Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 February 2010

4:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would like to bring to the Chair's attention that the Fine Gael spokesperson on justice, equality and law reform merely said that he hoped that the Ceann Comhairle's office-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have dealt with the matter now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have not dealt with it.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are proceeding with the Order of Business. I call the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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All the Deputy said was that he hoped that the Ceann Comhairle's office was not complicit in this matter-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There was clear implication it was.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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All he said was that he hoped that the Ceann Comhairle's office was not complicit. The Ceann Comhairle is wrong on this.

Photo of Noel DempseyNoel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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That is an insinuation. The Deputy knew exactly what he was doing.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to reply. As the Ceann Comhairle said, the facility of a personal explanation is available to a Member in the House under Standing Orders and if there were any requirement - and I believe there should not be - for political or other reasons to bring a motion to the House, that is a matter for other Members to consider.

Deputy Kenny referred to standards. I believe in standards. The Cabinet Handbook and the Code of Conduct for Office Holders refers to people in the performance of their duties. I obviously also accept that in regard to their private capacity, I expect Ministers to ensure where an error occurs, it is rectified, it is apologised for-----

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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When they are caught out on tape.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----and it is accepted by the party concerned. There is an acceptance by the party concerned not in terms of how it is interpreted in this House that Deputy O'Dea acted innocently-----

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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He had it done under duress.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach, without interruption.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies do not want to hear this quote because it does not suit their political purposes. That is their problem and that is the standard they go by.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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They did it to George Lee last week. Poor George.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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He did not fall out of any tree the Minister was looking up.

5:00 pm

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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However, the standard I want to explain is where a person admits an error and acts in good faith once the error is drawn to his or her attention and obtains the agreement of the party concerned that he or she acted innocently in the matter. Despite Deputy Rabbitte's guffawing, I will quote from the settlement. It is not suggested-----

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He has been lying in here for 25 years.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No; the lies are in The Lost Revolution.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I read it over Christmas and the Deputy was fairly prominent in it.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not welcome the INLA decommissioning.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I ask him to leave it. Let us not talk about lies or untruths.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not welcome the INLA decommissioning, did he?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not suggested by Mr. Quinlivan-----

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Neither did Deputy Gilmore or Lady Wicklow. They were very quiet.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It was SR Technics the Taoiseach should have been reading about.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----that Deputy O'Dea acted other than innocently in making such a denial, and he accepts - that is, the party concerned accepts - that there was no intention to mislead on the part of Deputy O'Dea.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Are these the taxi drivers?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Those are the standards I expect from a person when an error is made.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He did not sign the affidavit.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He is admitting to it and is attempting to solve the problem and deal with it to the satisfaction of the aggrieved person.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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He was caught out.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is what I expect.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is not good enough.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are proceeding with the Order of Business. I have an amendment from Deputy Kenny which is not in order. It is the Taoiseach's prerogative under Standing Orders to introduce the proposal for the Order of Business.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 10 and 11, without debate, be agreed to."

The Dail Divided:

For the motion: 76 (Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Joe Behan, Niall Blaney, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, Brian Cowen, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, Paul Gogarty, John Gormley, Noel Grealish, Mary Hanafin, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Tony Killeen, Michael Kitt, Michael Lowry, Tom McEllistrim, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Micheál Martin, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, John O'Donoghue, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)

Against the motion: 65 (Seán Barrett, Pat Breen, Tommy Broughan, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton, Noel Coonan, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Seymour Crawford, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Jimmy Deenihan, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Olwyn Enright, Frank Feighan, Martin Ferris, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Michael D Higgins, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Paul Kehoe, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Pádraic McCormack, Shane McEntee, Dinny McGinley, Finian McGrath, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Denis Naughten, Michael Noonan, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, Jim O'Keeffe, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Ruairi Quinn, Pat Rabbitte, Tom Sheahan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton, Leo Varadkar, Jack Wall)

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed?

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On that point, I understand that a statement will be made at 7 p.m., the time at which Private Members' business was to start. How does this affect the order to finish Private Members' time at 8.30 p.m.? Will the statement time be taken from the Private Members' business slot?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The statement will be before 7 p.m.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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At what time?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It depends on how we get on now. We have some more business to transact.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That is no answer.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He wants an opportunity to record it.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It will be as soon as possible. We have a special notice question with which to deal.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I cannot hear the Ceann Comhairle.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have a special notice question to deal with and it may take some time.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Has the Ceann Comhairle an indication of the time at which the statement will start?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is intended that it will be before 7 p.m.

Photo of Olivia MitchellOlivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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What time is that?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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At what time exactly?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is dependent on the special notice question, in which I am sure there is considerable interest, but it is intended to have it before 7 p.m.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Does the Minister intend to slip in and make the statement without telling us the time?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is intended to be before 7 p.m.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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What is meant by "before 7 p.m."?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before 7 o'clock.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Does that mean at 6 o'clock? "Before 7 p.m." includes 5 p.m. and 6 p.m. Does the Ceann Comhairle not know?

(Interruptions).

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It will be at 6.55 p.m.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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At five minutes before 7 p.m.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kehoe without interruption.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It was indicated this morning that the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, would make a statement after Private Members' business. As Whip, I then got a message that the statement would be made at 7 p.m. Now we do not know when it will be made.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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When the long hand is at 11 and the short hand is at 7.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will have it before 7 p.m.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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May I finish? It is not acceptable-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is not acceptable that the Minister could enter the Chamber on a whim at any time to make his statement. It is important that we nail down a time as to when he will be in the House making his statement.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Burn the Sunday Independent.

Photo of Noel DempseyNoel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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We will send Deputy Kehoe a text.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Could the Minister send an affidavit instead?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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At what time will the Minister make a statement? When will he be in the House?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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In due course.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have indicated that a suitable time will be 6.55 p.m.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That clashes with "Nob Nation".

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We estimate that it will take the Minister approximately five minutes to make the statement. It will be immediately prior to Private Members' business.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Ceann Comhairle give a commitment that Private Members' time will be 90 minutes? This is the only commitment we seek.

Deputies:

That is sacrosanct.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is intended to respect that. Is the proposal agreed? Agreed.