Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 July 2009

Ceisteanna - Questions

Northern Ireland Issues.

2:30 pm

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions since 4 June 2009 with the First and Deputy First Minister and with the British Prime Minister regarding the ongoing implementation of the Good Friday Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24767/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25733/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25734/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27135/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, together.

My most recent contacts with the British Prime Minister were on the Lisbon treaty and discussions which took place at the recent European Council meeting on which I have already reported to the House.

I last met with the Northern Ireland political parties at the eighth plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council which took place yesterday at Farmleigh House in the Phoenix Park. The meeting was attended by the First Minister, Peter Robinson, and Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, as well as a range of Government Ministers and Ministers from the Executive.

At the meeting we had positive and constructive exchanges across the full range of agenda items. We had a broad discussion of the economic challenges facing the island and our respective responses to dealing with the downturn and its impact, particularly on the banking sectors in both jurisdictions. We outlined our Government's intention to establish a National Asset Management Agency and it was agreed that there would be an early meeting of the two Finance Ministers to discuss those issues.

The council noted the contribution of continuing practical and mutually beneficial North-South co-operation to assisting both Administrations in their efforts to promote growth and employment; the contribution that the all-island economy can make and how we can work together to provide better and more efficient public services North and South.

We noted progress on the A5 and A8 roads projects and agreed procedures governing payment of the Irish Government contribution. In accordance with this, payment of €9 million will be made by the Minister for Transport to the Northern Ireland consolidated fund before the end of 2009.

The council also confirmed its intention to conclude the St. Andrew's review process before the end of 2009 and it instructed the review group to accelerate its work on all the elements of the review and to provide a final report at the next meeting of the plenary session. In addition, the meeting welcomed recent North-South co-operation on matters such as the swine flu outbreak and cross-Border arrangements for the removal of illegally dumped waste.

Overall, there have been some positive developments in Northern Ireland. I believe that the time is right to complete the process of the devolution of policing and justice powers to the Northern Ireland Executive. I am encouraged by the comments of the First Minister that discussions on the financial arrangements to allow this are making progress.

I would also like to welcome the recent announcements made by the loyalist organisations on decommissioning. Both Governments have always been firm in our demand that all weapons on all sides should be decommissioned. We also welcome the moves that the loyalist organisations have been making in recent years to move on.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Taoiseach taken the opportunity to address, with the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and the British Prime Minister, the importance of moving on with the proposal to move policing and justice powers from London to Belfast? Does he agree this is long overdue and is essential as an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement and all that was promised therein? Does he also agree that for the new dispensation to function in the North, we need to see a new beginning to policing and justice? Therefore, will the Taoiseach undertake to renew his efforts to encourage all concerned to move quickly to put policing and justice firmly in place in Belfast?

I note from various print media this morning the progress reported from yesterday's all-Ireland ministerial council meeting with regard to a number of projects. I have questions with regard to a number of those projects - outworkings of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement - including the A5 which joins up with the N2 on this side of the Border and which will complete the Dublin-Derry-Donegal connections. The Taoiseach stated that confirmation of the expected routes would be announced shortly. Can he be more specific as to when we will have the detail? When does he expect this will be announced?

With regard to two further elements to which reference was made, was there any progress on the Ulster canal project? Can the Taoiseach give us an indication of the current status and the intention of both Administrations for this flagship project which is of tremendous importance and which has the potential to bring about significant economic rejuvenation of the Border counties, North and South? Also, with regard to the Government's withdrawal of funding from the all-Ireland autism centre for excellence at Middletown in County Armagh, a joint North-South project, is there any change in the Government's position with regard to the indication by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, of a withdrawal of funding already committed for the development of that centre this year? Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Government will restore its joint commitment to the development of that important project for children with autism on this island?

12:00 pm

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On policing, I understand the First Minister and Deputy First Minister will have a further meeting next week with the British Prime Minister on the matter. There are financial arrangements and implications with regard to the decision and it is necessary to address those issues as part of the process that has been agreed for the transfer of devolved powers of policing and justice to Northern Ireland as soon as possible. There is significant work going on in that respect. It is important the issue is dealt with in that context as that is where the issue stands currently. We support and encourage a speedy resolution of these issues so that matters can move on more quickly towards the ultimate objective agreed by all, namely, that there should be devolved powers of policing and justice to Northern Ireland. This important part of the process needs to be completed as soon as possible in the interest of stability and wider ownership by everybody of the process itself.

On the question of the A5, we have seen agreement on preferred routes recently and there has been significant work done between the roads authority in Northern Ireland and the National Roads Authority here. I understand both sides are happy with the level of progress that has been made by their respective roads authorities on the issue. We are ready to move to the next stage soon. I understand the Minister for Transport and his counterpart in the Northern Ireland Executive will meet to discuss the rate of progress shortly, as soon as the next arrangements are made for a meeting. On both sides, happiness was expressed at the progress that has been made in regard to that major project.

With regard to the Ulster Canal, the Minister, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, has made arrangements for a meeting with his new counterpart, Mr. McCausland, in a matter of weeks, at which that issue will continue to be discussed to see whether it can be progressed. I have not got the up-to-date position on the Middletown situation but I will have the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, convey it to the Deputy.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his responses. In regard to the A5-N2, there remains an amount of confusion in regard to the intentions concerning the development on this side of the Border - that element within County Monaghan from Clontibret to the Border at or near Aughnacloy. In the absence of the Taoiseach's ability to answer the question directly today, is it possible he would ask that clarification be forwarded to me? There is great concern that this will not be an A5-N2 but an A5 only, which would be a mistake with serious consequences. We definitely need to see that joined up and properly considered.

With regard to the earlier questions on the Middletown project, while I welcome that the Taoiseach will have an update transmitted to me, there is a tremendous concern among families and the organisations which represent families with children on the autism spectrum as to the Government's intentions vis-À-vis this project. This was jointly announced by the then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Michael Woods, and the then Minister for Education, Mr. Martin McGuinness. Can the Taoiseach give an indication that he is working towards restoring the commitment that existed up to recently and that the proposed development at that site in the current year can proceed unhindered and without delay?

I note discussions are to be held between the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and the newly appointed Minister north of the Border, Mr. Sammy Wilson, on the implications of NAMA for the Six Counties. Will the Taoiseach indicate what format that engagement will take? What are the expectations of the impact of the advent of NAMA north of the Border? With legislation to come here, will due consideration be given to any impact north of the Border in the legislative preparation here? Will legislation be required in the Executive to mirror that effect and has this been considered? Can the Taoiseach give us some sense of the position?

Finally, it is appropriate that we would record a united rejection of the outrageous treatment meted out to non-national residents within the Belfast area recently. I speak specifically of people from the Roma and Romanian backgrounds who have been subjected to very severe attacks, a significant number of whom have left our shores as a result. Can we unite in agreed rejection of these outrageous racist acts?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is sweeping with a broad brush. I call the Taoiseach.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have the technical detail on the A5 to hand. The National Roads Authority is more specifically the body involved as these are technical engineering issues. I know issues are being raised by Deputies in the area and I can get an update in this regard.

On the question of what will happen in Middletown, I ask the Deputy to accept I will have the Minister set out the up-to-date position. I cannot recommit to anything unless and until we see in what way that project will evolve. There were certain ideas at the time and discussions had taken place as to how Middletown would be used in the context of the provision of services in this area, and this is still under consideration. We have to work this out in detail as we go along but it is best that the Deputy would await a considered reply from the Minister as to the accurate, up-to-date position.

The question of the agreement to meet, made between the Minister for Finance and the Finance Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive, arose from a briefing by the Minister for Finance at a meeting in respect of the National Asset Management Agency and the role it will play in helping us to restructure the banking industry, provide long-term liquidity and more easily accessible credit to Irish business generally by way of bringing distressed assets under the aegis of the agency. The Northern Ireland First Minister would have referred to the role the Executive has played in respect of identifying assets for possible disposal for use subsequently in the social housing area within Northern Ireland in terms of a policy objective it has identified. The need for practical co-operation is emphasised when one considers the two policy objectives we have.

All the activities of the National Assets Management Agency will be based upon purely commercial criteria. It is not envisaged that there would be a fire sale of all assets that come under the aegis of the agency. The idea is to put those on a longer time horizon such that we can recover value in respect of those assets the current value of which, because of present market failure or depression, does not correspond to the acquired value of the assets in recent times. The reason behind the asset management agency concept in the first place is the need to find a longer time horizon in which to recover asset values in a way that could not be carried by private financial institutions and which must meet current market disciplines and at the same time make sufficient provision for bad or doubtful debt in the future. Without going into the detail, that was all mentioned and explained by the Minister for Finance. The meeting of finance ministers was to ensure the provision of a briefing by the Minister for Finance on a confidential basis for his colleagues in the North, that they understand and know not only the concept but the way in which the proposal would be implemented and applied, to keep them appraised of the issue so that they can understand in terms of their policy approach and know what it is that we must achieve as well.

Assets are located in Northern Ireland that would come under the aegis of the National Asset Management Agency and the Executive would like to be appraised generally about the impact or otherwise the proposal would have on the property market as it evolves in the coming months and years as well. It is entirely legitimate and a meeting and briefing between Ministers is an obvious way of clearing lines in respect of how things will progress.

On the issue of racism, we all deplore any acts of violence or intimidation against anyone, particularly where there are racist overtones. It was pointed out at the meeting on the Northern Ireland Executive side that while that matter, rightly, received a good deal of press and media coverage, including the utter condemnation by everyone against the acts, it was also highlighted that there are many good things happening within communities in efforts to integrate non-nationals into Northern Ireland society and that this should be highlighted to enable a full and rounded picture to emerge. Without in any way justifying unacceptable racist activities or occurrences there are many things taking place which are a good deal more positive in nature which should be emphasised.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I refer to the briefing by the Minister for Finance in respect of NAMA. Remarks are attributed to the Northern Ireland First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson, in respect of NAMA and the way in which it would operate. He indicated his fears that assets, which would be presumably covered by Irish banks and, therefore, part of the NAMA process, might be put for sale on the market and sold off cheaply. His major concern appeared to be that this would impact negatively on the Northern Ireland property market. I refer to the report in The Irish Times by Deaglán de Bréadún. Is the impact on the property market in Northern Ireland now a factor in respect of NAMA valuations? Judging by what the First Minister was saying, they would like to keep asset valuations high so as to prevent a property market dipping down further. This would imply that the taxpayer in the South would have to take those assets at an artificially high valuation because it does not sound like the value would be marked to market or anywhere near it.

Is this issue of the Northern Ireland property market now a major factor in the approach to the valuation of assets in the NAMA process? This would appear to be so from the report in The Irish Times. I am surprised that the discussion centred around the real economy and Main Street, rather than the property market and jobs because it is the restoration of jobs, sustaining employment and battling unemployment that I would have thought was the most important issue for Ireland, North and South. Are the comments attributed to the First Minister, Mr. Robinson-----

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must allow Deputy Kenny and there are only three or four minutes remaining.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----fair and do they reflect the discussion?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the announcement by the UDA and the UVF of demilitarisation and the decommissioning of weapons. I wish to ask the Taoiseach a few straightforward questions. The Minister for Finance said that he made a mistake in increasing the VAT rate. The real issue in respect of the difference in costs between the North and South was in the main due to the differential between sterling and the euro. The perception among people in the Republic was that because of a reduction in VAT in Britain and Northern Ireland and an increase here, there were real bargains to be had and more than €700 million was spent north of the Border. Was this matter discussed yesterday and was there any indication that the Minister for Finance intends to reverse that decision?

In respect of climate change and energy, what is the position regarding the North-South interconnector? There is a problem from the midlands to the Border. Was this matter discussed between the Government and its Northern Ireland counterparts?

Was there any discussion about the appointment of the North-South Parliamentary Body which is part of the Good Friday Agreement structure? It is high time there was a move on this. People in all parties here have an interest in seeing that we move on to build more completely on the Good Friday Agreement. Was there any discussion or timescale agreed?

In April last year the Taoiseach indicated that it would be in order for companies operating in the IFSC to set up offices in the North to deal with a skills shortage in the Republic. He estimated at that time there could have been 3,000 to 5,000 jobs created in Northern Ireland. Was this matter discussed at the ministerial meeting yesterday? Has there been any progress on this matter or has it been decided that as a result of the conditions applying now it might be better and in everyone's interest to have as many jobs as possible created here? Was this discussed?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The general economic situation was discussed and it was in this context that the issue of NAMA arose. It was part of the discussion. I emphasise to Deputy Burton that her surmise regarding comments attributed to the First Minster is not correct. I am sure the First Minister was accurately quoted about his various concerns and I explained in a previous reply the context in which those concerns were expressed. I also made the point that commercial criteria apply in respect of the National Asset Management Agency. There is no differentiated approach with regard to how assets are valued. The question of valuation methodology must be approved by the European Commission in any event so there is no question of that arising at all. These matters will all be dealt with consistently. They are taken on a case by case basis but it is not a question of the National Asset Management Agency acquiring assets for the purpose of immediate disposal. It is a question of providing, in the main, a longer time horizon to allow asset value recover rather than immediate disposal of assets. That is the reason a briefing by the Minister for Finance with his counterpart in the North would be useful in that respect so that they will have a full understanding and view of what is involved and get a detailed assessment from us. It was in that context that the meeting was arranged. There is no change from what is envisaged.

Regarding what Deputy Kenny said, the question of volatility of exchange rates between sterling and the euro is not something under the direct control of this Government. The whole purpose of the North-South agenda is the long-term issues. In what way can we provide building blocks that will make the island economy more competitive? In what way can we bring the island economy to the fore? In what way can we identify practical areas of co-operation across a range of areas, not only those set out originally? The whole idea of the interaction at ministerial level and in plenary format is as a confidence building measure so that both sides see the value of that co-operation and the need to explore its potential. In particular, in the context of the changed economic circumstances in which we find ourselves, a strong point I will be making is that now, more than ever, the need for close interaction and co-operation between North and South is important in the context of hard-pressed taxpayers in both jurisdictions providing moneys and trying to maintain service levels of public services. At the same time there is a need to see in what way we can co-operate and avoid duplication. This is an agenda that is all the more important and emphatic now than was the case before this, indeed more so.

In the context of working through financial services, the purpose in that regard was the mix and match approach. There are parts of the financial services industry in which we are well established, and there are very well paid jobs available here. There are other aspects of the financial services industry where we are no longer competitive but in which the Northern Ireland area might be competitive. Why would we not work together to try to ensure we maximise the island-wide approach? That is what co-operation is about.

In terms of increasing the cake and making sure it is available, we know that since autumn of last year an earthquake has taken place in the financial services industry, which obviously might delay the original hopes of that programme but it is nonetheless valid. Avoiding partitionist thinking is important in this issue.