Dáil debates

Wednesday, 16 December 2009

Ceisteanna - Questions

Official Engagements.

10:30 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his participation at the British-Irish Council meeting in Jersey on 13 November 2009. [42336/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent British-Irish Council meeting in Wales in November 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42562/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the bilateral meetings he held on the margins of the British-Irish Council meeting; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42563/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent contacts with the British Prime Minister in relation to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. [44311/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting on 28 November 2009 with the Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. [45297/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he make a statement on his meeting on 30 November 2009 with the British Prime Minister. [45298/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement in his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland. [45299/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45386/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the British Prime Minister in London on 30 November 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45387/09]

11:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 10, inclusive, together.

I attended the 13th Summit of the British Irish Council, BIC, in Jersey on Friday 13 November last. The meeting was hosted by the Chief Minister of Jersey, Mr. Terry la Seuer, and was attended by BIC Heads of Administration, including Mr. Peter Hain, Secretary of State for Wales; Mr.Alex Salmond, Scottish First Minister; Mr. Rhodri Morgan, Welsh First Minister; and the First and Deputy First Ministers of Northern Ireland, Mr. Peter Robinson and Mr. Martin McGuinness.

Issues for discussion included the economic situation and steps that Administrations are taking to address the difficulties we are all facing, language issues and how all eight Administrations deal with the issue of lesser used languages and the steps they are taking to promote and preserve language in their jurisdictions, the location of a Standing Secretariat of the Council and renewable energy matters. The next BIC summit will take place in Guernsey in June of next year.

While attending the British-Irish Council, I took the opportunity to have bilateral meetings with First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, and Deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness. Our discussions focused on the devolution of policing and justice, the process that was under way and the need for early progress. I also subsequently met on Saturday, 28 November with Deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness, to discuss these matters further. I met with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown, on Monday 30 November to discuss progress in Northern Ireland. Both Governments are agreed on the importance of the full implementation of the Good Friday and St. Andrew's Agreements and firmly believe that the early completion of the devolution of policing and justice is necessary to consolidate the functioning of the devolved institutions and to complete the transformation of policing in Northern Ireland. This is an essential part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, which is the basis on which all parties have moved forward. It is a serious issue and one which must be resolved in the coming weeks. The Prime Minister, Mr. Brown, and I are available to help, but the parties must also work to secure the necessary progress.

I met with Mr. Mark Durkan, MP, MLA., leader of the SDLP, on Monday last when we discussed these issues. I met with Sir Reg Empey, MLA, leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, on 11 November for discussions also.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs continues to meet with the Secretary of State on a regular basis. They met again last night and our officials are also in regular contact. I met with the British Prime Minister at the European Council on Thursday, 10 December last. I will also see the Prime Minister again in Copenhagen later this week.

I also met with the First and Deputy First Ministers at the ninth plenary meeting of the North South Ministerial Council which took place on Monday last in Limavady. At the meeting we had detailed discussions on the economic situation and how North-South co-operation can play its part in economic recovery, in particular, how we can develop co-operation in the delivery of public services, to develop efficiencies and improve services.

The Minister for Finance updated our Northern colleagues on the establishment of NAMA. We had positive engagement on all sides on a range of North-South items. In particular, the NSMC welcomed continued progress on roads, with the Dublin to Belfast road to be completed on schedule next year and contracts now awarded on the north-west route.

I reported on the first North-South consultative conference held in October last. The plenary noted that there would be a follow-up event in the spring.

The Council welcomed the agreement by the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly to hold a North-South parliamentary conference. The Council also welcomed the Government's decision to lift the pause on capital funding for the Middletown Centre for Autism. The Council looked forward to the commencement of interim capital works on site in Middletown consistent with the development plan as soon as possible.

While in the north west I met with members of the Bloody Sunday Trust to discuss issues around the publication of the Saville report into the events of Bloody Sunday, which is expected in the coming months.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Those who have been following the Northern Ireland situation would have been struck by the meeting which the Taoiseach had in the past couple of days with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, and with the quite public manifestation at that meeting, or at least the public part of it, of the bad relationship, which seems to exist between the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and which would appear to have been in existence for some time, and which, in turn, appears to be affecting the workings of the Executive in Northern Ireland. Is the Taoiseach concerned about the deterioration in that relationship? What work is being done to improve matters?

When, in October, I asked the Taoiseach about the devolution of policing, which is the central political issue that must be resolved, he expressed the hope that matters on the devolution of policing could be progressed fairly quickly. There still seems to be a serious stand-off over the devolution of policing. We all had expected around the time the financial package for Northern Ireland was announced by the British Prime Minister that the devolution of policing would follow quickly from it and there has been some surprise that has not happened. Can the Taoiseach tell the House what progress he expects will be made to ensure that the devolution of policing and justice matters is proceeded with reasonably quickly?

Is the Taoiseach concerned that if this does not get resolved reasonably quickly we will be in to the short run-down to the Westminster elections, which may have an impact on what is happening?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I remain hopeful that it will be possible to see the implementation of the remaining aspects of the St. Andrew's Agreement, including the question of devolution of policing and justice. It is in that context that these outstanding matters need to be addressed. I agree there is great urgency to be attached to it. The stability and focusing of the institutions require that all aspects of what was agreed be implemented.

Much work has been ongoing over a period of time regarding various steps that were being taken on a range of items relating to the policing and justice devolution issue. I believe that all parties are committed to the devolution of policing and justice in Northern Ireland and both Governments are seeking to facilitate the taking of the decisions and the putting of the questions at the Assembly that would enable these matters to be finalised.

As Deputy Kenny stated, there have been stated positions publicly put by various parties on this issue. It is an important issue but it is not the only issue. The Government will continue to press for a successful outcome to the ongoing discussions.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach will also be aware that one of the issues which has caused concern north of the Border is the establishment of NAMA. Were NAMA and its implications for Northern Ireland discussed at his meeting with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister? Has the Government given any consideration to the possibility of appointing somebody from Northern Ireland with a Northern Ireland interest to the board of NAMA when it is established?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That remains to be considered by the Government in respect of the composition of the board for the organisation. This issue was raised at Farmleigh and three weeks ago at the NMSC. There have been meetings at a bilateral level between the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and Mr. Sammy Wilson, MP, MLA, his counterpart in the Northern Ireland Executive, who have had good amiable and constructive discussions explaining precisely how we see this operating. Many concerns or initial worries that members of the Northern Ireland Executive may have had have been adequately dealt with as a result of those discussions. There will be a continuing liaison between the Minister for Finance and the Department of Finance and Personnel in Northern Ireland for the purpose of ensuring people are in the loop as to how matters are progressing.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach have any evidence that the theft of a number of ATM machines on this side of the Border is orchestrated by dissident republicans? There would appear to be strong indications that such may well be the case. Does he have any indication of that?

Has any ongoing evidence been given to him in terms of security about the rise in the number of recruitments to dissident republican groups on this side of the Border? This is a matter of growing concern.

In that context, there are serious cuts in the drugs rehabilitation programmes throughout the country. Clearly, the evidence from gardaí is that there are big moves afoot in terms of the drugs business. This is something about which we must be very concerned. Is that an issue he discussed in respect of cross-Border activities, surveillance and confiscation?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is strong co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda Síochána on all of these matters in regard to individual incidents and any trends that may be emerging. I understand there have been some developments on that front in recent days.

This is a security matter where criminal activity is taking place. There is a high degree of cross-Border co-operation at all levels. The Deputy can be assured that in respect of that or any other issue where people are trying to engage in what is basically criminal activity, there is full co-operation between the police forces in both jurisdictions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I wish the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin, well in the discussions taking place at present.

Is the Taoiseach hopeful, having discussed this with the British Prime Minister, that the devolution issue can be completed and that the matters of justice and policing can be devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly? He visited Northern Ireland in the past number of days.

What is the position on the North-South parliamentary forum envisaged under the Good Friday Agreement? Is it likely to be considered next year or if not, is it on the horizon?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the forum, we believe it should be set up by now. Some months ago, we held a consultative meeting in Farmleigh with people from all parts of the island which went very well. It is expected there will be a follow up there in March. Mr. Trevor Ringland and Ms Mary Davis co-chaired it and it went very well. I attended the meeting and I thought the interaction was very good. There is a growing momentum behind this process which I wish to see resolved consistent with the Good Friday Agreement commitment.

I refer to the matter of parliamentary contact or the forum. I understand the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker held a very good meeting recently. I welcome the fact that a parliamentary conference will be set up as a first step with the prospect of establishing a North-South inter-parliamentary group, which would also be very welcome. The more contact there is between public representatives on the island, the greater the chance of identifying and driving a common agenda to the mutual benefit of everyone. These issues are being pursued.

I refer to the question of the role of the Governments in devolution and justice. It should be stated that in all financial aspects the British Prime Minister has moved considerably to assuage any concerns people may have on that front. It requires political will and leadership on everyone's part to ensure that this important and central objective of the peace process is achieved.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the course of his recent engagements with the British Prime Minister, was the Taoiseach made aware of the content or the text of a letter from the First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, to Mr. Gordon Brown regarding his demand that the issues outstanding in respect of Orange Order parades and other issues should be a precondition for the resolution of the already agreed and funded transfer of policing and justice powers from London to Belfast? Would the Taoiseach agree that the issue of the transfer of policing and justice powers is a very pressing one? Would the Taoiseach also acknowledge that there is great concern across a significant section of political opinion not only north of the Border, but throughout the island of Ireland, that there is a demand to put in place further preconditions in advance of this essential development which, I expect, everyone in this House would wish to see at the earliest opportunity? Is the Taoiseach aware of Sinn Féin's position in respect of the Orange Order parades, that is, we believe the resolution of contentious parades can only be achieved through direct dialogue between the Orange Order institution and local residents, and that this is the only means by which contentious parades can be successfully and, I hope, finally resolved?

Would the Taoiseach agree that the overwhelming number of Orange Order parades annually present no issue for the wider Nationalist and republican community and pass off peacefully? As an Irish republican, I recognise that the Orange Order and all that flows from it is a part of what we are as a nation throughout this island. At the earliest opportunity, we urge direct dialogue in respect of the contentious parades not only with local communities, but between the so-called "loyal" institutions and Irish republicans. I trust this will commence a dialogue that will, hopefully, lead to a better understanding and a better climate for engagement in the future.

I refer to the other matter raised by the Taoiseach in his response to the questions tabled. I call on him to confirm to the House again that the freeze on Government funding for the All Ireland Centre of Excellence for Autism at Middletown, County Armagh has indeed been lifted. Will the Taoiseach clarify that a decision has been taken on the full restoration of the funding previously committed? Will the Taoiseach indicate when further development of the centre will proceed? When will that element of the work which had been signalled to take place or proceed in 2009 get under way? When does the Taoiseach expect this will be completed?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I agree the question of devolution of policing and justice to Northern Ireland is a very pressing matter. I agree it must be addressed as a matter of urgency. I agree a good deal of work has been done already which has engendered much public confidence in the process and the support of all sections of the community for devolved policing. It is far preferable to have local public representatives in charge of these areas, those with whom people can interact and relate, rather than the current non-devolved status of those powers which is the case at present. It should be possible to resolve these issues with good will and leadership on all sides. There are a number of issues of concern to the two communities, obviously with different points of emphasis in each case. However, all these matters can be progressed if there is sufficient good will on all sides. Ultimately, there is a need for agreement to be reached among the parties themselves, quite apart from the Governments seeking to move people to agreement as quickly as possible. This matter can and must be resolved and I trust the outcome of ongoing discussions will enable that to take place.

I refer to the question of Middletown. The Minister for Education and Science was in a position to inform the North-South Ministerial Council of the fact that he was lifting the pause on capital and that some interim works would be undertaken. This was welcomed by everyone including the Deputy First Minister, who was very committed to the project when he served as education Minister. We can envisage some developments there in the course of the coming year, consistent with the overall development plan outlined for it.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to two matters related to the response of the Taoiseach. Does the Taoiseach agree that the imperative of the transfer of policing and justice powers from London to Belfast, which as I have already stated has been agreed and to which funding has already been committed, should not face the further obstacle of new preconditions? The proposition by the First Minister that the resolution of outstanding matters in respect of Orange Order parades should become a precondition is a wholly inappropriate and unacceptable further intrusion into what should have been a transfer that proceeded long before now and certainly before the end of this year. Does the Taoiseach agree that there should be no further obstacles placed in the way of a successful transfer of these powers? Will the Taoiseach clarify for the House if he was made aware of the content of the First Minister's correspondence during his recent engagements with the British Prime Minister or, indeed, by any other means prior to his recent meeting with both the First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, and the Deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness?

I refer again to the Centre of Excellence for Autism at Middletown. The Taoiseach may not be able to provide the detail and I accept it might be the case that questions might be more appropriately addressed to the Minister for Education and Science. Nevertheless, will the Taoiseach confirm to the House that the entirety of the commitment which had been, as the Taoiseach's word had it, "paused" during 2009 has now been "unpaused"?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Unpaused is a new word in the lexicon. As to the middletown project, work can begin this year. There was a review of what was being looked at and everybody involved in the project is happy that progress will be made in the coming year. In spite of the difficult financial situation, as a Government we were anxious to assist in the progression of that project in 2010, given the all-Ireland benefit that can be derived from it. It is a further indication of the Government's commitment to move on these sorts of projects when we are in a position to have a clear view of where they are going. I cannot be more specific other than to acknowledge the efforts made by the Minister for Education and Science in the Republic to provide funds to assist in the progression of the project.

The Government officials and the Minister will be made aware of any communication that takes place between the First Minister and the British Prime Minister in respect of issues that would impact on discussions they would have in the normal course of events. During the course of a very extensive meeting with the British Prime Minister on the occasion in question, when both he and the Secretary of State attended a meeting with me and the Minister, I emphasised the need to look at implementing all remaining aspects of these agreements as the context in which progress can be made on all fronts. As far as a part of the Unionist community is concerned, there is an issue regarding whether public confidence is sufficient to enable this to happen. Other issues, including those mentioned by the Deputy, were raised. My view on all these matters is that progress can be made on these issues in that they have their own intrinsic merit with regard to resolution rather than their involving any preconditionality in respect of the other issues, which must be dealt with on their own merits.

At the time, both Prime Ministers indicated May 2008 as the date on which they hoped devolution would take place. A process was agreed between the First and Deputy First Ministers in respect of steps to be taken that would assist in the completion of the project. It has taken some time for that to happen but I now believe that in very great measure all those issues have been dealt with. Now it is political will, judgment and leadership that will enable this to happen. I still believe it is the view of all parties concerned that it should and can happen. I only hope we do not find ourselves in the new year without this matter being resolved because it impacts on the stability of the actual institutions. The imperative must be to find the way forward. There will be issues that must be addressed and these will be addressed not on the basis of preconditions, but in the wider context of full implementation of the Agreement as envisaged. In the past, we have seen that is the best way progress can be made.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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At the next meeting of the heads of the Scottish, Welsh and British Governments, the Taoiseach and the First Minister of Northern Ireland, might it be possible to have as an item for debate and discussion the possibility of the development of a complete interconnector for joining up the production of electricity? If this could happen between all Governments involved, I am certain they could apply jointly for grant aid from the European Union for the development of such a grid because it would pave the way for interconnection into Europe.

Unless all of us on these islands join up, it will not be possible to develop such a super grid in Europe. It is essential for the export and importation of electricity into the future and this arrangement is an ideal opportunity for such talks and such development. A joint approach by all the Governments to set a target for the completion of this interconnector is vitally important not only for Ireland, but for other countries. I am certain that funding will be available from Europe to enable this complete interconnection to take place and for the development of a European super grid.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have a very brief comment before the Taoiseach responds. It is important to note that today EirGrid placed full-page advertisements in the national press indicating it has made the application for the interconnector from County Cavan to the Border, to link up with Northern Ireland Electricity's corresponding development in counties Armagh and Tyrone. I appeal to the Taoiseach that, if funding is being sought for this interconnector on a joint basis, the critical focus should be to have same placed underground. Communities the length and breadth of these counties of Cavan, Monaghan, Meath, Armagh and Tyrone are of one voice, across all opinions and isms, whether Nationalist, republican or Unionist, that the presence of pylons with the various challenges they present in terms of health concerns and impact on respective communities forms a serious risk. It will have a deleterious effect on the landscape and daily life conditions of people, who will be placed in fear. If moneys are to be secured, the real challenge is to place this development underground, in line with the host communities' wishes which must be paramount in any Government's consideration.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Positive vision versus negative delusion.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is of paramount importance and consistent with all the international safety standards we already have in this country that the need for the common good should dominate in this matter. I discussed this with Deputy Enda Kenny during Question Time yesterday. It is time everybody recognised that when we had very little going for us in this country we had rural electrification. People co-operated and ensured that power was brought to every part of every region and that people had a chance to try to move from subsistence living to something decent. We now have a situation where unless a full transmission system is set up in this country, we will put at risk the prospect of economic progress for all those regions. I, for one-----

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Nobody has any objection to the development in principle.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach, without interruption.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This always arises and then another situation is proposed that we know will cost far more than the way it has been done up to now. The suggestion is that everybody's health will be put at risk. There is no intention on the part of any responsible state body, or otherwise, to be involved in anything like that. Promoting that idea and creating agitation to negate progress is not helpful. We must talk to the people candidly, openly and honestly about these issues and must not suggest there is a way the system can be put entirely underground at four times the cost and still leave us with a competitive electricity system and able to create jobs.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Clearly, the Taoiseach has not informed himself.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have informed myself.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Over a 40 year lifespan, it is considered-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I did not interrupt the Deputy.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin, I allowed you considerable latitude on this issue.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----by the highest opinion in Europe that it is much more economically viable to take the underground approach-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to stop interrupting the Taoiseach when he is answering the question.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The problem is the Deputy puts forward a point of view and when somebody disagrees with him he wants to shout it down.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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No. The Taoiseach wants to run a particular arrangement and says there is no other way.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin, please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is only interested in votes and agitation for votes.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is absolute nonsense. My family connections and others will be affected. We are talking here about human and real concerns.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a short life.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We are all concerned.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin, please. The Taoiseach, without interruption.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We are all aware of the human and real concerns. Nobody has a monopoly on human or real concerns. The Deputy certainly does not have one over me. I am simply making the point, which must be made in this House and elsewhere, that the common good has to take over here. We deal with issues according to proper safety standards and so on, but the idea that everyone is being put at risk by reason of promoting transmission systems we have used here for years is not an honest way of proceeding, to be frank.

To come back to the original question, Deputy Barrett makes a good point regarding the level of integration of our various energy and electricity systems on these islands and in what way we can promote better integration and greater economies of scale while achieving a better prospect of more competitive pricing, etc. Scotland's First Minister, Mr. Alex Salmond, and his Administration has the lead responsibility in respect of energy matters under the British-Irish Council format. Arising from the question, I have asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs to write to the First Minister asking him to set out a paper at our next meeting in June, if possible, as to the current level of integration, the proposed plans and the prospects or options they see, as the Administration with the lead responsibility in this area, in terms of co-operating more fully to achieve better outcomes.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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A number of Deputies-----

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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You cannot ride roughshod over whole communities-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin, please-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I never even suggested that. I am sick listening to you talk about it.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There are reasonable alternative proposals as to how-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Caoláin, you are interrupting Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should give way to Deputy Barrett.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He is in order.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for the positive reply. It is important that those who are making statements about the future development of offshore wind and wave projects should not think from a narrow point of view but about the possibilities of massive exports into a European market for the future. I am sick and tired of people making statements which show they do not have the vision to think into the future. We have a golden opportunity of being an exporter of energy into Europe if we put the network and the grid in place. It is vitally important that we work with our colleagues in the other parts of these islands to ensure we have access to a huge European market. I fully support the development of offshore renewable energy as a means of export and the creation of wealth in this country.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with that.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Taoiseach's recent involvement in the talks in Northern Ireland. It is a very delicate time there and, as my party leader said, there is great concern that young people are getting involved in the dissident organisations. The sooner we can get the policing and justice issues settled, the better. I urge the Taoiseach to continue working on that.

On the issue of the National Asset Management Agency, the Taoiseach might give us some more information on how he intends to involve Northern Ireland in that process because the issue of the Ulster Bank and other institutions like that causes problems. During his discussions with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister did the issue of the Presbyterian Mutual Society arise? It is a fairly small banking structure that is causing significant problems for people in that organisation north and south of the Border.

I understand the Taoiseach made further comment on his commitment, on behalf of our Government, to the Dublin-Derry road. That is an extremely important dual carriageway from Derry to Aughnacloy, but I ask the Taoiseach to keep in mind that that road will come to a dead end at Aughnacloy if something is not done between Aughnacloy and Castleshane. We need to plan for that as well.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I said earlier that a constructive relationship has developed between our Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and his counterpart in the Northern Ireland Administration, Mr. Sammy Wilson, on these NAMA issues which have been discussed at plenary sessions of the North-South Ministerial Council in terms of updating people on the position and the fact that we have now enacted the legislation and are moving to operationalise the agency. Both sides are happy with the level of information flow that is taking place and concerns are being addressed as people raise them. Some of them may have legitimacy; others might well be concerns people have and, in terms of explaining how it will operate, those concerns are dispelled in great measure.

There was not a specific discussion on the Presbyterian Mutual Society. Obviously, this is a matter for bilateral contact between respective finance Ministers and officials as to whether anything can be done in that regard.

In regard to the A5 and the A8 which are going ahead, progress can be reported. The contracts are being divided into three separate contracts within the Northern Ireland area for which local contracting firms compete and successfully obtain tenders. The level of progress made to date has been welcomed. As the Deputy is aware, we are committed to that project not only as an opportunity to demonstrate North-South co-operation, but because it is very much in our own interest in how we develop the north west that we co-operate with the Northern Ireland Administration to effect a roadway which will greatly improve access to a very beautiful part of the country and one that, with greater co-operation, can be exploited fully to the mutual benefit of all communities in that area.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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What about the Monaghan section?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should ask the Minister.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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To return to the policing issue, I listened to the reply the Taoiseach gave to Deputy Ó Caoláin. I want to underline the urgency about getting the policing and justice issues devolved. First, it was agreed and therefore that agreement should be implemented. Second, all of the parties represented on the Executive support the devolution of policing and have expressed that view publicly. I suppose it is a unique set of circumstances in Northern Ireland in that the main political parties representing a wide cross-section of the communities in Northern Ireland now accept the policing service, the necessity for policing and the public control of that policing.

At the same time, there are disturbing signals in Northern Ireland, including a situation I mentioned earlier involving the relationship between the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, a sense of exclusion by the other two parties represented in the Executive and the worrying signs of the emergence of a new generation of dissidents. It cannot be in anybody's political interest or the interest of any of the parties represented on the Executive to delay the devolution of policing and there is a window now, before politics in Northern Ireland moves into the Westminster election phase, for that devolution to be completed. It is something the two Governments will have to try to leverage in some way. I urge the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who is present, to proceed with that because the circumstances are right for it. The political climate in terms of acceptance of policing across the communities is right also and it would be a tragedy if that opportunity was missed because of obstacles being raised which had not been raised previously.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with all of what the Deputy said. The important point is to try to ensure that it happens in a timely fashion and in a way which is satisfactory to everyone and on the basis that the process, as envisaged, has been dealt with and completed. I agree with the Deputy. Sometimes one tries to resolve problems on the basis of disagreements between people. It is a question of timing in terms of whether it will happen or when it will happen.

The question of public confidence has been brought into the equation, but I believe there is confidence on both sides of the community. It is for other party leaders to judge that as well but I genuinely believe there is confidence that the devolution of policing and justice powers to Northern Ireland will command cross-community support. I believe the time has arrived for us to try to get that decision implemented.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Very briefly, Deputy. Question Time to the Taoiseach is completed.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On the issue of putting the electricity power lines overhead or underground in terms of the non-ionising radiation from power lines, it is much safer from a health and safety point of view to have them overhead than one metre underground.

It has long been established that it is much safer from a health and safety point of view.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is correct.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That completes Taoiseach's Question Time. We will move on.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Stagg for his constructive comments and welcome, for the first time, his contribution. I encourage Deputy Stagg to continue in that constructive vein for the rest of his political career.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Is positivity radiating across the Chamber? It is the season of goodwill.