Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is the last opportunity we will have to ask questions to the Leader until the Dáil resumes after the recess.

Yesterday I raised the matter of welfare cuts being applied to the blind, carers and the disabled. The total saving is €108 million. The Taoiseach responded by stating expenditure on social welfare was more than €20 billion and that it was necessary to reduce expenditure by €4 billion this year. He made the point that it is very easy for Opposition parties to put forward the view that all such cuts are easy. I have never put forward the proposition that it is easy to make cuts.

What is happening is that, for the first time in 80 years, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs has become the victimiser of victims in that the poorest of the poor are being hit. I received a telephone call this morning from a blind man who told me this is the first time the question of blind people was raised in the House in this context. He also stated the allowance for the training of guide dogs is being cut.

This is the last week before Christmas. The Taoiseach set up the McCarthy group to determine where cuts could be made in the public sector. Fine Gael accepted quite a few of its recommendations. It recommended cuts in administrative expenditure in the Department of the Taoiseach in the order of €17.5 million. It recommended administrative cuts of €88 million in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, €82.8 million in the Department of Finance, €432 million in the Department of Health and Children and the Health Service Executive and €6 million in the Department of Social and Family Affairs. These cuts are not easy to make because they require direct negotiation with the people involved, including back-office staff and administrators.

I have picked the five aforementioned Departments because they demonstrate clearly the administrative cuts recommended by the body the Taoiseach set up. The Taoiseach stated quite rightly yesterday that budgets are about choices. None of them is easy but there is only one correct option when choosing between administrative cuts in any of the five Departments, or in a number of Departments, with a view to making cuts of €108 million, and cuts to the benefits of those who are caring for their loved ones, those who are means-tested for the blind person's pension, and the disabled. The Taoiseach should protect those who are absolutely vulnerable and the poorest of the poor.

With regard to the five Departments, what administrative costs were accepted by the Government arising from the McCarthy recommendations? The Taoiseach set up the McCarthy group. He considered its recommendations and chose the option of cutting the benefits of the blind, carers and the disabled.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I differ from Deputy Kenny in that I do not believe there is a choice between one approach and the other. All expenditure must be reduced and it is being reduced. The administrative budgets are multi-annual, as the Deputy knows. Over the three years of the budgets we will seek to reduce administrative budgets along the lines suggested. We started this process this year. It is not a question of "either or". All areas of expenditure, including social welfare-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Especially social welfare.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Durkan, please.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It does not matter, it is Christmas time. The fact of the matter is that all social and economic expenditure must be reduced.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should answer the question.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Therefore, I do not accept the contention that it is a choice between one and the other. We will still have a deficit of €18.8 billion and an Exchequer borrowing requirement next year. The Deputy's proposal that we can sustain social welfare provision at €22 billion in the present circumstances is not an option.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about those who were not touched?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It must be said candidly to the people that it is not an option.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I find it somewhat amusing that the Taoiseach should contend I am suggesting one could sustain a social welfare budget of €22 billion. I made no such contention.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What is the Deputy saying?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a question of choice for the Taoiseach and I contend he made the wrong choice. The way one should attack the welfare issue first is to stimulate employment so that many of the 427,000 people on the live register will be taken off it and return to work. Thus, we will be able to trade our way out of difficulty. The Taoiseach did not adopt this approach in his budget.

I have chosen three areas in the welfare budget as we approach the end of this year. These areas concern carers, the blind and disabled. I am not suggesting one should maintain a social welfare budget of €22 billion because one can reduce that if one provides work. Arising from the recommendations of the McCarthy group, which the Taoiseach established to make such recommendations to him and his colleagues, he made certain choices. With regard to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, including FÁS, in respect of which Department the group recommended administrative cuts of €88 million, the Taoiseach decided to make no administrative cut. Despite all the scandals about overpayments, golden handshakes, superior pensions and worldwide travel, the cut in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment was nil.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not true.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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There were cars too.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is a choice the Taoiseach made based on a recommendation received by him from the McCarthy report. He is looking for savings of €108 million out of a budget of €22 billion. He could protect the blind, the disabled and the carers at this time of the year, a time when we are celebrating the Christian ethos we are supposed to have.

There have been no cuts to the administrative budgets of the Departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment or Social and Family Affairs, a cut of €12 million in the Department of the Taoiseach, €62 million in the Department of Finance and €110 million in the Department of Health and Children. These total €184 million out of a recommended €600 million in administrative cuts. The Taoiseach could have quadrupled the savings in respect of what is required for the disabled, the carers and the blind but he did not do so.

After he leaves the Chamber this morning, the Taoiseach should call his colleagues together and accept the Opposition's claim that there are options. Savings of more than the €108 million in question would have been made if the Government implemented its anti-fraud measures properly or got rid of the quangos Fine Gael has pointed out. If it took the administrative cuts recommended for several Departments, it would have made the savings to allow the blind, the disabled and the carers have some sense of Christian feeling from the Government.

For the first time in 80 years a Government has not just made cuts but cut from the poorest of the poor. It has cut from those who are means-tested, blind, disabled, those who are listening this morning knowing the Government has no intention but of doing them down.

On the last Leaders' Questions for this year, will the Taoiseach go up to his office to give an instruction that these cuts in the allowances for the disabled, carers and the blind be reversed? I have given him three opportunities as to how he can do so.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have explained to Deputy Kenny that he is inaccurate in what he has claimed. The administrative cut in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment amounted to €46 million. I do not have the specific details but the idea there will be no cuts in administration is ridiculous. I have explained to Deputy Kenny that the allocations referred to in the McCarthy report are multi-annual allocations for three years.

The position the country is in requires the Government to look at all areas of expenditure. We carefully considered any reductions in social welfare payments. We ensured the 470,000 pensioners and the 450,000 children in low-income and welfare-dependent families would not be affected. The Government sought everything it could.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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They have had cuts made before.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The McCarthy report recommended a 5% cut in all welfare rates. The Government, however, did not go down that road. It made a choice which seeks to maintain the real purchasing power of welfare payments against a background of a drop in the cost of living of 6.6% in 2009.

I understand and acknowledge welfare rates, irrespective of whether the €8.30 has been removed, are not easy to live on. In the interests of retaining the many hundreds of thousands of payments made every week and every year, the present position was not sustainable and adjustments had to be made. The adjustment made in the particular heading of expenditure in question was less than the other adjustments made in capital, programme and public service pay expenditure.

That was the choice facing the Government. It had to make those choices in as carefully a calibrated way as possible. I acknowledge people will receive a reduced rate of payment as a result. However, we are doing so to keep a sustainable system going, not on the basis that there was some easy choice. We have to come back to the fact that the country is spending far more than what it is taking in in revenues all the time. If we do not address this position, we will have an even greater adjustment to have to contemplate than has been the case thus far.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Government just scorched the poor.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It ruined the country.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This week last year Mr. Seán FitzPatrick resigned as chairman of Anglo Irish Bank after it was revealed he had been moving personal loans off the books of Anglo Irish Bank to another institution and then back again in order to conceal them. At the time, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, expressed his disappointment.

Since then, we have had a high profile Garda raid on the bank and have been told the Director of Corporate Enforcement is doing some kind of an investigation. However, no one has been called to book for what happened in the bank.

Since then, too, Anglo Irish Bank has been nationalised. Some €4 billion of taxpayers' money has been put into it while another €7 billion has been put into AIB and Bank of Ireland. Between them, it comes to €11,000 million of taxpayers' money. It is the largest bank robbery ever, expect on this occasion it is the banks robbing the people.

Despite this, the banks are still not lending to business as they should be. This year, the Taoiseach is marking the anniversary of Mr. FitzPatrick's resignation by cutting the pay of the lowest paid workers in the public service and the welfare allowances to the blind, the disabled and carers. Yesterday, the new Governor of the Central Bank expressed the opinion there should a 9/11 style inquiry set up to examine what happened in the banks, why it was allowed to happen and who had responsibility. Does the Taoiseach accept this call for a 9/11 style inquiry into the banks? If so, will he come back to the House in the new year with the proposals from the Government for the establishment of such an inquiry?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I read in this morning's newspaper about what the Governor of the Central Bank said to an Oireachtas committee. From my point of view, the resources of the State are currently involved in ensuring banking stability and that we can deal with the economic and financial issues that arise. I am sure there will be economic historians and economists who will continue to talk about the failure of the regulatory system in this and other countries regarding the challenge faced by us.

However, I would have to carefully consider such an inquiry before giving any commitment. As we know from the Abbeylara case, there are limitations on Oireachtas committees being able to inquire into questions of fact. There is also the question of other established inquires which are still ongoing and to what extent they have been able to deal with the issues in a timely fashion that does not undermine but maintains confidence in our banking system. This initiative would have to be carefully considered.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I wish to correct the Taoiseach on one matter. It is not the resources of the State that are dealing with the banking situation; it is the people's money.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is the Department of Finance.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Some €11,000 million of the people's money has been put into the banks by the Taoiseach. He makes it sound as if the call made yesterday by the Governor of the Central Bank was from some disinterested economist writing in some obscure journal. This is the Governor of the Central Bank who was appointed by the Taoiseach's Government to oversee the banks.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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He takes his job seriously.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He thinks there should be an inquiry. He is not the first to do so. When the Taoiseach first came into the House with his bank guarantee idea, the Labour Party proposed the sending in of an inspector to the banks. We proposed an oversight committee for NAMA. Mr. Colm McCarthy, highly favoured on the Taoiseach's side of the House, proposed there should be a DIRT-style inquiry. There were suggestions there would be some kind of a parliamentary investigation. The word on the grapevine, however, is that the Taoiseach himself blocked the holding of a parliamentary investigation into the banking situation.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is a real Sticky tactic.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He did so because he does not want an investigation-----

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore is checking the book. I am reading it at the moment.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----into what happened in the banks because it will expose the close connection that exists between Fianna Fáil, developers and bankers. He does not want an investigation because it would expose the fact that the regulatory authorities did not do their jobs.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore may have changed the name of his party but he has not changed much himself.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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An investigation would also expose the fact that the Taoiseach presided over this when Minister for Finance. He is afraid that in an inquiry the track will lead to his door. That is the reason he will not allow it and for the response he has just given. This is not going to go away.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The people of this country are paying dearly for the failure of our banking system, through cuts in pay and social welfare payments, services and the unavailability of credit from the banks. We are not going to draw a line under this. We are not going to say that was then and this is now and let us all move forward.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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We know that. The Deputy is making all sorts of scurrilous allegations.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The people of this country are entitled to know what type of carry on was going on in the banks that led to the mess we are in now. Just because the Taoiseach was Minister for Finance at the time and is afraid that political culpability will land at his door is not a good enough reason to block the type of inquiry that the Governor of the Central Bank has asked for.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Nice piece of political rhetoric but absolutely baseless in terms of the facts.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is not baseless. Why will the Taoiseach not allow an inquiry?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is baseless in terms of the facts. This is the usual story from Deputy Gilmore. Throw out a smear and see if the Taoiseach will deny it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The €11 billion is a true fact.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton, please.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is the oldest trick in the book. The Deputy has been at it for years. The fact of the matter is-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The sum of €4 billion is a true fact.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----I have simply made a point that a comment made by the Governor of the Central Bank would have to be carefully considered by Government. That is what I said. We want to ensure-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That the guilty go free.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----that the resources - I am speaking about the Department of Finance and elsewhere in Departments of State - are prioritised in terms of maintaining banking stability and ensuring that we are able to deal with the restructuring of the banking sector that is currently being undertaken.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Do not upset them.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Those are priorities and important matters. They are important in terms of engendering confidence in the direction this country is going.

The historical issues that arise-----

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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They are not historical, they are outstanding.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----as a result of what has happened in recent times are issues that will have to be carefully considered by Government. There are a number of considerations that have to be taken into account and this matter cannot be dealt with willy nilly. The matter will have to be carefully considered by Government.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Very careful.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We now move on to Questions to the Taoiseach.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, used a term that is not permitted in the House under the salient rulings of this House.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must confess I did not hear any derogatory remark made.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle should check the record. It might be a relatively mild term by modern standards but I do believe the term "scurrilous" is not permitted in this House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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If the remark from the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, was directed at me I will regard it as a badge of honour.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I certainly did not hear the remark.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will call to the Ceann Comhairle's Office.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Varadkar has obviously never been hit by a Meath half back before.