Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 February 2010

5:00 pm

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will move on to the motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement on social security between the Government of Ireland and the Government of Japan. Could I call on the Minister to-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What about the Order of Business?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Is the Ceann Comhairle not giving us an opportunity?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I was proceeding on the basis-----

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle is way ahead of himself.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny has the floor.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will ask the Taoiseach three questions. Is it intended to allow time for statements on the announcement from Europe of assistance for Greece and the decision on that, the death of the growth and stability pact and the new regime to be implemented? This has important implications for Ireland and arrangements should be made to allow for an appropriate time for comment on this matter in the House.

I seek clarification from the Taoiseach on the comments made by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. On Sunday she gave an indication in respect of the two by-elections for Donegal South-West and Dublin South, a referendum to be held on children's rights and on the legislation to provide for the mayoralty of Dublin. Has the Government firmed up on when they are likely to be held and will they all be held on the one day? Does the Taoiseach expect they will be held before or after the summer recess?

Does the Taoiseach have any idea as to when it is expected the Moriarty report will be published?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are no decisions on the second matter raised by the Deputy. The first matter is one for the Whips. If Members want to have statements on that issue, that is a matter for the Whips to organise. Third, I expect the Moriarty report will be published perhaps in mid-March.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with Deputy Kenny that an opportunity should be provided in the House to discuss the financial situation in Europe with particular reference to the difficulties in Greece. When my colleague, Deputy Burton, asked the Tánaiste about this on Thursday, she indicated that while normally there are not statements after an informal EU summit, perhaps on this occasion, given the gravity of the situation, there might be statements in the House. Perhaps the Taoiseach would consider either that or some other method by which we can have a discussion on what is happening in Greece and the implications of that in particular for the rest of the euro area.

I understand the report of the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children has been published. The previous report of 11 September 2008 recommended legislation should be prepared, but we have not yet seen such legislation. When will such legislation be prepared and brought before the House?

The third issue I wish to raise was also raised by Deputy Kenny. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs told the nation on Sunday night that the two by-elections and the election of a mayor of Dublin would be held at the back end of the year. Does the Taoiseach know when is the back end of the year? Given that the Minister was speaking on the Chinese New Year, was she talking about the Chinese year or the one with which we are all familiar? Will we ever see the two by-elections held and what is the Taoiseach's view with regard to them?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I presume the Minister was asked to give an idea or an opinion and she gave her opinion. Presumably she was talking about the second half rather than the first half of the year.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The second half of the back end of the year or the second half of the-----

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Is that the Year of the Tiger?

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The tiger is on his last legs now.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to reply without interruption.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No, the normal Julian calendar with which we deal. I do not know what former Communist international Deputy Gilmore was involved in that he had to know all these different dates.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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This is the Chinese New Year.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Maybe it is Old Moore's Almanac to which we should look.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no big deal for us, we will keep it simple.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We have seen the back end of the Celtic tiger and we will see the back end of the Year of the Tiger for the holding of the by-elections.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is obviously an old habit of which the Deputy is finding it difficult to get rid. From our point of view it is the normal year.

On the question of the children's rights report, I first congratulate the chairperson, Deputy O'Rourke, and the committee on its excellent work, which has been ongoing for some time. This is the third interim report. The committee has spent two years working towards today's report. Obviously, there are complex legal and constitutional issues at the heart of this report. We will give it our attention, seek the Attorney General's views on it and so on but on the day of its publication I want to commend, in the first instance, all the members of the committee whom I know have worked hard not only on this report but on other reports which have suggested a legislative route for other aspects of vindicating children's rights. Progress is being made on all those areas and I commend the committee for that work.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the context of the disgraceful incident where two kidneys and a pancreas intended for human transplant purposes in this State were not used and were sent abroad because the unit in Beaumont Hospital had no available beds, what action will the Taoiseach take to ensure that the Department of Health and Children and the Health Service Executive guarantee, which is their responsibility, that there will be adequate bed provision for people who are awaiting life-saving procedures including transplants of kidneys and pancreas? What will he do in regard to the Department of Health and Children which issued a disgraceful statement post this revelation in a Pontius Pilate-like way washing its hands of the matter?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are transgressing Question Time. This is a question for the Minister for Health and Children.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is a hugely important issue. In the context of legislation, several Bills could impact on this and I refer specifically to the licensing of health facilities Bill. Will the Taoiseach intervene with the Department of Health and Children to have this Bill and others, including the eligibility Bill which we have raised with him nearly weekly since he took office, brought forward? When will he act with the Department of Health and Children and the Minister, who disgracefully presides over this outrageous position?

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I wish to raise a question on the same issue.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise a brief question on the promised legislation.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The fact that these organs left the country simply because there were not enough beds is a terrible indictment of the health system where people are waiting-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way to address that issue.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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This happened because of a lack of beds.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can submit a parliamentary question to the Minister for Health and Children.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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We need a proper answer from Government as to why this could possibly have happened.

Deputies:

We did not get one.

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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People are dying.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This matter could be raised on the Adjournment.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Donor organs were available. People were on a waiting list for transplants but were not able to have those organs transplanted here because of a shortage of beds. The Taoiseach must answer the question on that.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no date available for the Bill mentioned by Deputy Ó Caoláin.

I heard an interview given by a clinician from Beaumont on this matter and he set out the situation reasonably fairly. Three organs were sent to the UK for transplant to enable patients elsewhere to use the organs because it was judged that Irish patients' safety could have been compromised as a result of highly exceptional circumstances relating to the high number of transplant procedures carried out at that time combined with the unexpected availability of two additional donors, the interim accommodation measures being in place for safety reasons and the unavailability of the appropriate surgery-nursing skills mix.

On the day in question seven patients had received transplants in the preceding two days, on average, there are approximately two renal transplants every four days over the course of a year. Patients remain in a renal transplant unit for between four and seven days following their operation and they need to be accommodated in a particular environment.

There are capital works ongoing at the hospital on implementing the national plan for radiation oncology. For this reason, transplant patients had to be accommodated in another suitable part of the hospital. The construction is adjacent to the original 33-bed ward that included transplant recipients and Beaumont considered that the construction work posed a risk to their health and safety. Therefore, recipients are accommodated in a new eight-bedded, high efficiency unit on an interim basis.

It is important to point out that there were particular circumstances relating to this issue not related to the absence of work but on the basis that there was an overload of work, the availability of two donors, thankfully, and the need to ensure that the organs were used, in this case, in the UK. The explanations were given well.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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On the same matter, there is no doubt that there is a significant demand for transplants in this country but we have not been matching the expectations of people, particularly those awaiting heart and lung transplants. We spent a fortune setting up these services but only two lung transplants have been done in the past year.

It is quite clear that the hospital in Beaumont is struggling. It has more patients waiting with delayed discharge-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a legislative query?

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I will finish with this. There is one solid issue that needs to be addressed by the Government, which is the failed co-location plan that has not delivered a single bed.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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While I am on my feet I ask when the Health Information and Quality Authority Bill will be introduced. Is it true, as has been relayed to me by a journalist today, that cervical cancer vaccination will now be delayed until next September? It is another betrayal of the girls of this country.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply but the reality is Irish patients are a long time waiting for transplants and they have now been denied an opportunity. It is a very serious matter for those people and their families. It is a serious human issue. I urge the Taoiseach to consider the matter in Beaumont and if it is the case that we will have greater availability of organs, it would be marvellous, unless we had not the wherewithal or facilities to cope. Given the numbers of people on long waiting lists, that is outrageous. All the Taoiseach's explanation does, with respect, is underscore the fact that we have inadequate resources in place to deal with the human need and what I hope is a growing awareness-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to leave it at that.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----of people willing to give their organs.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is a particular circumstance of the development of radiation oncology in Beaumont, which is much needed. It is adjacent to the transplant recipient unit and an interim unit has been provided because of the particular environment that has to be arranged for them. I have some knowledge in this area and the best thing we can do is continue to facilitate donations and ask more people to consider it as an option. It is a life-giving action at a time of grief and bereavement for families.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Has the Taoiseach any plans for a national transplant authority, which is badly needed?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Not at the moment.

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment has done a welcome U-turn on the need for effective legislation to control the power of multiples. I am somewhat concerned about a comment attributed to a spokesperson for the Minister in one of today's publications. It indicated there was adequate legislation under competition laws to deal with the matter. Will the Taoiseach clarify the matter on legislation in this regard? We are led to believe a voluntary code will be followed by a statutory code of conduct but when will the legislation be produced?

Further to the debate we had on the Lost at Sea scheme report from the Ombudsman, the Seanad will consider the report later this week. In the Taoiseach's opinion, does sterile debate on these matters in both the Dáil and Seanad constitute consideration of this matter as requested by the Office of the Ombudsman? Will the Taoiseach give his colleague and friend, Deputy Fahey, an opportunity to go before a committee on the matter?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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A voluntary code of conduct is being brought forward on the matter referred to by the Deputy which requires legislation. It will be put on a statutory footing when the amalgamation of the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency is provided for in legislation during the course of this year.

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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What about the Lost at Sea report?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Seanad is dealing with it this week.

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Will it go to committee from the Seanad?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not think so.

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The Government is trying to bury it in the Seanad.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Whatever the Deputy thinks himself.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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In the context of the education (patronage) Bill, which has been promised for over a year and is No. 4 on the A list, can I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the fact that his colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, has announced the formation of seven new primary schools, with three to be under the VECs in counties Meath and Kildare, for which there is no statutory provision? Notwithstanding that the Archbishop of Dublin has said there are too many Catholic primary schools, two new Catholic schools are to be established, with one in Galway city. A study from the university in that area indicated that 33 nationalities must be catered for in that vicinity and a school appropriate for the multicultural needs of that population should be put in place.

What is going on in the Department of Education and Science, as there seems to be a black hole in decision making on the allocation of schools? When will we have the legislation on the floor of the House to debate it openly, democratically and, if I dare say it to the leader of Fianna Fáil, in a republican manner?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach may certainly say it to me as leader of Fianna Fáil. On the granting of recognition to new schools and associated patronage, it is a matter for the Minister under the Education Act. He had to make a decision on which patrons should be recognised in each location.

The interim arrangements for the recognition of new primary schools while the review of procedures in this area is under way provide that the chairman of the commission on school accommodation will advise the Minister in cases where more than one patron expresses an interest in opening the new schools in the expanding locations. The submissions from patrons on proposed new schools for 2010 were assessed by the chairman of the commission on school accommodation and the decisions taken are consistent with the recommendations made by the chairman of the commission. They are in line with interim arrangements, pending the continuing consideration of these matters by the commission concerned.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There is a massive over-subscription of parents in the Kildare area for an Educate Together school in one of the three principal towns. The VEC of that county will now operate illegally - without statutory provision - a new primary school in an area where there is a given demand. I ask the Taoiseach to talk to the Minister about this.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should take this up with the Minister for Education and Science.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There is no transparency in how these decisions are being made.

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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True.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There is more information from the Vatican than we get from the Government.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are interim arrangements, which were followed. The recommendations which came from the commission informed the decisions that were taken on these matters. There is an interim procedure in place and the VEC schools are a very democratic means of providing patronage.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have two issues, one which has been raised by other Members and me on previous occasions. It relates to promised legislation that will protect mortgage holders finding themselves unemployed or unable to meet their mortgage repayments. What progress has been made on this and is the production of this legislation in hand currently, given that mortgage arrears are increasing on a daily basis? In some cases, rolled-over loans are being offered to people already in great difficulty.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We are working on the issue currently, although we have not legislative proposals to hand. There is ongoing work on the matter.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The other issue relates to a note which I received from Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. This relates to how we do business in the House. It states:

Deputy,

as staff in the citizenship division are not dealing with applications for citizenship that are accompanied by representations from a Deputy, it would be advisable to get the individual in question to send in the documentation directly.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should find another way of raising the matter. He could raise it directly with the Minister.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This is the only place we can deal with the matter. There is no other way to do it.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Adjournment.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Do not mention the Adjournment, God save us. Does this also apply to Ministers and Government Deputies?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should address this to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This relates to how we do business in the House. It is in order. I seek clarification from the Taoiseach as to whether this rule applies to Government Deputies and Ministers.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware of the detailed arrangements put in place regarding any work to rule or industrial action being taken by a trade or Civil Service union. The matter should be taken up with the unions. We are anxious to see if there is a basis on which engagement can occur. I welcome that the public services committee decided not to escalate the current industrial action at this point. I have made clear our view on how these issues can be resolved and there are established channels of communication between the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Government, which I am sure can be used to establish if a basis for engagement can be found.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The clarification I am seeking is whether this applies to Ministers and Deputies. Is it universal across the House? I know the Taoiseach-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The answer is yes.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I hope he can answer that with absolute certainty.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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There was a fire on Capel Street last Friday, and €500,000 was found in a safe. It is clear that substantial amounts of money are being made by the operation of head shops in this country. On the Order of Business last Thursday week, I asked the Tánaiste if she would seek clarification about the problem with the UK legislation in respect of the secondary legislation being produced by the Minister for Health and Children and the Taoiseach on this issue. My understanding is that the UK Government had not sought prior EU approval on secondary legislation. The Government here is delaying the introduction of secondary legislation until that EU approval is obtained, which will take three months from the end of this month.

Will the Taoiseach expedite this matter, and ensure he and the Minister for Health and Children sign the secondary legislation in advance of it going to Brussels for approval? If he does not do this, the chemicals that have now been banned in the UK will be dumped on the market here. The operators here will have three months to get rid of them and will sell them at cost to get them out the door. This will compound the problem we have with head shops here.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Health and Children has responsibility for the implementation of the Misuse of Drugs Acts. The legislation being prepared at the moment will introduce controls similar to those recently introduced in the UK on a range of substances that are on sale in head shops. This secondary legislation will be brought forward as quickly as possible, and I will bring the point made by the Deputy to the attention of the Minister.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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A number of documents were laid before the Dáil, the third of which is the RTE defined contribution pension scheme from 1990 to 2006. RTE is the only semi-State body that has been operating a defined contribution pension scheme, rather than a defined benefit scheme. As far as I understand, that pension is not guaranteed by the State and is an entirely independent pension fund. Why is necessary to lay a scheme of this nature before the Oireachtas, if it is not guaranteed by the House and by the Exchequer?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will find out. I do not know.