Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the appointments made by him since June 2002 to State boards or other agencies within his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48401/09]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the names, occupations and dates of appointment of those appointed to the boards of State agencies and bodies under the aegis of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48406/09]

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the appointments made by him to boards or agencies operating under the aegis of his Department since June 2002 to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3181/10]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the appointments to State boards made by him since June 2007; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3461/10]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.

The information requested by the Deputies relating to appointments made by me to State boards and agencies since I became Taoiseach on 7 May 2008 is contained in a schedule that I propose to circulate with the Official Report.

Schedule for Inclusion in the Official Report in reply to Parliamentary Question Numbers 48401/09, 48406/09, 3181/10 and 3461/10 regarding Appointments to State Boards by the Taoiseach

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Was the Taoiseach contacted recently by members of the Green Party about appointments that were made of former or failed Green Party candidates to State boards? The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, appointed Mr. Vincent P. Martin and Ms Gene Feighery who lost their seats in local elections to serve on the Private Residential Tenancies Board. Mr. Niall Ó Brolcháin was appointed a Senator by the Taoiseach. Ms Burrell, who lost her seat in the local elections, was appointed to the National Disability Authority. The former Green Party secretary general, Mr. Nutty, was appointed to An Foras Orgánach, the new organic food group. A further Green Party politician, Ms Davidson, who failed to win a seat in last year's Dublin South by-election, is a classifier with the IFCO. There are also a number of assistant classifiers who are former Fianna Fáil politicians, including Mr. Sheridan and three ex-Members of the Seanad, including former Senators Bennett, Fitzgerald and McGuinness. I note that the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, recently appointed a friend and well-known active Fianna Fáil canvasser to the board of the National Transport Authority. Did the Green Party consult the Taoiseach about those appointments? In his capacity as head of Government, does the Taoiseach think this is the way to conduct the nation's business? Does he think it would be appropriate to advertise these positions? Does he have any belief in Fine Gael's proposal that the chairpersons of such organisations should at least be asked to appear before the appropriate Oireachtas committee to tell members what they have to offer in terms of their appointment? Does the Taoiseach not think that would be a broad and more comprehensive response? He is the Taoiseach and while there are many people who do not vote for him or his party, he is still their Taoiseach.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is right.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is the Taoiseach for all the people. If I represent a half a million people who do not vote for him, he is still the Taoiseach. If appointments are to be made to these boards, does he not think it would be appropriate that, in respect of the chairmanships, there should at least be a broader and more comprehensive strategy than merely appointing failed politicians or, in this case, members of the Green Party or Fianna Fáil?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not contacted concerning every appointment to every board. As regards appointments to the Seanad, I am obviously satisfied about Senator Ó Brolcháin's suitability for the post. The fact that someone is a current or former public representative does not disqualify them from service.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Certainly not.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure there are many other occupations, including accountants, solicitors, farmers and doctors, which may be suitable depending on the tasks undertaken by a given board. That should determine the suitability of any person to be a member of the board. I have no reason to believe that, in respect of any of the organisations the Deputy mentioned, those people would not be qualified to do such a task.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Nor am I suggesting that former political, public representatives should not be appointed. I am not suggesting that at all. I am just naming ten or 12 who happen to be persons who either failed to hold their seats or belong to a particular political party. We discussed this matter before with the Taoiseach's predecessor on many occasions. It is difficult to get good people to serve on boards in many instances. Would the Taoiseach not take into account what the Minister for Finance said about this in response to questions I asked him? He said it would be useful for the Oireachtas to involve the appropriate Oireachtas committee at some stage in some of these appointments.

When there is a vacancy on a State agency's board, one can go through a list of party supporters, or Green Party supporters. However, there may well be others who might have something genuine to bring to that board but they never get a look in. Such positions could be advertised, although one might get too many applications. Alternatively, to get the best from the appointments to be made, one could say: "These are important positions. I'd like you to go before the Oireachtas committee and tell the members what it is that you will bring to the job with your expertise and experience, be you a former public representative or not."

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask a question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Many of the bodies are probably quangos that are going to go anyway. However, in the interests of having the very best people who want to participate, it should not just be confined to selected personnel. Does the Taoiseach agree it is appropriate that the Minister for Finance, by accepting my recommendation following the publication of Deputy Varadkar's Bill some time ago, should involve the relevant Oireachtas committee with regard to some of these appointments, perhaps not all of them, but certainly the more important ones?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The point I was making was that membership of the boards is not limited to specific personnel or people of a specific background, nor does it exclude people with a political background. The majority of the people appointed to the boards are not known to me personally, but if they are vouched for by the relevant line Minister as people he believes suitable for appointment, I accept that the people with the line responsibility have made inquiries and appointed them on the basis of their skills, qualifications or general experience. As the Deputy knows, dealing with the non-executive functions of a board and governance of an organisation does not require technical executive types. It requires people with an overall understanding of the role and remit of the organisation who can bring something to the table to assist that organisation execute its remit. Also, the person's own experience is part of the relevant criteria in being able to contribute to a board.

It is open to any Oireachtas committee to invite a chairman and chief executive to appear before a committee at any time to discuss issues regarding general governance and the areas of expertise applicable to board structures or membership. There is a provision under the Broadcasting Act for involvement. Therefore, the remit and scope of these things varies from Department to Department and board to board. The overall criteria we need to apply is that people be appointed on the basis of relevant skills, qualifications and experience and that they are people whom one would trust in terms of their public service and the role they will play on the board. It is open to any member of the public or any person at any time to represent himself or herself as suitable for a board appointment and it is a matter for the relevant Minister or deciding officer to decide in any particular case whether the people available are suitable for appointment.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's predecessor admitted to me here that a number of the appointments he made were based on friendship, not ability. For example, the chairman of the Dublin Port and Docks board was appointed on the basis of friendship, not ability. I am glad to hear the Taoiseach say appointments should be on the basis of people's credentials and the quality of what they can bring to the board to which they are appointed. It is open to any of the relevant committees to call in chairmen - who may refuse or consent to appear - but these chairmen have already been appointed.

Does the Taoiseach agree that in the case of important appointments the persons proposed should appear at the relevant Oireachtas committee before their appointment? This would allow them put forward their assessment of what they can bring to the board to which they are to be appointed. In the case of at least six of the people I mentioned who were appointed to various boards, did the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government consult with the Taoiseach to get his imprimatur for the appointments? They are very confined and narrowly based. I am not saying they are not good people, but Deputy Gormley has six of his either failed or current supporters appointed to boards. He did not do that off his own bat and had to have the Taoiseach's consent. Will the Taoiseach confirm whether he gave that consent?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thought I made it clear that appointments to some boards do not require my consent. I do not micro-manage board appointments by Ministers. Certain appointments to statutory bodies must come before Government, other appointments are dealt with by Ministers. There may be some occasions when a board is being constituted where discussion takes place with me, but in the main I leave the decisions to the Ministers concerned. Where appointments are to be made in which the Government has an interest, this will be brought to the attention of the Government as a matter of course. However, for certain bodies, Government approval of appointments is required under legislation, although these are a minority.

The general criteria for suitability are qualifications and experience. The Deputy mentioned some names that, as far as I can recall, were not brought to my attention. However, I will leave it to the Minister concerned to deal with those issues.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Renewed Programme for Government contains a commitment that the Government will introduce, on a legislative basis, a more open and transparent system for appointments to public bodies. It states that this legislation will outline a procedure for the advertising of all vacancies and the inviting of applications from those interested in being appointed; it will also allow for the creation of a panel of suitable applicants and provide a mechanism for consideration of appointments by the appropriate Oireachtas committee. When will we see that legislation?

If this is Government policy on appointments to public bodies - I presume it is, otherwise it would not be in the programme to Government - why can the Government not practise it now, rather than preaching it? What is to prevent the Government from applying these principles immediately and on an continuing basis, rather than waiting for the legislation? Why, for example, did the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources recently make an appointment to a post at the Commission for Energy Regulation, with a salary of €165,000, without any advertising? I understand around a third of all Green Party councillors who lost their seats at the local elections last June have now been appointed to State bodies. Why does the Government not apply its proposed policy now?

The Taoiseach responded to an earlier question by saying he did not want to micro-manage his Ministers. It is widely expected that the Taoiseach will have an extensive Cabinet reshuffle and realignment of Departments. What steps is he taking in anticipation of significant changes in the Cabinet? Is he taking steps to ensure that those he does not intend to reappoint will not be appointing people all over the place before the reshuffle?

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Especially the Green Party members. They have learned a lot.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I commend the Deputy on his dexterous attempt to introduce a supplementary question that has nothing whatever to do with the question. I cannot answer any speculation about that matter and I have no comment to make on it.

With regard to the question that was relevant, I stated previously in the House that the detail and scope of the legislation envisaged in the programme for Government has yet to be worked out; therefore, the commitment is to put the changes on a legislative basis. In the meantime, as with all commitments, the existing arrangements apply until the new arrangements are put in place, which will be during the remainder of the period covered by the programme for Government - that is, the next couple of years.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Who is preparing the legislation? When I asked this before, the Taoiseach seemed to think it would come from the Department of Finance. Which Minister will present the detailed proposals to the Government?

The policy mentioned in the Renewed Programme for Government is very explicit. It would provide for the publication of all vacancies likely to occur, the inviting of applications from the general public and, from the responses, the creation of a panel of suitable persons for consideration for appointment. The legislation will also specify the number of persons to be appointed by Ministers and facilitate the appropriate Oireachtas committees in making nominations to the panel.

Why is this practice not being followed? I presume it is Government policy and although we will have to wait for the legislation to come forward, why is the Government not practising what it preaches? The policy was put in the programme for Government so why are the appointments made by Ministers not subject to what is now meant to be Government policy?

I understand the Cabinet handbook has an arrangement where when appointments are made, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and any other party leader in Government will be informed separately in advance of any such proposal. Is that still the practice? How many leaders of parties are there in Government? At one stage this was-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are drifting.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to know who is consulted.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are essentially meant to be talking about appointments to State boards.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Who is consulted? The Cabinet handbook mentions the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and any other party leader. Do I understand from this that the consultation process is confined to the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government or is any other Minister included in the arrangement for approving appointments to various State bodies?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That relates to the two leaders of the Government and the Tánaiste where appropriate. Programme managers are put in place to deal with some of the mechanics of these issues. To return to the Deputy's points on the legislative basis for systems of appointments to public bodies, that will have to be pursued and the scope will have to be worked out in the first instance. It will then be ready for assignment and until that happens we will proceed with existing arrangements. The programme for Government has a reference to the matter and we will work through it on that basis.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Why does this need legislation at all? The only people who can make these appointments make up the Government, therefore, it must be asked if legislation is needed to govern what should be good practice. If the practice that should apply has been agreed among the parties in Government, as is reflected in the programme for Government, why is it not put in place? Is legislation really needed to give effect to something already agreed in the programme for Government? There is nothing to stop it being implemented.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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A commitment has been made to put it in legislation.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Somebody got codded when this was being written.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No. There is already a Broadcasting Act provision that relates to a reference to Oireachtas committees in respect of appointments to boards. Some issues arose even when the committee dealt with that issue so there is a need to ensure the matter is handled properly and appropriately.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I also wish to reflect on the revised programme for Government. Deputy Gilmore quoted from the particular section of the programme which appears under the heading "Enhancing our democracy and public services." I agree that we should work towards legislation. Out of a renegotiated programme for Government, do both Fianna Fáil and the Green Party recognise that enhancing our democracy and public services could find a contribution from the proposals laid down in the section as already put on the record by Deputy Gilmore? Surely in that recognition both parties could agree to practice what they have already negotiated and agreed? That would be a contributory factor to, as the heading states, enhancing our democracy and public services.

Will the Taoiseach give an indication this afternoon that he will speed up the processing of the legislation? At what stage is the preparatory process? Has preparation of the legislation even begun?

Concerns have often been expressed over many years by Members of the Opposition, including me, about the appointment of citizens to State bodies. Will the Taoiseach speak to the leader of the Green Party to bring about the respective changes in advance of the legislation? Will he ensure that the legislation is fast tracked to give legislative status to the specific areas such as the number of appointments to be made by Ministers, and the number who should appropriately be nominated by Oireachtas committees? There are people out there who could bring a wealth of experience to many of these bodies, yet whose names do not appear on the short-lists that come into circulation from within a very closed shop vis-À-vis the respective Departments. In the renegotiated programme for Government, Fianna Fáil and the Green Party agreed that the process should be opened up significantly and that the conduct of this business should be improved. Will the Taoiseach undertake to initiate the practice and fast-track the legislation?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have stated in previous replies that the scope and detail of this legislation have yet to be worked out. To give any commitment before that is done would be rather speculative, so I will not do that. I have already outlined the approach for the bodies provided under the Broadcasting Act 2009. Different boards require different approaches, and each needs to be treated on an individual basis. When bringing forward proposals on any future State boards, I am satisfied that each Minister will provide for the most appropriate bases from which to draw their membership. We have to bring forward legislation on this, but we have had a tried and tested system in place. From my ministerial experience, I have often acted on recommendations by people who I personally did not know. Obviously, I knew the person in some cases, but in other cases I did not.

It is all about finding people with the relevant qualifications and criteria that are needed to fill the vacancies. We might need somebody with accountancy skills, somebody with proven business acumen, or somebody who has acted as some kind of public interest director. It depends on the board we are talking about or the vacancy that has arisen. All these criteria must be examined and a balance found when a board is being constituted. I usually find that is the case. There is often a problem in finding a suitably qualified person who would give his or her time to serve on a board. There is an open invitation to all citizens who feel they could play a constructive role to contact the relevant Minister or Department concerned, and then they can be considered in the event of a vacancy arising.

It is not my experience that there is a closed shop. It is all about trying to find people who are eminent in taxation institutes, the Institute of Chartered Accountants, the Law Society and so on who might have something to contribute and whose skill sets are relevant to ensuring that the board discharges its governance duties and keeps executives to account. That has to be continuously monitored.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Having already acknowledged the importance of making these changes, one would feel there would be no resistance to moving ahead with some speed to implement them, either in practice now or following legislation. However, the Taoiseach's reply did not indicate that there is any urgency on his part.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy put a question to the Taoiseach?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach provided an affirmation in respect of the good sense of making these changes. Does he accept that, under the current system - and as Deputy Kenny highlighted in outlining a list of recent appointments to a number of State boards and agencies - the likelihood is that political parties will-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy ask a question?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have asked a question. The only way to open the system up to the wider public is to place the relevant information in the public arena and invite applications. Such applications could then be given due consideration and appointments could be made. It is a fairly straightforward proposition. Will the Taoiseach provide Members with a little more hope to the effect that the stated commitment in the programme for Government to enhance our democracy and public services is something which both parties in the current Administration intend to honour?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I indicated that there are many statutory duties which Ministers must fulfil. One of these duties, which must be discharged, is to make appointments to State boards. If there are those inside or outside the House who know people who might possess the relevant experience and who would be suitable for appointment to State boards, they should bring the matter to the attention of the relevant Ministers.

Deputy Ó Caoláin referred to the commitment in the programme for Government to establish a more transparent system for appointments to public bodies that will facilitate the appropriate Oireachtas committees to make nominations for consideration for appointment. Under this system, the relevant committees would simply put forward names for consideration. I respectfully suggest that names can be put forward without the "by your leave" of Government. It is possible to submit names at any time. The argument that has been used with regard to the Government introducing legislation can also be used in this instance. Committee members can put forward names for consideration. The scope and remit of the new system must be developed in accordance with the experience relating to nominations under the Broadcasting Act.