Dáil debates

Wednesday, 7 October 2009

11:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 12, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Convention on the European Forest Institute; and No. 21, National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009 - Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 12 and 13 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 66, motion re FÁS.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are no proposals to be put to the House today.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Gilmore said this morning that as far as he was aware there was no precedent for the replacement of the Ceann Comhairle during the course of a Dáil session. If I recall correctly, in July 1980 the late Ceann Comhairle Joseph Brennan died in office while the Dáil was in recess, and the then Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, decided to appoint a member of his Cabinet, Pádraig Faulkner, as the Ceann Comhairle. The person occupying this seat at the time, Garret FitzGerald, objected to the fact that the Taoiseach had not consulted with him, although he did not object to Mr. Faulkner's appointment. The Labour Party did not object either. In fact, I think he was elected unanimously.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That was before our time.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is what longevity gives one. I say this just for the information of the House.

Has the Taoiseach informed the Parliament of the Czech Republic that Ireland has approved the Lisbon treaty in a referendum? The intention is not to put pressure on the Czech Republic but to remind it that the Lisbon treaty cannot be fully signed off until it and Poland have finalised the issue.

I also ask the Taoiseach for further clarification of his remarks to Deputy Gilmore this morning. If other parties or Members of the House consider certain persons to be suitable for nomination by the Government to the post of European Commissioner, what is the process for bringing this to the Taoiseach's attention? Is this done verbally or by written affirmation? There are a number of people I could recommend who would guarantee this country a senior portfolio. As the Taoiseach knows, there are 27 commissionerships to give out and they cannot all be responsible for finance or other important areas. While they act in the European interest, it is important for Irish people to know there is someone out there who understands the nature of the work to be done.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I did not inform any parliament of the outcome of the referendum, which is well known in all these countries. It was well known even before the official announcement was made that the people of Ireland had approved the treaty. Tomorrow the formal procedure will be carried out without debate and the instrument of ratification will be forwarded in due course to Rome, where the relevant papers are held. I intend to do this before the European Council meets in the next few weeks so we can confirm we have met all requirements. Other countries are carrying out their own internal ratification procedures and it is not for me to remind people of that, since this country has had its own ratification procedure over a prolonged period. It is a matter for the Presidency and the Commission to deal with those issues in the normal way in terms of expediting the matter and bringing clarity to the process for appointing a Commission. Institutional certainty is also required as part of the preparations for the transition to a new Commission in the aftermath of the ratification of the treaty by all 27 member states.

I made the point yesterday that the appointment of a high representative, who will now become a member of the Commission under the new treaty arrangements, is another consideration for the President of the Commission, Mr. Barroso, before finalising his arrangements for the composition of the Commission. Under the Treaty of Lisbon this is a matter for designation by the European Council. That matter will also have to be addressed in that forum before we finalise the Commission procedures.

On how the Deputy can contact me, he can do so by whatever means he feels competent to use.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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How would I get through to the Taoiseach?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's door is always open.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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By walkie-talkie.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach would not listen to us on other issues.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy can reach me by phone, my number is in the book.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will ensure I am available if the Deputy is looking for me.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach have an answering machine?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On the issue of the Commissioner, does the Taoiseach believe the composition of the Commission will be decided at the October Council? If so, there is obviously a particular pace of events in regard to the appointment of a Commissioner.

Photo of Seán PowerSeán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It would appear Deputy Gilmore wants Mr. McCreevy to stay for another while.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He has done enough damage. Give him a rest.

Photo of Paul GogartyPaul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Appoint Deputy Emmet Stagg.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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For some weeks I have asked the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste for the date of the budget. I cannot recall there ever being such level of secrecy surrounding the date of a budget. The closest I got to receiving an answer was yesterday when the Taoiseach stated the budget would be announced in December. Perhaps the Taoiseach will be a little more precise than saying it will be announced in December.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be announced before or after Christmas?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Has the Government decided on a date for the budget and, if so, what is the date?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government will make a formal decision on the date at its meeting tomorrow on the budget strategy in general. We will announce the date next week. I have a view of on what date it will be announced but I cannot reveal that to the Deputy until a formal Cabinet decision has been made.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be before or after Christmas?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will be before Christmas.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That narrows it down.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is another matter I have clarified for the Deputy.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If I can find a date on which the Deputy is unlikely to be around I will probably pick that one.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I will take that as a compliment.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. All of my comments to the Deputy are always complimentary.

On the issue of the Commissioner, President Barroso will not proceed with the composition of the Commission until the High Representative has been appointed. He made that point to me when I spoke to him last Saturday in the aftermath of the result on the Lisbon treaty referendum.

I make the point also that many incumbent Commissioners are being appointed for a second term. To date some 11 or 12 Governments have indicated their current Commissioners will be their nominees for this term. Whether they will remain in existing positions, President Barroso cannot determine. He has informed me that no decision has been taken on the composition of the Commission nor can it be until the High Representative's name is available to him.

On whether the decision will be made in October, the European Council will not make its decision in respect of the High Representative until late October and as such the matter of the composition of the Commission will be dealt with beyond that.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I had expected that the Order of Business would be read into the record and that when there were no proposals to put to the House we would have proceeded, whereupon I was going to raise a point of order. While I do not have the same facilitation as other party Leaders in the Opposition vis-a-vis Leaders' Questions I, too, wished to refer to the fact that Sinn Féin has tabled a motion on the Order Paper which has not made its way to the scheduling of business for today. That motion relates to the position of the Ceann Comhairle.

It is our intention that our motion will stand. While I accept that I have no way of pressing to have this motion taken in the House - I spoke about this matter to the Chief Whip last evening - it was our wish that this matter be dealt with today. We are not happy with the deferment of the Ceann Comhairle's resignation. It should take effect as of today, which is the appropriate time in this regard. The Ceann Comhairle would subsequently have had ample opportunity to address outstanding issues in the tidying up of his affairs in that office. It is not appropriate that this matter is being allowed to continue on for another week. That is our position.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy will be aware that it is the Taoiseach's prerogative to order the affairs of the day.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not find this edifying. On the basis of the Ceann Comhairle having made his decision it was reasonable he be given space and time to prepare a statement for the House as he was not afforded the opportunity to do so at a proposed meeting of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission today. The Ceann Comhairle must also be given time to make arrangements in regard to office personnel and so on. This would be regarded by most people in this House as a fair indication of what should happen given this issue only arose yesterday evening. There are some who cannot step back from dancing on a grave but I am not one of them.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It has not arisen out of anything very edifying in the first place.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It has nothing to do with the problems that arose over the weekend.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach will have read in the newspapers today that from a leaked report we discover that our Financial Regulator is 23% more expensive than equivalent regulators elsewhere, it carries out fewer inspections and enforcement, that the role of senior managers is unclear and that the taxpayer is taking a bigger share of the cost of running this office than are the financial institutions. Against that background, I would like to know when the legislation on the Financial Regulator will be published and when a new Financial Regulator will be appointed. We are limping along with a system with no clear leadership and no reform.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A question on the relevant legislation is in order.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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This is not a satisfactory way to confront what is a core issue of confidence in Ireland's ability to manage a key sector.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach on legislation.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has been concentrating on bringing forward the National Assets Management Agency Bill, which is detailed legislation. He has also indicated the reforms he proposes to bring forward on the regulatory side. The Deputy, more than most, will be aware of the workload involved in that regard. The legislation is being proceeded with as a matter of priority and will come to the House as soon as it is ready.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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When will a new regulator be appointed? That matter can be dealt with.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That question is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That matter is also being proceeded with.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Not with any great speed.

Photo of Lucinda CreightonLucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise with the Taoiseach my concerns in regard to the Labour Services (Amendment) Bill 2009 which was published yesterday. Perhaps the Taoiseach will say when that legislation is expected to come before the House and why it does not contain any screening procedures for board appointees. This is a major opportunity for the Government to introduce transparency and accountability to the appointments procedure-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach, on when the Bill will come before the House.

Photo of Lucinda CreightonLucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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-----as set out in Fine Gael's Private Members' Bill two weeks ago. The Bill as drafted eliminates all representation by the social partners which essentially means that the board of FÁS will be a conglomerate of political appointees, which is very disappointing.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach, on when the Bill will be introduced in the House.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With the agreement of the Whips, the legislation can be taken in the House next week.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad the Minister for Education and Science is in the House as he may be able to assist the Taoiseach on the following matter. There are only three education Bills included in the Programme for Government. I spoke to several students from the Dublin Institute of Technology who protested outside the House about the disgraceful situation in their college. The Bill in question might address their health and safety concerns and the fact that there are no lecturers, desks or white boards-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy must specify the relevant legislation.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is legislation which deals with external quality assurance review of the universities. This would be appropriate given the closure of laboratories which are required for science courses.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach on the universities Bill.

12:00 pm

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The relevant legislation is the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill 1999. Will the Taoiseach fast track this legislation to address the problems at the Dublin Institute of Technology in particular which does not - based on what I heard today - have quality assurance?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is due next year.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We passed legislation in June that empowers the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make regulations to reform the existing expenses regime for Members of the Houses. In a matter of secondary legislation, the Minister now has before him from the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission proposals for a new regime of expenses for Members that is capped and vouched. When will the Minister introduce the secondary legislation to bring this into force? It has been before him since June while the controversy about expenses for Members rages on. It is waiting for implementation by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, not by the commission, even if the Green Party thinks the commission is at fault. Green Party Deputies do not seem to know what is happening.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It has also been suggested that the Minister was acting as a block to reform. In fact, he has stated there is a need for further consideration of the proposed composite allowance scheme before it is introduced in any regulation because he wants to ensure that we address the question of verification.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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A road traffic Bill to introduce mandatory drug testing at the scene of accidents was promised by the Minister two years ago. When will that legislation be published?

In view of the loss of almost 700 jobs in Aer Lingus, will the Financial Appropriations Bill include a provision to withdraw the travel tax that has had a significant adverse effect on the volume of transport through our airports?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Questions on the content of legislation are not in order.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The road traffic Bill will be published shortly. The management proposals announced by Aer Lingus will now be the subject to a six week consultation period with staff representatives and unions. This is not a result of the imposition of a particular tax but because of the general aviation situation. The viability of the company is an important objective for all and we hope for a positive outcome.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Does the Government propose, in the context of the very difficult budget that will be introduced in December, to publish information about the Estimates so the Opposition will have a sense of the Government's proposals on expenditure? An official of the Central Bank felt free yesterday to recommend savage cuts. The Opposition must have some information about the approach the Government is taking.

When the Dáil reassembled for the NAMA debate, the Minister for Finance published proposals on the roll-over and indefinite extension of the bank guarantee in five year periods. There has been no opportunity to debate that because the proposals were published after second Stage of the National Assets Management Agency Bill commenced. Will the Government provide time to specifically debate the extension of the guarantee, including the possible extension for tier two dated subordinated debt?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The subject will be encompassed in the Second Stage debate on the National Assets Management Agency Bill.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That Bill is before the House and it is open to any Deputy to raise issues. On Committee Stage, further opportunity will be provided for that to happen.

Budgetary strategy is being discussed by Cabinet. When decisions are taken as to how we intend to proceed, we will inform the House.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Are there instruments in the National Assets Management Agency Bill to deal with agricultural credit?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy knows that is out of order.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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As the Taoiseach is aware, many farmers were forced into building slatted houses under the nitrates directive and farmers have contributed €534 million in inputs alone towards the banks.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy could find a way to raise that matter with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food or he could raise it on Second Stage of the Bill.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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There should be provision within the banking sector for them. As the Taoiseach knows, cattle prices are falling and farmers are being pushed to the wall because there is no agricultural stocking credit available.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is entirely out of order.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle would know from his own constituency that stocking credit for farmers to provide the money to buy feed and livestock is not available and it is destroying agricultural activity, as my colleague, Deputy Crawford, and the leader of Fine Gael, Deputy Kenny, pointed out this morning. Farming enterprises form part of the small and medium enterprise sector and we should use our position to bring forward instruments within the NAMA legislation.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Electricity (Transfer of Assets) Bill has been promised for some time, to allow for the transfer of assets from ESB to Eirgrid. It was controversial when it was proposed and it is unnecessary. Does the Taoiseach intend to proceed with that legislation or will it be quietly shelved?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That legislation is still on the Order Paper and will be taken next year at the earliest.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister dealing with that Bill is otherwise engaged but it might do no harm if the Taoiseach reminded him the Bill has been on the Order Paper for some time; we would not want it to wilt there.

Is there a danger of a logjam with financial services legislation? Currently there are three Bills promised that relate to financial services and regulation - the Financial Services (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, the Financial Services (Regulation) Bill and the Reform of Financial Regulatory Structures Bill. All three are urgently needed but, in view of the complexity of the NAMA legislation and the likelihood that it will take some time, would it not be better to appoint another Minister to agree at least on the heads of the Bills so they can be brought before the House now?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The first Bill the Deputy mentioned will be introduced next year but we do not have dates for the other two Bills.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure Deputy Crawford will be in order when he asks his question.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have another question.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am afraid there are only three questions per customer.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That was an amorphous question.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy again.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Is there no loyalty bonus?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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For regular attenders, yes. I call Deputy Crawford.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Now the Minister for Health and Children has finally announced the "Fair Deal", which is not fair and will cause major problems to many people, when will the Health Information Bill be dealt with so we can get the truth from the HSE?

Will the Taoiseach organise a debate on agriculture? Farmers are desperate, farm assist grants are supposedly available but they are not because the personnel on the ground did not take the present situation into account and there is a very delicate situation for people who are under pressure. We should recognise that and deal with it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The fixing of debates is a matter for the whips. The Bill the Deputy asked about is due in the middle of 2010.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach introduce a consolidation Bill to clarify and simplify company law? There are currently 13 company law Acts, other regulations and case law. The Taoiseach previously indicated to the House that this Bill would be dealt with urgently. Has that happened and, if not, why not?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a huge project and it is not possible to give dates for when it will be introduced. I remember chairing a committee set up to look at Committee Stage of a companies Bill back in the late 1980s and we spent months doing it. Consolidation of 13 Bills relating to company law is a major task, as I remember.