Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the steps he has taken in recent months to decrease the likelihood of further tiger kidnappings. [46446/09]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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These so-called "tiger" kidnappings are among the most frightening and vicious crimes which could be committed against any individual. I am sure all Members will join me in condemning them outright. The investigation of crime is the operational responsibility of An Garda Síochána, and the Government continues to offer its fullest support to our Garda Commissioner and his officers in this regard. Regular meetings between An Garda Síochána and financial institutions are held to discuss bank security issues and, in particular, kidnapping prevention and response protocols. The confidential response procedures in place for dealing with such incidents are detailed and comprehensive. They typically include advice on personal security for staff members, advice on systems and processes for the conveyance, storage and dispersal of cash and, crucially, procedures to be followed where an employee is a target of criminal elements intent on exerting pressure to hand over cash.

The Deputy will be aware that the Garda Commissioner and I had a useful meeting with the chief executives of various financial institutions last month to discuss the threat of "tiger" kidnappings and to outline our concerns in this regard. However, it is crucial that the protocols in place are followed, and both the Garda Commissioner and I emphasised this to the banks at our meeting. I also met representatives of employees of financial institutions to hear their views and discuss what more can be done to ensure their safety. I assured them, as I assure the House, that An Garda Síochána's absolute priority when responding to an incident of this kind is to ensure that no harm comes to the victims. I again stress that I do not underestimate the pressure under which people who are the victims of "tiger" kidnappings are placed.

The crucial message to understand is that it is in the interests of everyone, and in particular the staff in the financial institutions, that the agreed security protocols are observed. These are in place, first and foremost, to protect employees. It is important to recognise that only by rendering such kidnapping attempts unsuccessful will we stop them happening and, thereby, protect innocent employees and their loved ones from being caught up in them in the future.

On the wider question of the large amount of cash in circulation in our society, I have discussed this matter with the Minister for Finance and he is establishing a new Government task force, on which my Department and An Garda Síochána will be represented, charged with devising a strategy to reduce the levels of cash in everyday use.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Members and the wider public will be aware of the emergence of a clear pattern. "Tiger" kidnappings are occurring on a more frequent basis and are becoming progressively more violent. A pattern is emerging whereby in the immediate aftermath of such an horrendous occurrence, the Minister has a meeting with either the Garda Commissioner or the chief executives of the financial institutions, or both. Besides having a couple of hastily convened and highly publicised meetings, what is happening to avert tiger kidnappings and cash in transit and ATM theft? What counter-surveillance personnel training have bank staff received to ensure a certain awareness on their part of how to deal with such a situation? The protocols and codes of practice that the Minister mentioned, not only with regard to tiger kidnapping but also to cash in transit, have not seen real improvement. It is reported that in cases these protocols have been agreed but are not implemented.

We need an entire change of emphasis. We do not use appropriate smart technology. We do not use smart boxes for cash in transit. What we use in this jurisdiction for the conveyance of cash has been abandoned as obsolete and outmoded in other jurisdictions. However, here the Minister speaks about protocols, none of which are in place.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It would be wrong and improper of me to go into detail on the type of surveillance and counter-surveillance training made available to the employees of banks and other financial institutions.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I accept that.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The banks and the Garda use best international practice in training, protocols and the smart technology. I have seen some caustic remarks in this respect but in my meetings with the banks what has come across very strongly is that the amount of cash in our society is way higher than in any other state in proportion to our population and it is something we must cure by taking it out of the system. I do not accept what Deputy Flanagan stated on the use of boxes. It is available to the banks and they have invested in this respect. However, on occasion, because of certain circumstances on any given day there may be a large amount of cash in a bank. With regard to an increase in this type of crime, the figures show that there were three attempts in 2005, nine attempts in 2006, four attempts in 2007 and 2008, and there have been five attempts this year. They have become more vicious and more targeted at lower level bank officials and I have stated this publically.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I refute what the Minister stated about the use of modern smart technology. Recently, the private security industry purchased high-level security vans from Denmark. One sees them around town with left-hand drives. The reason they are coming here is because they are outdated and outmoded. There is no need for high-level security vans if the appropriate technology and computer chip is present to ensure the money is destroyed after the expiry of a certain time limit.

The type of training the Minister spoke about to the House does not appear to exist. The level of training that bank staff have in counter-surveillance is nil. Will he ensure at the next meeting with bank executives and the Garda Commissioner that he will seek an audit of the type of training available to banks, who gets it, where it is given and how it is given to ensure the risks are identified and bank personnel are trained. A problem exists because this is not happening and the Minister suggests that it is.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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My information is that it is. However, all of the training in the world will not cure a position where someone's family is put at risk. In fairness to the people in this area, no matter how well they would be trained it would depend on the person involved. Where the protocols on tiger kidnappings are adhered to there have been very significant successes. Where they have not been followed, and I do not state that as any criticism of the people involved, the incidents were completed to the benefit of the criminals. That is why we state that while the protocols exist to prevent it from happening again, their primary focus is the protection of staff.