Dáil debates

Wednesday, 11 November 2009

11:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 28, Statements on European Council, Brussels; No. 29, Labour Services (Amendment) Bill 2009 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 27, Public Transport Regulation Bill 2009 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the proceedings on No. 28 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 85 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, (ii) a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes and (iii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and (2) the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 28, whichever is the later, until 2.30 p.m.

Private Members' business shall be No. 75, motion re accountability of Government agencies and companies (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 28 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the suspension of the sitting under Standing Order 23(1) agreed to? Agreed. We will move on.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle has his own way of doing things. I ask the Taoiseach if it is his intention to introduce legislation to give a statutory basis to the voluntary code announced by banks regarding the repossession of houses. When the Minister for Finance introduced the guarantee, he noted that we are deeply embedded in banks and he has since made reference in the National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009 to having authority over the banks. As a large number of Deputies have noted, this is a matter of concern to thousands of people. Being unable to repay one's mortgage can cause an unbelievable level of shock and distress. I accept the banks are saying that repossessing houses is the last thing they want to do but it may be necessary to give legal standing to the voluntary code.

Is it the intention to introduce legislation to give effect to reform of the HSE? Deputy Reilly has on several occasions spoken about the ten houses built at St. Ita's in Portrane for intellectually challenged patients which cannot be opened because 42 nurses are required to make this possible. I have with me evidence from County Galway that 100 nurses have had to leave for England and other places. Their relocation allowances are being paid by hospitals there, including the Royal Berkshire, Whipps Cross and Bristol hospitals. We are in a serious situation with jobs no longer available for front line staff, some of whom will march in Dublin today, in particular, nurses, physiotherapists, speech and language therapists and occupational therapists. We train these professionals at great expense and to a very high standard. Perhaps the Taoiseach will advise if he will give legal effect to the changes that have been talked about so often.

The Ceann Comhairle was kind enough to write to the leaders of the parties informing us that we have been speaking for too long. In that respect, I will finish up very soon. Last week, he also hauled up Deputy Gilmore when he said the Deputy's time was up.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That was my fault. Deputy Kenny should not blame the Ceann Comhairle.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach had just given a long, ten minute reply to a question from the Deputy. I do not have the times-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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My letter was issued to all leaders, including the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If I overrun, I apologise and will try to keep within the limits. Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle will have his office indicate to us how long the contributions of the party leaders have been since he took office. This will show us the degree of guilt, blame or culpability we should bear based on the time penalties the Ceann Comhairle wants to impose on us.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Will the calculations include interruptions?

On the question of people who find themselves in mortgage arrears, the matter is under the aegis of the Financial Regulator and the codes involved arise in that body. Primary legislation in that respect is not needed since the codes arise out of arrangements made in terms of how mortgage lenders are required to behave in respect of this matter, based on the monitoring done by the regulator. That is the way in which to deal with the issue as it provides the necessary flexibility to react and do the job.

I welcome the recent statement because it is helpful in the context of the idea that was gaining ground that at the end of the six month period - 12 months in respect of the two main banks - there would be an avalanche of repossession orders and people would be forcibly removed from their homes. That is not the case. The announcements made this week have been helpful. People who are in arrears need to know what is the factual position. While I do not wish to minimise the difficulties such people have by reason of going into arrears and the anxiety and concern that this can cause, they should, as in every situation, make contact with their mortgage lender and sit down to ensure there is a full understanding of their situation. A protocol has been devised by the banks, mortgage lenders and Money Advice and Budgeting Service.

Arrangements are, therefore, in place to ensure difficulties are dealt with in as humane a manner as possible and to acknowledge the difficulties people face. It is not necessary to suggest that there is no framework in place to enable people to deal with this situation as best they can in the period ahead and have the matter reviewed on a six monthly basis. The decision is a wise one and it is important the message gets out and people know what is the position.

I am not suggesting that the difficulty no longer arises because the debt on the mortgage obviously remains. However, rescheduling and working in a fair and equitable fashion with people who are sufficiently concerned that they will meet those with whom they have done business to rearrange and reschedule payments is the right thing to do in everyone's interest. That is the message that needs to get out in order that people do not believe they are being given a grace period of six or 12 months, after which a totally different approach will be adopted. People need to know that is not the case.

The codes in place are based on the arrangements. The financial regulatory authority, IFSRA, is a statutory body and the codes of conduct arise out of the relationship between the statutory powers of the Financial Regulator in monitoring and overseeing how mortgage lenders behave. There is, therefore, a basis for this. The important point is that what happens in practice is that the codes of conduct are adhered to.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The local government (Dublin mayor) Bill is listed in section C of the legislative programme, which means the heads have not yet been approved by the Government. The problem is the Government has announced, through the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, that it intends that a direct election of a Dublin mayor will take place next summer. We do not yet know what the mayor will do, as no functions have been set out for the office, how the post will relate to the existing local authorities or what consequential changes will be made in the local government system in Dublin. Two problems arise in this regard. First, the matter has not been clarified and, second, if there is to be an election next summer, an issue of electoral fairness arises. The longer the legislation to provide for a Dublin mayor is delayed, the greater the problem of electoral fairness that will emerge.

Has the Government agreed heads of the Bill to provide for a Dublin mayor? I heard the Taoiseach state, in response to a question from Deputy Hogan last week, that the Bill would be presented some time in the new year. I ask that a mechanism be provided whereby the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government can inform the House or its relevant committee as to what exactly is intended for the office in question - what type of office it will be, what functions it will have and how it will relate to existing local authorities - in order that we have some knowledge about what is planned. Is it even intended to proceed with the proposed election next summer?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The information I provided to the House last week is the up to date position, that is, the Bill is due to be brought forward early next year. While there is a deliberative process taking place, Members have available to them various other means, including Question Time and the committee system to which Deputy Gilmore referred, by which information and updates can be provided as to the stage of progress that has been reached. The detailed questions the Deputy is asking are best put to the line Minister concerned.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It was put to the Taoiseach that he should not proceed with the decisions in the budget measures in April regarding the Christmas payment to social welfare recipients and pensioners. I reiterate that proposal. Following on that, is it intended to have a social welfare Bill following the budget? If so, is the Bill likely to be presented before the Christmas recess? Is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate whether there will be one or more social welfare Bills and, if so, whether he intends to have them passed before the Christmas recess?

I note from the revised programme for Government that it promises to reform residency rules to ensure that those who benefit from living in Ireland are subject to taxation in Ireland. This commitment is clearly aimed at the very well-off, the super rich who make little or no contribution to taxation in this State. Is the relevant legislation under preparation? How soon is it expected to come before the Houses of the Oireachtas? Will the measures form part of the finance Bill which will follow the budget? I ask the Taoiseach to give the House a sense of how he intends to introduce the measures indicated in the revised programme for Government.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Taxation matters are an issue for the Minister for Finance and I do not wish to go into detail on them for the purposes of the Order of Business. In regard to the social welfare Bill, Deputy Ó Snodaigh yesterday raised the issue of whether it would be an omnibus Bill or a series of Bills. The social welfare Bill to which we refer in the context of the budget arises from necessary legislative changes which have to take place as a result of decisions made at budget time. The point I made yesterday was that enactments have to be made before such changes come into effect.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Once again I have to appeal to the Ceann Comhairle for assistance and advice. I am sure everybody in the House has had a similar experience to mine. In the past few days I have received responses to some ten questions from the Office of the Ceann Comhairle - it is not his fault - which state the Minister has no responsibility to the House. I have complained about this issue and only one person can deal with it. My question concerns the order or disorder of our business in this House. It has to stop. We have had a lot of talk about Dáil reform but we do not talk about the erosion of the rights of Members of this House to get answers to questions which are pertinent and which were answered previously by Ministers' predecessors.

For example, in response to questions in respect of Transport 21, last week I received a letter from the Ceann Comhairle-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I advise the Deputy that the Dáil reform committee is meeting today and ask him to arrange that his party's representative raise this matter there.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This does not relate to Dáil reform. It relates to the erosion of------

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does. We are talking about parliamentary questions.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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-----the existing rights of Members of the House to get an answer to a question------

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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-----which was answered five years ago. This Minister's predecessor-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The brief-----

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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------answered the question in regard to Transport 21.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The issue the Deputy is raising is directly relevant to the deliberations of the sub-committee on Dáil reform.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No it is not. That is a different issue altogether. My question concerns the rights Members had; it has nothing to do with Dáil reform. The suggestion is that we have Dáil reform in order to give back the rights we had five years ago, namely, the right to get an answer to a parliamentary question. The Ceann Comhairle can ask any Member of these benches if I am telling a lie. I can assure him there is more to come. This is a serious issue. We have seen a gradual erosion of rights. The only person who can deal with this issue is the Taoiseach.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy wishes to pursue this issue there are alternative ways of dealing with it in the House.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle to tell me what the alternative ways are.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is a long time Member of this House. He knows what the procedures are.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is why I am asking the question.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can avail of Private Members' time, parliamentary questions or the Adjournment.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle is saying he can do nothing about it. The Taoiseach is sitting there, looking glumly across. All he has to do is give one scowl to his colleagues on the Front Bench and he can convince them to answer parliamentary questions, because every day that passes the rights of Members of this House are being trampled upon.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle where else I can go to get an answer to my question.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to raise this matter with the sub-committee on Dáil reform.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is nothing to do with the sub-committee on Dáil reform.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot allow disorder to take hold in the House.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is not disorder. What we are doing and have experienced here is disorder because of the disorder of our business.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask his party representative to raise this issue at the meeting today.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am asking the Ceann Comhairle why, if I could I get an answer to a question five years ago, I cannot get one now.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will resume my seat. The Ceann Comhairle is not standing up for the rights of the Members of this House when he refuses to force the Taoiseach to answer that question.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a terrible allegation to make.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is not a terrible allegation. It is the truth and the Taoiseach knows that.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to raise the matter at the meeting today.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On the same issue, the matter is before the Dáil reform committee but there is no sign of the Government making any move on it.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not have any control over the operation of the committee.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is the problem. The Ceann Comhairle has control over nothing anymore.

Photo of Lucinda CreightonLucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Taoiseach to advise the House of his intentions as to when he will introduce the criminal justice (legal aid) Bill and what he envisages it will contain. There are serious problems with the legal aid system as it currently exists. It is costing the State a fortune. Nobody challenges legal aid applications in court. There is no incentive for the defence or the prosecution to do so and generally judges just accept the word of the defence. There is no scrutiny of how legal aid is awarded or whether it is awarded at all. The 1962 Act sets out no criteria for eligibilty for legal aid. I am interested to hear the Taoiseach's views on how he proposes to deal with this issue. Repeat offenders are receiving legal aid on eight, nine or ten occasions. People are being investigated by the Criminal Assets Bureau but are still in receipt of legal aid. There is absolutely no effort made by the Government to address the issue. It is something which is exercising the public and which is morally wrong. I would like to hear how or when the Taoiseach intends to address the issue.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand legislation is due next year. The Deputy raises issues which need to be addressed in the context of that Bill.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the context of legislation on and the regulation of banking, the scheme which was announced by the Irish Banking Federation yesterday is welcome but limited and I share the sentiments the Taoiseach expressed. However, the scheme needs to be put on a statutory footing. Does the Taoiseach propose to do that? There are many lenders who are not covered by the scheme, which is voluntary, such as most of the sub-prime firms which are those who are currently taking hundreds of people to court. They are not waiting until after the NAMA Bill is passed, rather they are doing it now and are charging people vast penalties and legal fees in the way they are approaching repossessions. Every Deputy in this House knows that.

We also have different money firms which are registered as financial institutions, some of which are effectively moneylenders. They are leaning on people for repayment by making constant phone calls, which is effectively harassment, and we have no regulation-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy referring to promised legislation?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Yes. We have no regulation at all of those kinds of debt collection methods. The Taoiseach will remember a notorious criminal was running a debt collection service in the Carlow area last summer-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find an alternative way of getting answers to these questions. She could go down the parliamentary question road.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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A whole series of different laws are proposed in regard to financial regulation, including the new legislation governing the reunification of the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator, as well as the NAMA Bill which will come back before the Dáil tomorrow. Is it possible to simply put an amendment in the Bill------

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The ideal time to raise this matter will be when the Bill comes before the House tomorrow.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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------to put the scheme on a statutory footing? It would give some protection to people who are being pursued in a savage and in many cases illegal way for debt repayments.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On customers of sub-prime companies, we have asked the authorities to seek to extend the arrangements to those people as well. I do not believe they should be exempt from a code of conduct in this regard and I understand that is what is intended. I explained that the code of conduct arises out of legislation on the Financial Regulator and IFSRA. The whole purpose of codes of conduct, based on that statutory code, is to provide the means to deal with situations quickly, whereas in respect of statutory provisions one has to introduce primary legislation all the time. As this situation evolves we need to respond flexibly and as humanely as possible to people who find themselves in genuine difficulty. If other people are simply absolving themselves of their responsibilities or are not engaging at all-----

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There are relatively few.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There may be relatively few but we have to make that distinction, in fairness to those who are making the effort.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There are moneylenders who are really putting the squeeze on people.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I hold no brief for such people. I am making the point that, as I understand it, it is being sought that the code of conduct be extended to everybody in this area. It is important that people are treated with the same degree of respect and dignity no matter who they are dealing with and that is something which the Financial Regulator has a responsibility to achieve and is seeking to achieve.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to inquire about two pieces of legislation. As the House is aware, 900 people die from bowel cancer every year in this country and with a screening programme we could save 324 lives per annum. In order to do this we need a unique patient identifier to collate and collect information in order to put proper screening in place. This can be started with a very generous contribution from the Irish Cancer Society of €1 million and I hope the Minister will begin the process and allow for it in her budget this year. We need the health information Bill to be published to allow us to do this and I wonder when this legislation will come before the House.

The other piece of legislation promised by the Minister for Health and Children relates to the Competition Authority. In this country the Minister has refused to negotiate or engage with any of the representative bodies of either dentists, pharmacists, doctors and even Equity Ireland. There was an undertaking given earlier last year that this would be addressed, as the problem does not persist around Europe. Countries such as the UK, the Netherlands, France and Germany do not have this problem in dealing with the professions that we seem to have under competition law from Europe. When will those two pieces of legislation come forward?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Both pieces of legislation are due next year. It will probably be the middle of next year.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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In light of the imprisonment earlier this year of a former lobbyist for corrupt practices relating to the planning process in this city-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy talking about promised legislation?

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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-----and in regard to the bribing of public representatives and officials, I asked the Taoiseach yesterday about a commitment in the previous programme for Government to regulate the lobbying industry. The current programme for Government, agreed two and a half years later because nothing had happened in the meantime, has a renewed commitment to the regulation of lobbying.

The Taoiseach suggested that I await the reply of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the matter I put down on the Adjournment. I got that last night but I am none the wiser. The reply states: "The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is considering these issues on behalf of the Government, in line with the commitment in the renewed programme for Government."

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way of raising this issue.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It continues: "He intends that his Department will constructively explore options with representatives of the lobbying industry to make progress with the most appropriate approach to the introduction of a register."

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That sounds like a firm promise.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is not exactly a commitment to legislation so I ask the Taoiseach when we will get the legislation to regulate the lobbying industry, which has already been promised twice in the previous and current programme for Government?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy was informed as late as last night that the approach to be taken is that we will sit down with people engaged in this area.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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There was no mention of legislation last night.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot add to last night's discussion.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is the problem.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a problem, it is a fact.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is a problem.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Are people who got a reply last night coming in today to ask what is the story?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There was no reply last night.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is not accurate. My question relates to legislation. The reply I got did not refer to legislation at all.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will move to Deputy Ciarán Lynch. The Deputy will have to find an alternative way of raising this.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is no alternative.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am entitled to ask the Taoiseach about promised legislation.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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This has been promised twice and we still have not got it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Let me answer the Deputy.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am waiting to hear the reply.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The answer is as the Deputy received it last night. Consideration will be given as soon as there are further discussions with the people in that industry in order to come up with a practical legislative response that makes sense and meets the objectives of the operation.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Will that be expected under the programme for Government?

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Under the Order of Business last Thursday morning I raised the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act, with specific reference to section 132. I would not expect the Tánaiste to have minute information and detail available to her for every matter pertaining to the Order of Business but it was indicated that a response would be given as to when section 132 would commence. It deals with upward-only rent reviews.

I received correspondence from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform which states:

A commencement order has been made specifically for 1 December 2009 as the date when all sections of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 other than section 132 shall come into operation. A separate commencement order will now be necessary for section 132.

The next line is what I would like the Taoiseach to pay particular attention to because it is like something from "Yes, Prime Minister" and I am still trying to figure out what the official is saying to me. The letter continues:

The timing of that order is still being considered within the Department but the fact that section 132 has not been included in the general order does not imply that any decision has been taken in relation to the non-compliance of that section.

The question I have this morning-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Lynch has established a routine of coming in and quoting from letters and it is not permitted.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It pertains to what Deputy Durkan said this morning.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy indicated that he has received a reply from the Minister.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I have not got a reply. That is the point.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy tying the reply to promised legislation?

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The promise was that the Act would commence on 1 December. Will the Taoiseach indicate if section 132 will be commenced? The reply I received is like something from the script of "Yes, Prime Minister" where a Minister is so brave as to stay away from the issue.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has posed the question.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Will the section be commenced and if so, when will it be commenced? Is there an indication in the response I received this morning that section 132 will be kicked to touch?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That information is probably not available at this time.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is a straight question.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach may be prepared to answer it.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach wants to answer it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill has been passed and a commencement order in respect of all sections except section 132 will proceed on 1 December. Consideration must now be given on when to deal with the rest of the Bill, section 132, by a separate commencement order. The Deputies should be aware that to ask when a commencement order to a Bill that has already been passed will be made is a matter for the Department. There are phones available and other ways to get in touch with the Departments but Deputies are not satisfied with the replies. A question can be tabled to the Minister.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is e-mail as well.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This is a House of Parliament.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are iPods.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is asking me about a commencement order.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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With respect, I have tabled parliamentary questions about this. I have communicated what has happened and none of these actions has been properly met.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Lynch has his information. I call Deputy Thomas P. Broughan.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I appeal to the Ceann Comhairle. I have used very avenue. I know the answer I will receive; it will be like the reply I received this morning, which is like something from "Yes, Prime Minister".

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has his reply. I ask Deputy Lynch to resume his seat. We are holding up the Order of Business.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We can phone in the Order of Business in future.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I want to ask the Taoiseach a brief question but I first warmly support the issue raised by Deputy Durkan, the lack of accountability of Ministers to the House.

Photo of Olivia MitchellOlivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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On behalf of the Department of Transport, the Ceann Comhairle turned down ten questions last Thursday from the Labour Party and I would like to look at that closely without going to sub-committees or sub-committees of sub-committees.

With regard to the rural transport network, has a decision been taken on small-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy talking about promised legislation?

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We have had some discussion this morning about funding for next year. The Taoiseach knows about the brilliant service-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not talking about promised legislation.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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-----in his own constituency.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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These matters should be dealt with by way of parliamentary question, the Adjournment or some other way.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I tried to do that. For 2010, will the 40 or so small companies which provide a rural transport service be safe?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I advise Deputy Broughan to put the matter down on the Adjournment or in a parliamentary question.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I have done that. Will the Taoiseach enlighten us on the matter and give those companies guidance?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a matter for legislation. We cannot get into precise details and expect people to have answers in the Chamber. That is impossible.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is a big issue and the Taoiseach knows the matter very well.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should put down a parliamentary question to the relevant Minister and get an answer that way.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach will answer.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He has the answer.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are moving on to statements on the European Council.