Dáil debates
Thursday, 5 November 2009
Other Questions
Departmental Expenditure.
9:00 am
Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Transport the potential and planned spending cuts across his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39601/09]
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Question 12: To ask the Minister for Transport his views on the proposals regarding the transport sector by the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39544/09]
P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Question 16: To ask the Minister for Transport his views on the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes' recommendations in relation to transport; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39678/09]
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 12 and 16 together.
The report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes recommended full year savings of €127 million in my Department's current expenditure provision. The proposed expenditure reductions included a saving of €2.9 million on administrative expenditure, pay and non-pay; a reduction of €36.2 million on roads and road related expenditure, including €20 million on road maintenance; and a saving of €68 million on public transport expenditure, including €55 million from operational efficiencies among the CIE companies. The balance of €20 million was accounted for by savings in aviation and cross-programme expenditure. The report also included recommendations on additional revenue raising measures such as asset disposal and road pricing, and proposed some organisational restructuring such as the merger of agencies and functions.
As part of the preparations for the budget, my Department submitted a list of possible savings options to the Department of Finance in early September which took account of the recommendations in the report. That submission also included a preliminary evaluation of the non-revenue reduction recommendations in the report. The Government is considering all the recommendations in the special group's report and decisions will be made by it in the context of the budget for 2010 and later years. To assist with the task, the Government has referred the report to the Oireachtas Committee on Finance and the Public Service for its views prior to the budget. These processes are ongoing and it would therefore be inappropriate for me to comment in advance of the deliberations being finalised.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has proved himself a very weak performer at Cabinet level to allow such a drastic cut in funding for the roads programme. The planned cut will have a devastating effect on the condition of the country's roads. A cut of €36.2 million in funding for county roads is deplorable. Does the Minister realise the serious effect this will have on the quality of our roads? There is also a serious problem with poor signposting on roads, particularly on the recently constructed motorways. It is a major cause of concern to the travelling public.
I also wish to raise the Dublin-Sligo rail line. There is a serious health and safety issue at Edgeworthstown on Sunday evenings because the train travelling from Sligo to Dublin is overcrowded at that junction. This is a threat to the health and safety of the young people travelling back to college at weekends.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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In addition, the continuation of the motorway from Mullingar to Rooskey is not getting the priority it deserves from the Government, despite the promises made in the last general election campaign. Furthermore, the main north-south artery through the midlands, the N55, was described in a recent report as the road to hell. It is one of the worst roads in the country.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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What are the Minister's plans to upgrade this artery through the midlands?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is a separate question, Deputy.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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This would pull much of the traffic from the congested east coast of the country.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That merits a separate question, Deputy.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I also have a question about motor insurance. Has the Minister consulted the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment about the huge increase of 15% in the cost of motor insurance due to the poor condition of our roads?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is well beyond the scope of the question. I call the Minister.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is obvious Deputy Bannon did not listen to my initial reply. I was asked specifically about the recommendations and I outlined the nature sof those recommendations. I concluded by stating that discussions were taking place, that the matter had been referred to the committee and that it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any specific savings that might happen in advance of the deliberations being finalised. The recommendations contained in the McCarthy report will be decided upon by the Government and not individual Ministers. The latter will make their own recommendations, but the Government will make decisions in respect of the overall position.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has so many reports he could use them to paper the walls of this House twice over.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Bannon should allow somebody else to speak.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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In the two most recent budgets, particularly the one introduced in April, the allocation in respect of transport was severely cut. There was a major cutback in the provision of public transport and some 300 buses were removed from the road. I was recently lectured by both Deputy Ciarán Cuffe and the Minister in respect of the Dublin city bus gate. However, both of them voted for a reduction of 300 buses in the fleets of Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. The Road Safety Authority's budget was slashed by €2.8 million and the allocation relating to park-and-ride facilities was largely removed. In addition, there was a series of cutbacks in respect of important transport developments. I agree with Deputy Bannon with regard to the roads budget.
Is it not a terrible prospect that the Department, which has a relatively small budget when compared to some of its bigger counterparts, is facing into some severe cutbacks that will impact very negatively on public transport? The old Fine Gael mantra regarding subsidisation and rolling it up for three or four years in the context of the PSO for public transport was repeated earlier today. Dublin Bus has one of the lowest public subsidies of any major urban bus company in Europe. In addition, Bus Éireann is paid a derisory subsidy of 12%. Its counterpart in Belgium receives a subsidy of 78%.
I am tired of hearing the same old ráiméis. I am also tired of people making vindictive and vicious attacks on the public sector and public transport. Senator Ross - who will never be a Deputy - has a vicious and vindictive attitude towards the public sector and public transport.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Senator would beat the Deputy any day of the week.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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In light of his track record as he perceives it, is the Minister prepared to inform the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance that if they do not retain key elements of the public transport and road safety budgets, he will resign? Will he take a strong line, indicate that he will not tolerate cuts and insist that the transport be protected?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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This is typical of what we are obliged to deal with.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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By the way, I thought the Minister was off to Europe.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is continually castigated by the Opposition for not taking the necessary actions to restore the economy. For the past five to ten years we have been criticised in respect of all the money we spent, etc. It is being stated now that the circumstances in which we currently find ourselves reflect the way that money was spent.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Government wasted that money.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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That is despite the fact that the Opposition called on us to spend even more money.
No area of Government expenditure will escape cuts or will not have changes made to it. The Department of Transport will be no more exempt than any other Department. In the context of what Deputy Broughan said, I will try to ensure that the commitment contained in the renewed programme for Government in respect of public transport will be adhered to. I agree with him that we have quite an amount of catching up to do.
I do not, however, agree with everything the Deputy says. He wanted me to pay for 300 new buses at a time when it was clear that they were not needed and when those already on the roads were not being used efficiently.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is not what the Deloitte report says.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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That is what Deloitte-----
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister is misleading the House.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure Deputy Broughan does not mean to say that because it is not in order for him to do so.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister is misleading the House.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should allow me to answer the question.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister should be allowed to proceed.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Deloitte report states that Bus Éireann is an efficient company. It is ridiculous.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy was seeking 300 buses for Dublin Bus.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I was seeking them for both companies.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Deputy was seeking them for Dublin Bus. The Deloitte report shows that we can increase the efficiencies in Dublin Bus. The company has accepted that and has put in place the necessary changes. Deloitte focused on one particular bus corridor and indicated that it would be possible for Dublin Bus to save €3 million in a year in respect of it. Thanks to the changes that were made, the agreement reached with the workers and the work done by management, it appears that at least €2 million will be saved in respect of that corridor. I want to see similar initiatives across the public transport service. I am as committed to that service as the Deputy. However, I want it to be efficient, effective and capable of delivering for the public.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The subsidy for Dublin Bus increased from €18.9 million in 2000 to €82.9 million in 2008.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It was 29% of total revenue.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should allow me to conclude. Is it not a fact that subsidy increased from €18.9 million in 2000 to €82.9 million in 2008? The number of buses on the road remained more or less the same during that period, but over 200,000 houses were built in the greater Dublin area. The bus network was not adequate to meet the needs of the increasing population. It is absolutely imperative that the network should be expanded and that routes should be open to competition. We want to see more buses, more people on them and cheaper fares. We do not care what colour buses are painted as long as they are provided.
The Dublin Port tunnel, which cost almost €600 million, is the largest single item of infrastructure built since the foundation of the State. When the tunnel was completed, much of the basic equipment in it, namely, the Scada safety system and the heating and ventilation system, were not fit for purpose. Is it not the case that if an accident had occurred during the first two years in which the tunnel was in operation, the first four minutes of the warning period could have been lost? The point I am making is that the money was not spent because the Minister did not have oversight of it.
There is universal agreement that whatever happens in respect of the transport budget, the rural transport initiative should remain in place. I accept that savings must be made and practical approaches taken. However, public transport is available in our cities and it should continue to be available in rural areas.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is possible to quote statistics in support of any argument. I do not believe the Deputy is being fair in that regard. Deputy Broughan has a point in respect of this matter. I do not know the exact figure but the number of buses did increase somewhat during the period to which Deputy O'Dowd refers and the age of the bus fleet improved considerably. As a result, we now have the youngest bus fleet in Europe. Deputy O'Dowd is correct that the network remained largely the same. That was one of the failings of the system. However, the level of service of the network increased substantially. From 2000 up to 2006 or 2007, the number of passengers also increased to a substantial degree. There has been a decrease during the past couple of years.
The money was invested well at the time but I agree with the Deputy that the major failure was that the network did not change.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Services did not change to meet the demands. We must rectify that failure and provide services in places where people work and live.