Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In recent times we have witnessed the betrayal of children's lives in this country. The Murphy and Ryan reports made shocking revelations about the abuse of children. The initiative taken by Deputy Shatter last week exposed inadequacies and flaws in the State's system of accountability. It also exposed the arm's length approach adopted by the Government in respect of the most sensitive of issues, namely, the lives of the children of our country.

The former Ministers of State at the Office of the Minister for Children, Deputies Brian Lenihan and Smith, and the current Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, were in situ during a period when information relevant to the inadequacies and flaws in the States system were perfectly obvious.

Following the laying before the Oireachtas of the report into the aforementioned tragic case by Deputy Shatter, statements were made in this House last Thursday. Prior and subsequent to the taking of those statements, the Health Service Executive reported that 23 children died while the care of the State. In responding to the statements, the Minister of State claimed that 20 children have died. He made no reference to the establishment by him of an independent inquiry or review into the loss of lives of children in the care of the State since 2000. Who is correct? The HSE gave a figure of 23 children while the Minister of State's figure was 20. What happened between 6 p.m. last Thursday and 9 p.m. yesterday, when the Minister of State made his comment about establishing an independent inquiry?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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According to my information, and subject to correction, the Minister of State indicated there were 23 cases of children who had died in care, had recently reached the age of 18 and were known to the child protection services. The important point is that yesterday he asked the board of the HSE to validate the list of all relevant cases at the earliest opportunity.

He has established an independent group to examine the results of completed reviews of deaths of children in care since 2000. This group currently consists of Ms Norah Gibbons and Mr. Geoffrey Shannon and a third person of international standing will be appointed following consultation with the aforementioned appointees. They are being asked to examine existing information on the deaths of children in care so as to validate the categorisation of those children who died from natural causes. In respect of children who died from other than natural causes, they are being asked to examine existing reviews and reports completed by the HSE and, based on this information, to provide an overall report for publication.

The Minister of State wants key summary information on an anonymous basis in respect of each child and the circumstances leading to his or her death, focusing in particular on the relevant involvement of State services with the child and his or her family and examining the strengths and weaknesses of such involvement. In so far as learning can be identified, including common issues, the group is being asked to make recommendations on how child protection responses can be strengthened and, if considered useful, to comment on the nature of the reports or reviews available to it. Work will commence as soon as the Roscommon inquiry is completed and the report will be presented to the Minister of State, who will lay it before the Houses of the Oireachtas and publish it.

This is an important issue that needs to be addressed in the public interest. The group will be asked to indicate at an early stage its schedule for completing its work and to provide regular updates on its progress.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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One of the reasons so much cynicism exists among people regarding politics and the way business is conducted here is the lack of transparency and accountability. Last Thursday, the Minister of State stated in this House, based on information given to him by the HSE, that 23 children died while in the care of the State. Both before that statement was made and subsequently to it, the HSE reported that the figure was 20. Since the Minister of State with responsibility in the area of children must be accountable, truthful and accurate then either the information being given to him by the HSE is not accurate or it must be validated, one or the other.

Following the presentation to the Houses of the Oireachtas of the tragic Fay case by Deputy Shatter, the Minister of State has all of a sudden taken an interest and an initiative. The prioritisation by the Minister of State and the HSE in the past has been irrelevant. These children are dead and some of them died in tragic circumstances. What happened between last Thursday, when the Minister of State made no mention of an inquiry, and last night at 9 p.m., when he announced an independent inquiry into these cases? What happened in the intervening period that he must now validate or find a system of validating information given to him by the HSE in the most sensitive of cases?

The person appointed to carry out the Roscommon report is beyond repute. When that report is completed, will it be published before the review sits? This was a case of the most brutal abuse of young children. Must we wait until the report goes through the review process at the end of the year before it is published?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot anticipate what information or facts will emerge in respect of the Roscommon inquiry. It will be dealt with. At all times, the intention is, where possible, to provide for publication of reports. This must be done in a way consistent with the rights of affected parties. I cannot anticipate the outcome save to give an assurance that the view of the Minister of State in all these matters is to be as transparent as possible. These are important issues, they are in the public interest and they relate to vulnerable children. There is a need to ensure that these reports are made available in the interests of public confidence and such that people discharge their statutory duties as envisaged and foreseen, but with the caveat of the need to deal with any legal issues that arise. I cannot be any more specific than that.

The Minister of State met the chairman of the HSE and officials yesterday evening. He informed them of his decision to establish the independent group. He also discussed additional measures to be undertaken by the HSE as a matter of urgency. He requested that the board of the HSE provide him with a schedule of clear timelines for completing all reviews of child deaths currently in progress but not yet complete. This schedule will include the completion of the review, finalisation of the report and publication of an executive summary in respect of each of the review dates. He will also lay a copy of this schedule before the Houses of the Oireachtas and publish it when it comes to hand.

The Minster of State has agreed with the HSE that the board will review the schedule on a monthly basis and take whatever action is required to ensure adherence to the milestone dates and to report to him in this regard each month. He has also requested that the HSE provide a validated list of all relevant cases at the earliest possible date.

In line with the previous commitment by the HSE to publish the main findings and recommendations of the report in the DF case, a case already made reference to in the public domain, the Minister of State has emphasised the requirement for such information to be published to the HSE. He has agreed with the HSE that this matter should be finalised as a matter of urgency.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I convey my good wishes to the Minister, Deputy Martin Cullen and, I am sure, in the course of time we will have the opportunity to do so more fully. His announcement yesterday that he intends to retire from the Government and the Dáil has again focussed attention on the question of jobs in Government. One reason the Government lacks the confidence of the public is that while thousands of people are losing their jobs, those in Government appear to be preoccupied with protecting their own jobs, reshuffling and rotating them.

I am informed that, in its present manifestation, as of today the Fianna Fáil Green Party Government is in office 1,000 days and that it is 13 years since Fianna Fáil was re-elected in 1997. The Government's record during those 1,000 days is staggering. Some 270 jobs have been lost per day in the 1,000 days so far. It will be a record very hard to best.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach specifically about one measure which, the Labour Party and I believe, would help greatly to save jobs and get people back to work, that is, a proposal on the Labour Party agenda for this evening to change the law to allow for the downward revision of commercial rents. As the Taoiseach and every Member is aware, one of the areas worst affected by job losses is the retail sector. In every shopping street and centre in the country, retail businesses are pushed to the wall. They are trying to get costs down, custom through the door, to survive and to keep people in employment. One major problem many such businesses face is that they have been locked in to leases negotiated in much better and more promising times. Sometimes, they were locked into these leases in circumstances in which their arms were twisted by landlords or property developers and they signed up to leases with very high rents. Now, they are informed these rents cannot be revised downwards. The proposal by the Labour Party would allow for the downward revision of those commercial rents and would be of very significant help to retailers. It would help to save jobs in these businesses and it would help some retailers to re-employ people and get moving again. All that is required is for the Government to agree to accept it. I call on the Taoiseach to accept the proposal from the Labour Party to allow for the downward revision of commercial rents. It is a specific, positive measure that would help to save jobs and, hopefully, create additional jobs in the retail sector.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the questions raised by the Deputy regarding employment in the country. Unemployment in the European economy is running at 10% and, unfortunately, we are at 12.5%. We will do everything we can to protect and create jobs. I assure the Deputy that were we to follow policies put forward by his party in recent years, the numbers unemployed would be far in excess of what they are today.

I refer to the specific matter raised by the Deputy. We introduced a provision prohibiting upward only rent reviews on future leases. This is contained in section 132 of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, which came into force on 28 February last. Were it possible and constitutionally valid to do so, we would not wait for an initiative from the Labour Party. We would have used that opportunity to proceed with downward reviews in rent were it possible. We will have an opportunity later this evening to put forward the position as we are advised on the matter. Unfortunately, the situation is that it is not constitutionally valid to interfere in contracts in that way; that is the strong advice available to us. We will allow the debate to articulate and amplify these issues.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is remarkable that every time a positive proposal is presented to the Taoiseach and the Government, designed to protect and create jobs, the Government always seems to have a reason why it cannot be done.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not constitutional.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Our legal advice is that it is constitutionally possible to do so. Professor David Gwynn Morgan, a professor of law at University College Cork, agrees. In a letter to a newspaper written last week, he stated, "It is reported that the Attorney General has advised that to extend this change to existing leases would be "retrospective" and therefore unconstitutional". He stated: "With respect, this view seems to me to be wrong."

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Seems.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Therefore, there is legal opinion that says it is constitutionally possible to do it. The Government did not seem to have any constitutional difficulty when it decided to set up NAMA and it did not seem to have any constitutional difficulty when it decided to revise unilaterally the contracts of the employees of the State last year when it cut their pay, but it suddenly wraps itself in the Constitution when it comes to protecting the interests of landlords and some of these very property developers who have landed us in this difficulty in the first place. That is what the Government's constitutional problem is about.

This is a positive measure. I hold here a letter from a businesswoman in my constituency who states that some landlords are now being inflexible and seem happy enough to let good businesses sink while they swim. That summarises it in a nutshell.

If the Taoiseach thinks there is a constitutional problem with this, let him publish the Attorney General's advice and let us see it. What is the big secret? Our advice is that the proposal that the Labour Party is putting this evening is perfectly constitutional and is perfectly possible to implement. It is a measure that would provide significant help to the retail sector, would help to protect jobs and would help to ensure that there is an opportunity for people to get future employment in the retail sector.

Instead of putting up obstacles and telling us why he cannot do it, will the Taoiseach join us and the other parties in this House in doing something positive today? We should send out some kind of a signal from this House that the Government is concerned about jobs other than its own, the jobs of the people working in shops and businesses up and down this country who are at risk and who are worried about losing those jobs. We should send out some signal that the Government is on their side and will agree to this proposal tonight from the Labour Party that would allow for downward revision of rents and that would keep good retail businesses in operation with the employment that belongs to them.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am on the side of people throughout the country who want to try to create jobs and maintain jobs, but I cannot agree to a proposal where it is clear from a legal and constitutional perspective that wholesale interference with existing lease arrangements,-----

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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It is not clear.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----which, essentially, are matters of private contract between private parties, is not a feasible option.

It is also clear that any move in the direction of imposing a rent freeze across the board would be impossible to implement in a constitutional manner. To put it briefly, the advice received from the Office of the Attorney General is that-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Publish it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----real, legal and constitutional difficulties would arise if property rights were to be affected retrospectively.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Not where it is a national emergency.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach without interruption.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will come to that point. The other point is, obviously, that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, will be in the House tonight to explain in detail the Government's position on this matter, and the situation. Obviously, his argumentation will incorporate the advice available to Government in the matter. Were all of these matters legally possible they could be considered, but they are not legally possible in the context of the Constitution and property rights, as I have outlined.

In addition to the retrospection issue, concerns have been raised about the ability of tenants to obtain reliable and comprehensive information in the context of the rent review process. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has established a working group to examine the adequacy of the information available to parties in the context of the commercial rent reviews.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Another one - 900 and counting.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The group has also been asked to explore how the arbitration system can be better used in these cases.

I make clear to Deputy Gilmore that in every way we can assist, Government will seek to assist. However, it is not true that one can decide, based on the proposal that he put forward, that one can disregard the constitutional guard that exists, and that can be amplified in the House later this evening.