Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 74: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of recorded cases of so-called tiger robberies, in which staff or relatives of staff of financial institutions were taken hostage to date in 2009; the amount of money taken in such robberies; the discussions he has had with the financial institutions about these robberies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40405/09]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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In the nature of democratic politics we disagree on many issues in this House. However, I believe we are at one in condemning what have come to be known as tiger kidnappings and in offering our full sympathy to the victims of such heinous crimes.

I am advised by the Garda authorities that five tiger kidnappings have taken place to date this year. While it is a matter of public record that these included the robbery of a very substantial amount of money from the Bank of Ireland at College Green, I am advised by the Garda Commissioner that for operational reasons it is the policy not to disclose the sums involved in these incidents.

The Deputy will be aware that detailed and comprehensive protocols and response procedures have been agreed between the Garda Síochána and the financial institutions to deal with situations where members of staff or their families are taken hostage in order to facilitate robberies of such institutions. The Garda Síochána does not, for obvious security reasons, publicly disclose information relating to protocols and procedures. Regular meetings are held between the Garda Síochána and representatives of the financial institutions to discuss issues relating to their security arrangements, including the issue of tiger kidnappings.

The Deputy will be aware that the Garda Commissioner and I jointly met with the chief executives of various financial institutions last week to discuss this issue and to outline our concerns in this regard. I do not doubt the commitment of the banks to the well-being of their staff or their desire to help foil these crimes. However, it is crucial that the protocols are followed, and both the Garda Commissioner and I emphasised this to the banks at our meeting. Following that meeting, a number of further measures and policy decisions which I cannot disclose publicly at this time are being taken, including the limiting of access to cash. I will also be meeting representatives of the credit unions and the Irish Banking Federation.

I do not for a moment underestimate the pressure to which the victims of tiger kidnappings are subjected. Following my meeting last week with the heads of the major banks, I will meet later this week with representatives of employees of financial institutions to hear their views and discuss what more can be done to ensure their safety. I assure the House and the employees of financial institutions that the Garda Síochána's absolute priority when faced with an incident of this kind is to ensure that no harm comes to the victims. However, as I stated in the House last week, it is in the interest of everyone, and the staff of financial institutions in particular, that the protocols are observed. These are in place first and foremost to protect employees. It is important to recognise that we will only stop tiger kidnapping attempts by rendering them unsuccessful and thereby protecting innocent employees from being caught in them in the future.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is correct in assuming that every Member of this House agrees these are appalling crimes and that our sympathy is with the victims and their families. However, is he not concerned that so-called tiger kidnappings are on the increase and is it not reasonable to presume that the very large sums of money garnered in some of these incidents are used for the financing of more serious crime, such as drugs trafficking and firearms purchases?

Each time a tiger kidnapping takes place, the Minister issues strong warnings to the financial institutions and those who are responsible but little else seems to be done between one incident and the next. Too frequently, we have seen similar incidents occur shortly after the lessons were supposed to have been learned. Is he satisfied from his discussions with the senior executives of the financial institutions that they are taking the matter as seriously as they should in the interests of their staff and combatting crime? The man and woman on the street have reservations about whether the fine words are being translated into action.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with Deputy Rabbitte that the Government is very concerned about what has happened in recent times. There were nine events in 2006, although not all were successful, four in 2007 and 2008, respectively, and five in 2009 to date. These events cause major trauma to the victims and their families and, often, to bank employees even where they were not directly involved.

One of the developments from last week's meeting is that local gardaí will regularly visit financial institutions' premises to liaise with staff. Our discussions focused on the concern that individuals continue to have access to large amounts of money and ensuring that people are not put under duress. It is my experience of dealing with this matter over the past 18 months that anywhere the protocols have been complied with they have been successful from a law enforcement point of view. Given that they now appear to be targeting families as well as individual bank officials, there is grave concern that, God forbid, someone will be injured in any subsequent incident. I want to widen the discussions to listen to the views of the Irish Bank Officials Association on what more can be done.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Let me give the Minister the example of the €7.6 million taken in a recent robbery of this type in a Dublin bank. How did an employee, admittedly one operating under duress, have such easy access to retrieve the amount of money handed over? The robbery was followed by press statements or behind the scenes briefings by the Garda that a great deal of the money was recovered. I understand only a limited amount was recovered. While it is all very well for the Minister to state that protocols are not being complied with in some cases, is he satisfied that the content of the protocols is adequate to meet this modern day scourge?

I concur with the Minister that the safety of bank officials and their families must come first. Since he failed to comment on my earlier remark, I repeat that the only reasonable conclusion one can draw is that these robberies are carried out for the purpose of funding and financing more serious crime and the trafficking of drugs into this jurisdiction.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy. The Government and all Deputies are concerned about the safety of ordinary individuals and civilians caught up in these robberies. That is our number one priority and in case anyone in the banking fraternity believes otherwise, the safety of individuals is also the absolute priority of the Garda in these types of incidents. The secondary concern is to prevent such crimes from taking place in the first instance and, where they do take place, to apprehend the criminals involved. The priority of ensuring the safety of individuals is the reason early warning is crucial. Successful operations were mounted in cases where early warning was given.

I concur with the Deputy that large amounts of money are getting into criminals' hands and feeding into their continuing crime, whether drugs, illegal firearms or another activity. This is another worry for the Government and the reason, as I stated publicly, we must redouble our efforts in this area, particularly with regard to the way in which banks go about their business. While I do not wish to comment on individual cases because people are before the courts, there is concern that large amounts of money are accessible to perhaps one or two individuals in banking institutions.

I note that one commentator referred today to my statement that, for whatever reason, more cash per head of population circulates in this State than elsewhere. In mainland Europe, many countries have limited cash available and transactions are carried out using plastic. The issue, about which I have had discussions with my Government colleagues, must be addressed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Was today's commentary fair?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Nothing written by the individual in question is fair or balanced, particularly if it relates to the Fianna Fáil Party.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I found the article insightful.