Dáil debates

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

Ceisteanna — Questions

Cabinet Committees.

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the last occasion on which the Cabinet committee on economic renewal met; and when the next meeting is due. [25633/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the date of the last meeting of the Cabinet committee on economic renewal; and when the next meeting is scheduled. [27241/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the membership of the Cabinet committee on economic renewal. [27253/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach when the cross-departmental team on infrastructure and public private partnership will next meet; the number of meetings of the team planned for the remainder of 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30616/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on climate change will next meet. [30644/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach when the next progress report of the cross-departmental team on housing, infrastructure and public private partnership will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31183/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach the number of times the Cabinet committee on social inclusion has met since June 2007 to date. [31186/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach the number of times the Cabinet committee on health has met since June 2007 to date. [31187/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic renewal last met; when the committee is expected to next meet. [32519/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if the work of the Cabinet committee on housing, infrastructure and public private partnerships and its supporting cross-departmental team has been subsumed into the Cabinet committee on economic renewal. [33523/09]

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach the membership of the climate change advisory panel that will report to the Cabinet committee on climate change. [33819/09]

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach if he will consider facilitating a meeting between the members of the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security and the Cabinet sub-committee on climate change in the run up to the climate change talks in Copenhagen in December 2009. [34087/09]

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach the last time the Cabinet committee on climate change met; the timeframe for the next meeting; and the schedule for meetings for the remainder in 2009. [34090/09]

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 169: To ask the Taoiseach the membership of the climate change advisory panel that will report to the Cabinet committee on climate change; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33205/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to takes Questions Nos. 4 to 16, inclusive, and 169 together.

The Cabinet committee on economic renewal last met on 27 July 2009. The date of its next meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, 7 October. Membership of the Cabinet committee on economic renewal, which I chair, includes the Tánaiste, Minister for Finance, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Minister for Health and Children, with other Ministers attending as appropriate. As I indicated to the House in February, the Cabinet committee on housing, infrastructure and public private partnerships, PPPs, and its supporting cross-departmental team, have now been subsumed within these arrangements.

The Cabinet committee on social inclusion, children and integration has met four times since June 2007. The Cabinet committee on health has met on 15 occasions since June 2007. The next meeting of the Cabinet committee on climate change and energy security is scheduled to take place tomorrow, 7 October 2009, with further meetings as required during the remainder of 2009.

To further develop policies in the area of climate change an informal expert advisory panel on climate change and energy security has been established with international and national experts to advise the Cabinet committee on the potential for, and cost of, greenhouse gas reductions in the non-ETS sector. A list of members of the informal expert advisory panel established by the Cabinet committee is being circulated with this reply. I support the idea of close co-operation with the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security in the run-up to the Copenhagen summit in December and I have written to the Chairman of the committee suggesting that the best means of achieving this be considered by the relevant officials.

In conclusion, I emphasise that Cabinet committees are an integral part of the Cabinet process. Questions as to the business conducted at Cabinet or Cabinet committee meetings have never been allowed in the House on the grounds that they are internal to Government. The reasons for this approach are founded on sound policy principles and the need to avoid infringing the constitutional protection of Cabinet confidentiality. Membership of the Informal Expert Advisory Committee on Climate Change: Professor Stefan Proost, Faculty of Business and Economics (FBE), Department of Economics, K.U. Leuven; Professor Alan Matthews, Professor of European Agricultural Policy in the Department of Economics, School of Social Sciences and Philosophy, Trinity College Dublin; Professor Frank Convery, Professor of Environmental Studies, College of Human Sciences, School of Geography, Planning & Environmental Policy, University College Dublin and Chairman of Comhar; Professor Thomas Sterner, Professor of Environmental Economics, Gothenburg; Jack Short, Secretary General, International Transport Forum; Paul Watkiss, Independent consultant specialising in environmental and economic policy advice; Brendan Walsh, Professor Emeritus of Economics in University College Dublin. Professor Peter Clinch, Special Adviser to the Taoiseach

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Last December, the Government published Ireland's framework for sustainable economic renewal, which set out a series of actions for the development of what was called a "smart economy". The document was a revival and rehash of many different programmes that were already in existence. Of the 125 action points contained in the summary, only one action plan could be described as new, and it referred to a €500 million innovation fund. What is the status of that €500 million euro fund now? Is the money in place? How much of it is left? Will the Taoiseach identify what elements of innovation have been funded through the innovation fund referred to in the action plan?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The factual position I have to outline here relates to the questions. With regard to the specific issue raised by the Deputy, the question of supporting innovation is fundamental to improving competitiveness in the economy. A great deal of support has been given to that area, in the hundreds of millions of euro, through a wide range of research and development rogrammes. The question of setting up specific funds around existing funds or using them in addition to existing funds would be a matter for budgetary consideration.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the Taoiseach saying the committee dealing with sustainable economic renewal discussed this action plan? The sum of €500 million is a great deal of money. The Taoiseach referred to assistance for innovation and science related activities and so forth. That is welcome but was the €500 million referred to in the 125 action points in addition to what was in place previously? Does he have an account of what it has been spent on or what elements of it have been spent and, if so, on what they have been spent? Can we identify a report on progress made in dealing with the €500 million innovation fund?

In respect of the committee on sustainable economic renewal, the Minister for Finance, in his budget speech in April, stated:

There is scope to access significant private funds for infrastructure projects in order to sustain as many construction jobs and as much activity as possible... This would support existing PPP projects and other projects previously funded by the Exchequer.

What is the status of the Minister's proposal in this regard? Is an activity report available on what has happened arising from his proposal? Is the Taoiseach able to identify the major capital projects discussed at the economic recovery committee arising from the Minister's comments in April last? Have specific projects been attracted under the public-private partnership system arising from the Minister's comments?

In respect of the European Union, most Members of the House are very happy with the decision taken by the majority of the electorate when it voted last Friday. The European Union has established an €8 billion stimulus package for major projects. Has the economic recovery committee examined this package and is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate the number or kinds of applications, if any, that have been made to the European Union in respect of drawing down some of these funds, which have been made available across the Union, for Ireland?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy is aware, it is not possible for me to discuss with him, in the context of replies at Question Time, what goes on at Cabinet committees or during Cabinet meetings. I can only do so in respect of decisions when they are taken. I am not, therefore, in a position to indicate to the Deputy progress made in any discussions in areas which are protected by Cabinet confidentiality.

On matters generally, the Minister for Finance has been emphasising the need for value for money in the capital budget. Great value for money is now available because of the more competitive pricing that is in play. I understand an average improvement in pricing of 20% has been achieved.

There has been a wide range of continuing significant capital commitments during this year. Despite the difficult fiscal position, the Government is spending more than €7 billion on public capital programmes and a capital programme will also feature next year. The important aspect of the programme is the ability to improve and increase output from resources that are not as plentiful as they were. This is a big plus in terms of ensuring that the absolute maximum of employment is achieved in respect of the implementation of the programme.

Similarly, in respect of European Investment Bank funds and other supports, continuing access is being made, where appropriate, from various Departments.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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If I understood the Taoiseach correctly, the committee on economic renewal is due to meet tomorrow.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The next meeting will be tomorrow.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The committee last met on 9 July.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It met on 27 July.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In other words, what is arguably the most important committee has had nearly three months holidays at a time of massive unemployment, the collapse of the banking system and the publication of the Commission on Taxation and McCarthy reports.

3:00 pm

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Cabinet has been meeting every week.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand the committee on economic renewal is supposed to be a key operator in terms of the cross-cutting, interdepartmental Cabinet committees. Given the economic crisis and weight of the budgetary and banking matters that must be addressed, does the Taoiseach believe it is appropriate to hold a meeting every two and a half months or have a two and a half month summer break? The last time the Taoiseach answered questions on the committee on economic renewal, it did not appear that this committee had any function in the banking crisis. Does it have a function in the banking crisis? When it meets, will it have referred to it, the fact that JP Morgan has indicated that Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland will need capitalisation of €17 billion and Anglo Irish Bank, which is a dead bank, will need a further €6 billion? Is the banking issue discussed by this committee when it meets? In regard to the budgetary situation, will the committee have an opportunity to discuss the McCarthy report and, particularly, the Commission on Taxation report? Is that parked, as the Taoiseach indicated in remarks he made a couple of weeks ago?

In regard to the counterpart committee-----

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have to remind Deputy Burton that these questions, statistical or otherwise, could undermine Cabinet confidentiality. I have to remind the Deputy of that.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am very sorry to take issue with the Ceann Comhairle on anything, but the banking crisis and unemployment are central to everything that is happening in the country.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do you see my problem?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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How could this committee, which seems to be central to Cabinet and Government — I think the term is "cross-cutting committees" — manage to have a two and a half month holiday? It is a reasonable question.

In regard to its counterpart committee dealing with social inclusion, children and integration, would that committee have had an opportunity to discuss the social impact of the report of the McCarthy committee, an bord snip nua, in particular the impact on children of the cuts proposed by the McCarthy report?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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These matters impinge on Cabinet confidentiality.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Cabinet meets every week, sometimes more than once a week and, from time to time, twice a week, depending on the workload or requirements. All of these matters are discussed at Cabinet. Cabinet committees can meet in smaller format and their purpose is to provide assistance on specific issues that arise or specific areas of policy that require co-ordination or further discussion. That is the basis on which the economic, social or any other committee meets. Frequency of meetings is not a full indicator of activity or consideration being given by Government in respect of any of these matters. Full Cabinet meetings deal with these matters extensively on an ongoing basis as a priority. I cannot go into any more detail, other than that, to explain the workings of the committee.

In regard to the committee on social inclusion, we have been dealing with all those matters in full Cabinet meetings. The Deputy asked about various reports being considered by Government. We are beginning the budgetary and Estimates process. A very serious challenge to our public finances exists and we have to come forward with a budgetary position which will meet that. From our point of view, the role of Cabinet committees is to supplement the role of Cabinet and not to replace it.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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On climate change, I was glad the Taoiseach attended the United Nations summit on climate change. It sent out a very important signal. I also welcome his statement today that he will ensure the facilitation of a meeting between the sub-committee and the Joint Oireachtas Committee. Would it be possible for the Taoiseach to attend that meeting, because he is chairperson of the sub-committee? It would be important for us to have a round-table discussion in advance of what will be decided in Copenhagen. Can the Taoiseach give the House some clarification on the advisory panel?

I understand the climate change committee has an advisory panel of in-house civil servants and senior departmental officials. Who are the members of the international advisory panel mentioned by the Taoiseach? I am a little unclear on the role of that panel. I will not ask the Taoiseach about the agenda for tomorrow's meeting of the sub-committee because the rules of Cabinet confidentiality prohibit him from giving me such information. However, I advise him that certain organisations representing the interests of the developing world are concerned that our overseas aid budget will be hijacked to ensure we can meet our obligations under the EU's climate change policy. Will the Taoiseach ensure that does not happen? Will he focus on the additionality that is so important if we are to protect the overseas aid budget? I understand it is no longer proposed that heads of state will attend the Copenhagen summit. Does the Taoiseach share that understanding? Perhaps he will update the House on the matter.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have asked the relevant officials to support the idea of close co-operation between the Oireachtas joint committee and the expert panel on climate change and energy security. I have written to the Chairman of the joint committee to suggest that the best means of achieving such co-operation is to engage in discussions with the relevant officials. We await the outcome of that process. The members of the informal expert advisory panel on climate change — those who are offering us advice — are Professor Stefan Proost, who works in the faculty of business and economics, within the department of economics, at the University of Leuven in Belgium; Professor Alan Matthews, who is a professor of European agricultural policy in the department of economics, within the school of social sciences and philosophy, at Trinity College Dublin; Professor Frank Convery, who is a professor of environmental studies in the college of human sciences, within the school of geography, planning and environmental policy, at University College Dublin and is also the chairman of Comhar; Professor Thomas Sterner, who is a professor of environmental economics at the University of Gothenburg; Mr. Jack Short, who is the secretary general of the International Transport Forum; Mr. Paul Watkiss, who is an independent consultant specialising in environmental and economic policy advice; Professor Brendan Walsh, who is the professor emeritus of economics at University College Dublin; and Professor Peter Clinch, who is a special adviser to the Department of the Taoiseach. I have not yet heard who will attend the Copenhagen summit. I am sure there are plenty of rumours and views on who will or will not attend. I hope the summit will take place. I think many Governments will be represented at the summit at the highest level. The heads of government and state focus on this urgent global issue whenever the European Council meets. It is usually an important item on the agenda. I am not quite sure to what Deputy McManus referred when she spoke about overseas development aid. It is obvious that we will seek to meet our burden-sharing commitments, just as everybody else will.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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While I hope the Taoiseach attends the Copenhagen summit, I understand that will probably not happen. Does he accept that it would send a strong message if the Government were to publish a climate change Bill before the Copenhagen summit? Even if the Bill had not gone through the Oireachtas, its existence would indicate that Ireland is playing its part. Will the Taoiseach ensure that the Bill that has been promised by the Government will be published by that stage?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be aware that the Government will have to consider many legislative commitments between now and then. Obviously, there is a view that the climate change Bill can be worked on. At the moment, the real issue is whether the Copenhagen summit will be a success. There are many major policy issues and further discussions will take place to try to ensure that states such as the US and China will engage and be in a position to contribute to a solution. The UN conference to which the Deputy referred arose on foot of the efforts by the UN Secretary General to create more political momentum as we enter a critical phase of negotiations. The conference was successful in that regard but everyone's focus is now on converting political momentum into political will and outcomes which measure up to the challenge.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The "Yes" side in the recent Lisbon treaty referendum told us we had a choice between ruin and recovery. Some drew an equation between the passage of Lisbon and the creation of jobs. Will the Cabinet committee on economic renewal now address the need to formulate a plan or strategy to seriously tackle growing unemployment levels in this State, given that the Government has not produced any such strategy since the general election of 2007 and certainly has not since the current economic crisis began?

Would the Taoiseach agree that it is nauseating to hear some economic commentators refer to the so-called first shoots of recovery as indicative of the clock having turned when they are actually referring to the international stock markets, that is, the very gambling dens which contributed heavily to the creation of the crisis in the first place? Would he accept that the real first shoots of recovery will not be international stock markets but the reversal of the trend of growing unemployment across this country? Unemployment currently stands at 440,000 people and this figure is projected to rise significantly over the coming months. Can he give the House an assurance that the Cabinet committee will be coming forward with proposals to tackle the unemployment crisis through real and imaginative initiatives that curtail the continuing haemorrhage of unemployment and create new and sustainable work opportunities?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The role of the committee is of course to assist the economy back to recovery in whatever way we can. With respect to Deputy Ó Caoláin, that cannot be done in a void. It must be done on the basis of a stable financial system both domestically and internationally. The purpose is not to bail out banks but to ensure we have a system which is geared to bring about the recovery that everyone seeks. Without a functioning and viable financial system, our prospects of recovery are greatly postponed. The reason priority must be given to this matter is because of the global nature of the crisis in the financial markets.

Our second consideration is improving competitiveness in the Irish economy. Now that we are in a recession and experiencing depleted demand for the goods and services we provide to international markets, we need to be competitive and maintain market share in order to sell in similar volumes, if with tighter margins, the goods and services we produce and provide. Unless everything we do is geared towards that objective, the availability, sustainability and creation of jobs is put at risk because that is the only way we can increase enterprise and opportunity.

I reject the assertion that the Government lacks a plan. We have provided a mid-term fiscal consolidation plan which has been approved by the EU, as we were required to do. Through our smart economy framework, we have also provided a mid-term economic recovery programme emphasising areas of the economy which can create wealth and jobs. At the same time, we are required to correct our public finances because otherwise we put at risk the sustainability of public services and, more important, divert the resources currently being provided by the people towards increasing debt and interest repayments. I remind Deputies, however, that while we have a large deficit, we have a relatively low debt burden compared to some other countries because of our prudent management of finances in terms of halving our debt during the good times. That headroom, which is now available to us in the coming years, must be prudently managed and prioritised towards areas of activity that will generate economic growth and provide us with the prospect of recovery. That is the position.

The decision made on Friday last by the Irish people is a positive step by all of our citizens to help effect recovery by showing confidence in the strategic direction in which this country must go. While there would be democratic debate about all of these matters, the vast majority of the Irish people indicated that they wanted the European Union to be part of the framework for recovery in this country.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Would the Taoiseach give some sense of what innovative ideas the Government has been considering in tackling the growing unemployment? For instance, what is his position on the German approach of giving support to employers to retain people at work rather than facing the even more costly situation of growing numbers on the employment queues? Just to give us a sense of where he stands on same, has he given any consideration to that proposition?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government, since June, has provided an employment subsidy scheme to help those export-oriented industries in the SME sector that need our assistance and support, and that is being been taken up in broad measure. There is a commitment given by Government over the two fiscal years to meet that commitment up to the tune of €250 million. That is a significant commitment in terms of that aspect of employment support, while at the same time everyone must understand that unless the economy is competitive, the prospect of maintaining existing jobs — let alone creating new jobs — is put at risk without that adjustment that must be made.