Dáil debates

Thursday, 25 February 2010

Priority Questions

Departmental Reports.

3:00 pm

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he has received a report from the chairperson of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority; the findings of this report; the recommendations of this report; when he will publish this report; if he will publish an implementation plan for any recommendations contained within this report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9856/10]

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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My Department wrote to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority in August 2009 requesting that a comprehensive review of corporate governance arrangements within the authority be undertaken. Consequently, the authority commissioned two independent consultants' reports to assess its planning and financial procedures. These two reports, together with a covering report from the authority's board, were submitted to me at the beginning of February and are now being considered by my Department, in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General.

I recently met the authority's chairperson, Professor Niamh Brennan, to discuss the reports and I understand that under her tenure as chair the authority's board has already introduced measures and new procedures to address many of the issues identified in the reports. I expect the consideration of the reports will be completed within a matter of weeks, at which stage I will bring to Government proposals to respond appropriately to the issues raised.

In considering the requests, my Department and the Office of the Attorney General are mindful of the need to ensure that due process is followed. However, in the interests of transparency, I intend to publish the reports following that process, subject to the advice of the Attorney General. Arising from its 2008 annual accounts, the authority has also prepared a report in respect of the Becbay joint venture. I have appointed independent financial advisers to review and analyse this report, in consultation with my Department and the Department of Finance. I intend to revert to Government on this matter, also within a matter of weeks.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister indicate to the House if he is concerned that in excess of €230 million in accumulated deficit has arisen in an authority which is under the remit of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government? He has mentioned the fact he commissioned a report on corporate governance last August but I did not hear him say the contents of the report will include matters relating to the activities of the board, conflicts of interest and the history of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. If his reports are only based on planning, finance and procurement, they are separate issues to the activities of board members. Will the Minister confirm to the House today that all matters relating to conflicts of interest, which have been highlighted to his Department as far back as 2004 and included what was happening regarding the influence of Anglo Irish Bank and the cross-directorships of it and the board of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, will be addressed?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is interesting how the narrative is now changing. I have seen headlines in the newspapers, to which the Deputy contributed, saying these reports were explosive, etc. The Deputy has confirmed today-----

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It was what the former Senator said.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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------that these matters concern planning and corporate governance. Therefore, he is indicating clearly that they may not be as explosive as he and others indicated previously. He is correct in saying that these reports want to get to the very bottom of how corporate governance operated in the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. I am happy to say my appointment of Professor Brennan has been very successful, something which Deputy Hogan has indicated.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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According to who?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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According to Deputy Hogan-----

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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No, I said I welcomed the appointment; I have not seen any product.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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-----among others. She has done a forensic job and is following up on the recommendations contained in the report on corporate governance. The issues relating to planning are also of interest. I am genuinely concerned about the Mountbrook judgment and how it came about. It is very important it is never repeated. I want to see, as I hope the Deputy does, a functioning Dublin Docklands Development Authority. We cannot afford to throw all of baby out with the bath water because, I think the Deputy will agree, it has done excellent work in some areas. We need to ensure that work in areas such as section 25 certificates is done properly in the future. That is why I commissioned the reports. I have no intention of sitting on reports because I was the person who appointed Professor Brennan and commissioned the reports. I want to ensure they are published and people can examine them. We can then act very effectively on their recommendations.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can ask a brief supplementary question. We have limited time.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We always have limited time, but this matter concerns €230 million of taxpayers' money------

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not arguing.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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-----which has gone down the Swanee and was spent on activities at the behest of cross-directorships. The Minister has not confirmed to the House that he has examined all of the conflicts of interest which have emerged regarding these matters. He has not indicated to me today that any degree of accountability is being sought from people who were on the various sub-committees of the boards over the years who were making these decisions. If the Minister wants to whitewash all the decisions which were made by the board and several other boards over the years, that is his prerogative. However, his credibility is on the line in regard to getting to the truth.

I welcome the appointment of Professor Brennan, but I want to make sure she is getting the support of the Minister in commissioning reports which will not hide behind a particular process. We should know the names of individuals, the transactions and the truth about what has gone on to accumulate €230 million in losses over the past number of years because of a golden circle between Anglo Irish Bank and the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, in terms of cross-directorships. The Minister should tell us when he will have reports on corporate governance and the activities of the board, apart from the planning and finance functions, available to the House in order that we can discuss all of these matters in a truthful fashion.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Exactly.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I condemn unequivocally any misuse of public funds. Professor Brennan has my total support. She knows that. I have met her to discuss these reports. I again emphasis the fact I was the one who commissioned these reports. I did so-----

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We know that from former Senator Deirdre de Búrca.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I did so to ensure-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Hogan, allow the Minister to finish his reply.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy mentioned the former Senator. It would have been an interesting and proper question to ask if I had read the reports. Of course, I am the only person in the Cabinet who has read the reports.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We would expect the Minister to read something.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am afraid the Deputy may be looking for something he cannot achieve.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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If the Minister has no problem with them he should publish them.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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What are they sitting on his desk for?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He is looking for a major story. He knows the situation and the people who were involved.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We have enough stories without looking for them.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He knows the situation and the people who were involved.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The ball is in the Minister's court.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He knows that there were developers. My Department does not take donations from developers, unlike the Deputy's party.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Hold on. On a point of order-----

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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That is the situation.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, the Minister is in possession.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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On a point of information-----

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have probably hit a nerve, but that is the situation.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order or whatever you want-----

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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What do you mean by "whatever you want"? It is or is not a point of order.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the point of order?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Whatever you want.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Minister, withdraw the allegation that, in some way, because Fine Gael is in the business of accepting donations for elections he has a problem with it, in terms of a conflict of interest in dealing with these matters.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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No, I am saying-----

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Withdraw that remark.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I will not.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Withdraw that remark.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have no intention of doing anything.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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He should not be engaging in a smoke-screen because his credibility is on the line about getting to the truth. His Department knows since 2004-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Hogan, please.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Since 2004 there were representatives from his Department on the board of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. What did they do?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Hold on.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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What did they do?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It would be very interesting to check if the Deputy had political representatives who were invited-----

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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He is the Minister. I will ask the questions and he will answer them.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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-----and if other parties were represented, in particular the committees which dealt with the Becbay acquisition. It is a very good question to ask. Let us see what the political involvement is. We will get to the bottom of this.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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What is the Minister spraying around now?

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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One thing will be clear.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Is he spraying sludge from Ringsend again?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Hogan, please.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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There seems to be very little point in talking in this Chamber any more because people do not want to listen. That is the problem.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We are listening to the Minister now.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have given the information.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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We are listening to nonsense.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will move on.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He does not like the information. What can one do?

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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People on the board of the authority are still conflicted.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Really. Who are they?

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will name them for the Minister on another occasion.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is limited time for each priority question, and we are losing it.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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There are two conflicted people on the board.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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This is very interesting. The Deputy has a public duty to name those people.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will decide that. There are two conflicted people.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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No, the Deputy should do so now.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It is up to the Minister to find that out.

Photo of Terence FlanaganTerence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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He is the Minister.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Do so now.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It is up to the Minister to find out that.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy says he has information. He should do so now.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister knows everything.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy cannot make assertions like that.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is spraying sludge from Ringsend.

Photo of John GormleyJohn Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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He is hoping someone will print what he says and it will be left hanging. The Deputy has a duty to name those people and follow up and substantiate what he is saying. I will act accordingly.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister can check this.