed agreement by the Heads of Government-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a question for the Minister for Finance.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I believe the Minister for Finance was not able to go to the meeting of Finance Ministers earlier this week.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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His Department will have direct responsibility for this matter.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am sorry. Under the Lisbon treaty there is an obligation on the Taoiseach, as head of Government, to come into the Dáil before he goes to leaders' and governmental meetings and inform the House of the stance the Irish Government proposes to take. That is why the people voted twice in regard to the Lisbon treaty. I ask-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will not reignite the debate on this matter, at this point.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----a very simple question. I want to know what position the Irish Government is taking in regard to hedge funds and private equity regulation within Europe in the context of the frenzy of speculation taking place-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Submit the matter for consideration on the Adjournment this evening.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----against Government bonds and debt in various countries.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot debate it at this stage. We had this matter earlier on the Order of Business and the Deputy knows this because she was present.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am the Labour Party spokesperson on finance. I ask the Minister if she has committed on behalf of the Government to a debate or discussion next week.

I have a second question, which is related, if the Ceann Comhairle will bear with me. I understand it will take at least three weeks to have the legislation regarding Ireland supporting a package for Greece. What is the timeframe for this legislation? Has a constitutional opinion been received from the Attorney General on the implication of such legislation, the powers of the European Union and the Irish Constitution vis-À-vis such an arrangement? These are perfectly reasonable questions about very important legislation.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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They are. However, the Deputy must realise that she cannot ask those detailed questions on the Order of Business.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is not a detailed question.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This applies to her good self and to other Members of the House. The questions should be posed directly to the Minister for Finance.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It concerns the timing of a discussion the Minister seemed to acknowledge and the forthcoming legislation. It is perfectly in order.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is going to the Government on Tuesday and will be debated in this House the following week. As I indicated, the Minister for Finance will brief his colleagues next week in the context of preparation for that legislation.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am sorry. That is not satisfactory. These are some of the most momentous decisions and, basically, we are told nothing.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy received the answer.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It will be two weeks before we have a discussion.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is depriving her party colleague of the floor of the House. I ask her to resume her seat.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What was the Lisbon treaty referendum for?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is irrelevant.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton, resume your seat.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The debate will take place the week after next.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Before he left the House, Deputy Noonan suggested we might have to apply for an order of habeas corpus to have the Minister for Health and Children brought before the House. I support that.

Concerning the referendum announced by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Ahern, on blasphemy, can the Tánaiste tell me whether that will be held in conjunction with the referendum on the rights of the child or will it be held before or after it? Is there a date for this referendum or was it just a stunt by the Minister?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There has not been a decision on that matter.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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So it was just a stunt. That is agreed.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two issues. What oversight exists when a company is awarded a major State contract and does not pay its employees? I refer to a strike at the moment on the M7 construction project.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy sounds like she is going down the road of being out of order.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It comes under the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2009. There are several employees on that project who have not been paid for five weeks. They cannot pay their mortgages or feed their families. No other money is available; they cannot go to a community welfare officer because they are technically employed. When a major company is awarded a contract-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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-----of this type, what does the Minister for Transport do to ensure the staff are paid?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should submit it for consideration on the Adjournment.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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That is the first issue, which is relevant either under the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill or the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill. The second issue relates to the comments of Deputies Kenny and Gilmore on vetting and soft information. This relates to the Tánaiste's brief as well. Is she aware of the significant delays in people obtaining vetting through the bureau in Thurles and what plans are in place to address the issue? A large number of people are unable to get employment because they cannot get the vetting done in time. The voluntary sector comes in under this legislation as well.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As previously indicated, the vetting legislation is very complex and complicated but it is a high priority and is being dealt with by the Minister and his staff. The industrial relations legislation is awaiting Committee Stage and on the specific issue, perhaps the Deputy could speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Calleary, so that he might facilitate her.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Government have any plans to help the 20,000 or so homeowners whose homes are crumbling and cracking severely because of pyrite in the foundations?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should take this up with the appropriate Minister rather than the Tánaiste.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Will any legislation be introduced to help these people? It is a catastrophe.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There is none planned at the moment.

Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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When does the Government plan to bring forward proposals for Oireachtas reform? There has been much rhetoric from the Government for many years and we have been promised, at least in theory, that legislation will be brought forward and concrete proposals will be brought before the Houses.

It is telling that at the end of the Order of Business today there are 12 Deputies in the Chamber. The public perception is that Deputies are not working when not present in the Chamber but the reality is that approximately five committees meet at the same time as the plenary sitting of the Houses. That perception is wrong and it is a serious indictment of the Government and how it continually commits to reforming how the Houses work and improving the way it does business to make it more efficient. It is high time this essential action happens, particularly at a time when public confidence in politics and the political system is at an all-time low.

It is appropriate that Members be allowed to conduct their business in an efficient fashion and be allowed to be productive in the Houses. Members are entitled to be in the Chamber for the Order of Business and are equally entitled and expected to participate fully in committees while they are in session. I urge the Tánaiste to provide some sort of impetus at Cabinet level so that we can see meaningful reform of these Houses.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Whip will deal with that matter.