Dáil debates
Wednesday, 16 December 2009
Other Questions
National Drugs Strategy.
10:00 pm
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Question 26: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the reductions in budget 2010 on local drugs initiatives, particularly on the development outlined in the new National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 announced three months ago; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47143/09]
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 30: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the aims of the recently published national drugs strategy will prove achievable in view of the cutbacks in drugs-related expenditure in budget 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47082/09]
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 and 30 together.
I am satisfied that the objectives of the National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 will be achieved despite the cuts in funding for 2010. When the strategy was launched in September last, it was clear that its implementation would have to be achieved in the context of more limited funding in the short to medium term. At that time I identified the optimum use of the available resources as being essential, with a strong focus on the further development of interagency work. This approach will facilitate the delivery of more efficient and effective services, leading to improved outcomes for people who are affected by the drugs problem.
As part of the implementation process, I met all drugs task forces over the past few months and the expected position in regard to funding for 2010 was among the issues discussed in all cases. I emphasised the need to prioritise projects with a view to ensuring the most effective use of resources and the most beneficial outcomes for service users. Needs and priorities change over time and, consequently, drugs task forces and service providers must ensure that funding is realigned to match changing circumstances. The task forces are fully engaged in this process and I have given them the scope to redirect funding within their allocations to best address the realigned priorities they identified for their areas of operation. I am satisfied this approach will minimise the impact from the reduction in funding in 2010.
As part of the strategy, I intend twice a year to meet a number of Ministers and various senior officials who are tasked with implementing various actions in the strategy. I have completed the first round of such meetings and have stressed the need for Departments and agencies to ensure that high priority is given to achieving the objectives of the strategy. These meetings facilitated a good exchange of views and focused on the importance of the continued effective implementation of other programmes that affect the broader issues underpinning problem drug use.
Members should also note that a drugs advisory group has been set up under the new strategy, with membership from across the statutory, community and voluntary sectors. This group meets regularly, advises me on operational and policy matters relating to the national drugs strategy and oversees and supports the work of the drugs task forces. An oversight forum on drugs, OFD, which I chair, has been also established and the first meeting was held in October. The primary role of the oversight forum is the ongoing high level examination of progress across the strategy and addressing of any operational difficulties and blockages that may arise. Against this background, I have asked for progress reports by later this month from all Department and agencies that have lead responsibility for actions of the strategy. The reports will cover the status of progress on the actions and the plans and time scale for full implementation. The outcome of this process will feed into the next meeting of the forum in January and robust performance management will continue throughout the implementation period of the strategy.
While there will be some reduction in the resources available in 2010, the overall amount of money available to tackle the drugs problem will still be considerable. I remind Deputies that more than €275 million was made available to tackle the drugs problem across Departments and agencies in 2009 and considerable progress is being made. At the same time, the difficulties facing our society as a consequence of problem drug use are significant, and addressing all the factors involved will not be easy. However, I am determined that real progress will continue to be made across the period of the strategy, with all sectors working in a co-ordinated and targeted way to achieve implementation of the agreed actions.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister of State saying that in the past too much money was spent on these programmes or that the money spent was not used efficiently or effectively? He now seems to be able to make do with less money. Has there ever been an analysis of the cost of the illegal drug trade to the State, in terms of policing, crime, education and health? Is the illegal drug trade in the State increasing or decreasing? Will he comment on heroin misuse? It is reported it is becoming a significant problem, especially in rural areas across the country. How will cutting back on funding impact on the fight against the heroin problem and drug misuse generally in the State?
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We had a charade regarding the national drugs strategy a few weeks ago. I was there, as was the Taoiseach and the Minister. Were we codding those involved in trying to do something for those affected by drugs? At that stage the Government was deciding on the Estimates. The Taoiseach, the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, and the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, knew exactly what was happening regarding the cut backs. Deputy Stanton has asked the questions I wanted to ask. What projects will be cut? What areas of the country will be affected? Will anything be delivered, other than the new strategy in 2010? I spoke to Deputy Byrne earlier. She is somebody who has represented her area very well and had a great understanding-----
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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15 seconds, Deputy.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have been waiting since 4 p.m. today.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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You know the rules of the House. There is one minute per speaker.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Excuse me. No, I have a question - Question No. 30.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, you know the rules as well as I do. Complete your point.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I see this man giving you the indicator about the rules. We are the Members and I had this with officials before.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is not elected by anybody. I am elected. Do not aggravate me at this hour of the night. He is elected by nobody and I see him sending up messages.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ring, you will obey the rules. Other speakers are waiting.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let them in. We have until 10.30 p.m. I have waited until 4 p.m. today when you moved Question Time because it is community, rural and Gaeltacht affairs and it does not count.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, complete your questions please.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Thank you. I am speaking through the Chair.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mitchell wants to abolish the Department.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, you are over time. Will you complete your question please.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If you had left me alone, I would have the question asked by now, Chairman. If the official had not been sending you messages, I would be well finished by now.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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I am reading the messages and I know them as well.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes. He is good. He is not elected by anyone. I am elected by the people. Before I was interrupted by the official and the Acting Chairman-----
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Excuse me, Deputy, you were not interrupted by any official.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I see him sending messages to you.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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You were interrupted by me, the Acting Chairman.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Excuse me. I had an interesting experience last week. It looks like I could have another one now. Will you please obey the rules of the House.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know the rules of the House well. I have been in here longer than you.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and that means you have one minute to address the Minister. Please complete your contribution.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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You keep interrupting me. If you stopped interrupting me I would be finished. Was it a farce to announce the national drugs strategy when the money is not in place? Deputy Byrne has done a great deal of work regarding people affected by drugs and because they are not powerful enough to come and lobby outside the House, it was easy to cut their funding. I will address the comment on Deputy Mitchell in a moment.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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One aspect of the strategy about which I am concerned in a broader context is local drugs taskforces and their presence on the ground, in terms of the public relations exercise which should happen. How are they linking with all the community activities and schools? How are they talking to the local newspapers and radio stations? I do not believe that is happening. I am deeply concerned that the confidence needed to fight this awful habit which is now a problem in many urban and rural communities. How can we gel the whole system together to give confidence to parents and so on?
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Ten seconds, Deputy.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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Please. Forget it, I will sit down. You need not bother answering the question, Minister.
Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister said there is a difficult time ahead for everybody, given the funding situation. I have a question regarding the cut of 11% in the drugs initiative programme. This morning, a spokesperson for Ballyfermot youth centre spoke on a radio programme about the project it runs for young children, in particular teenagers in school. It is a six-week programme called "can you hack it" which deals with addiction to cocaine, hash, alcohol and other drugs. Next year it will have to close the project because its funding through the drugs initiative has been cut. If there was ever a time when we needed to educate young people here about drugs it is now.
I ask the Minister to speak to the people in Ballyfermot youth club and see if there is any way this project, which has done wonders for young people in the area in terms of keeping them out of a problem which is rife throughout communities, can be kept in place. The problem will be solved through education, not through other measures. If we are to stop the scourge of drugs in this country, we have to start by educating young people. It does not need to be done through schools; it can be done in communities in the way it is being done here, which is the correct way to go.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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What will the Minister do about the Ministers or Departments which are withdrawing their commitment to the strategy? His Department co-ordinates the strategy. I refer specifically to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe. Can the Minister knock heads together and get all the Ministers together who were part of the strategy when the Taoiseach launched it some weeks ago? I do not know what the structures are - the Cabinet sub-committee or the IDG may deal with this area. It must be very embarrassing that some of the Minister's Cabinet colleagues are walking away from the strategy. Over the year this money was moved from his Department to the Department of Education and Science. It was included in the education ELS. Will the Minister meet the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, get the money back for his Department and run the projects?
Deputy Byrne referred to Ballyfermot. There are a number of educational projects in my area of Finglas and Ballymun. We could understand a cut of 10% or 11% because that is the world in which we now live. Projects will have to live with that. Ministers are announcing they are withdrawing their commitment with regard to money which was transferred from their Departments several years ago. I ask the Minister to get that money back and run the projects himself. He is responsible for them and his Department is the co-ordinator for the strategy. Ministers cannot be allowed to carry on like that.
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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How long do I have to answer these questions?
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Bear with me. I will be as quick----
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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We will bear with you. Please do not waste time.
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I will try to be as direct as possible.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will take no lectures from you, Chairman.
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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Listen to the Minister of State's answers.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will take no lectures from you, thank you, or anyone like you.
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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To answer the last question on funding from other Departments for the drugs strategy, I understand the project to which Deputy Byrne referred is one which was funded by the Department of Education and Science. I will answer the question in that context, but if it is not I will revert to the Deputy after the debate. Our drug advisory group met today. Unfortunately I could not attend the meeting because the business of the House was voted upon. One issue which arose concerned the Department of Education and in that context I will meet the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe.
This aspect related to projects that were mainstreamed and originally funded from another Department. I can confirm that projects that are mainstreamed to the HSE while there will be a percentage cut, it is in the order of 5% or 7% and not of the same scale. So those projects may experience some difficulty, but not a withdrawal of funding as has been indicated in this case with the Department of Education and Science. I will meet the Minister for Education and Science to ascertain the rationale and what can be done to address it.
Deputy Stanton asked about the analysis of costs. Figures for the total package of costs do not seem to exist in the global sense that he requested. He also asked how we would do things better and whether the entire strategy was a farce. It is not a farce, far from it. Considerable work went into developing the strategy. Let me make this point forcefully. It is not my strategy, but the strategy of the people involved in the area. Considerable consultation went into it and it runs for an extended period. While incrementally in any given year we might not achieve as much as we want, if we do not have a sense of direction as to where we are going, we are at nothing. The strategy clearly sets out a direction. My job as Minister of State with responsibility for the strategy is to try to progress it year on year, but it is not based on any one year. I met representatives of all the task forces earlier in the year and indicated to them that inevitably there would be some level of reduction in funding. While the headline reduction figure across the area is 11%, the reduction in the level of funding to the local task forces is in the order of 8.5% and the regional task forces, on which we spent €10 million in 2009, will receive €10 million again this year. The reason for this is the level service provided by the regional task forces would not have developed as much.
I agree with Deputy Stanton that heroin use has increased throughout the country. The anecdotal evidence and a number of recent surveys have shown that. It emerged out of Dublin, extended down the east coast and throughout Leinster and is now around the southern part of the country. While it is also a problem in other parts of the country, those would be the parts where it is most prevalent. We would have had the anecdotal evidence of that from people presenting for treatment, etc., and we have dealt with it. We have worked with the HSE to have new clinical capacity available in Carlow, Kilkenny, Wexford, Cork, Tralee and Limerick all operational in the first quarter of next year. While clinics are of great value they are nothing without the back-up of what we call "level 2" GPs. At the moment, unfortunately, people from some of those areas need to travel to Dublin. The funding for that was put in place last year. The secret of success when there is less money involves a commitment from the HSE to reorganise the way it is doing business. It is providing clinical staff in those centres from within its existing allocation of resources. That is how we will make progress.
While the level of funding has reduced, so has our cost of living. I spoke to representatives of task forces and asked them to carefully consider efficiencies. They need to review their rents, overheads and use of manpower. Those who are employed as counsellors need to be used for counselling services and facilities need to be shared, etc. That is what each task force has undertaken to do. While people may disagree, yesterday when the Taoiseach was asked a question he indicated that our cost of living had dropped back to what it was in February 2007. In February 2007 the funding we made available to task forces was less than €28 million. The funding we are allocating to task forces this year, while less than last year is considerably more than it was in 2007 and is in the region of €31 million. While I am not taking away from the difficulties it will pose for task forces to live within that, if we reorganise and co-ordinate better and seek efficiencies, particularly in the areas of administration and overheads, I believe that we should be able to deliver again this coming year all of the front-line services we delivered in 2009.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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May I ask a supplementary question because one of the questions was tabled in my name?
Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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We are nearly five minutes over time.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is the level of illegal drug use increasing or decreasing across the country?
John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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From the data available on the general prevalence of use, illegal drug use seems to be increasing slightly.