John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The House will resume on Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, which are being taken together.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Taoiseach for his responses to both sets of questions. Is it again the case that the Cabinet sub-committee on health, which also takes in responsibility for children, has met on 13 occasions since June 2007? Is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate the frequency of those meetings over the course of recent months as report after report unfolded regarding the very serious ill-treatment of young people placed by the State in institutional care over many decades? Will the Taoiseach indicate how recently that committee has met? Has it directly addressed the recommendations in the Monageer and Ryan reports? What further address of the recommendations will the Cabinet sub-committee undertake over the period ahead? Does the committee also address health policy? If this is the case, will it revisit the absolutely discredited private for profit co-location policy that the Minster for Health and Children - who is by the Taoiseach's side - has pressed over her tenure in office in recent years?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Matters that are privy to the Cabinet cannot be deliberated upon in the House.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am constrained because it is a matter of record that one cannot engage in a detailed discussion about what goes on at Cabinet sub-committee meetings, no more than one can talk about what goes on at Cabinet until such time as decisions are taken and are communicated to the House and to the public.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the sub-committee address policy?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Sub-committees deal with various policy issues on an ongoing basis. This Cabinet sub-committee met in February, March, April and May this year. Issues such as Monageer can be dealt with generally at Cabinet meetings.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I refer to the Cabinet sub-committee on health, which the Taoiseach chairs. Did it deal with the closure of wards in Crumlin children's hospital and the difficulties that has given rise to for children who have had operations postponed, including spinal surgery?

In reply to Deputy Ó Caoláin, the Taoiseach said while matters are under consideration, he cannot discuss them in the House until they are decided on and announced to the public. However, a decision announced to the public in 2005 by the Minister for Health and Children was her plan to fast-track the provision of hospital beds by means of the co-location of private hospitals on the grounds of public hospitals. Has the sub-committee given consideration to how fast the fast-tracking has been over the four-year period since 2005? None of the co-located hospitals has materialised and not a single bed has been fast-tracked. Is consideration being given to examining a different fast track now for the provision of hospital beds, since the fast track chosen by the Minister clearly has run into something of a siding?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy's question relates to the membership of the Cabinet sub-committee on health. I cannot see how it can be extended to these realms, unless the Taoiseach would like to be helpful in this regard.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach might like to be helpful. He was helpful to the other Deputies.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I always like to be helpful.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If the Taoiseach wants to be helpful, I will not stop him.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would not want to feel left out.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Whether what I have to say is regarded as helpful is a different thing.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is a matter for the Taoiseach.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is highly unlikely. I have not been able to surprise the Deputy so far.

His basic question is whether the sub-committee engages itself in operational matters that come under the statutory authority and remit of the HSE and the answer is "No". However, the sub-committee seeks to ensure in the implementation of policy that the operational responsibility, where it lies, is exercised with due regard to the policy outlined by Cabinet.

I do not want to go into the specifics of the Crumlin issue because it will be dealt with in detail during Private Members' time this week but, clearly, certain assertions are being made, which are not correct.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The board of the hospital and doctors told me.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would well believe that.

The issue is when one compares the money being expended on paediatrics in this city to other cities of a similar size, there is a great deal of room for ensuring that the resources are provided to the front line more easily than is the case currently. That will require support from everyone in the House to look to reforms, which are necessary in the context of finite budgets, and the need to ensure that there is effective and efficient delivery of service in all circumstances.

The Deputy asked about the provision of additional beds. There have been many efficiencies in this area but with regard to the Minister for Health and Children's initiative, a number of co-located hospitals have been delayed because of appeals against planning decisions by certain individuals or groups. Work continues to be done to make financial arrangements for the funding of the proposals. The whole idea of course is to ensure that the greater number of public beds in our public hospitals will be available for public patients.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

My question relates to the Cabinet Sub-Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security. Does the Taoiseach receive reports or a copy of the minutes from the committee I chair, the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security? This committee has met 37 times since it was established in November 2007, but we have received very little feedback from the Cabinet sub-committee. The Oireachtas committee is unique in that it is an all-party committee that endeavours to operate on an all-party basis at all times. The committee includes members from all parties in the Dáil and Seanad and includes Independent Members.

The work of the Oireachtas committee will only be successful if there is co-operation between the Government and the committee. One of our major initiatives was to prepare legislation on an all-party basis to fill a void that existed in the energy area - the Offshore Renewable Energy Development Bill. We were told by those who made submissions to us there was a possibility of a €16 billion investment in this area. However, apart from an acknowledgment from the Taoiseach, as chairperson of the sub-committee, we did not even receive the courtesy of a note from the sub-committee commenting on the legislation.

I wonder whether we are wasting time on the Oireachtas committee or whether it was only established as a front to placate the Green Party. I and my colleagues could have done a lot more with our time than waste it attending 37 meetings since November 2007 without the co-operation of the Government. Ireland could become a net exporter of energy in the foreseeable future if we had investment into the European supergrid following upgrading of our grid. Our committee is not a Mickey Mouse one that meets to keep us all amused. We are talking about jobs, significant investment, including inward investment into the country in the future, and the replacement of massive quantities of imports. Currently we import 90% fossil fuels to produce our energy.

Are we really wasting our time on this committee or is a serious effort being made to deal with this matter? We have endeavoured to do our part. I have the great honour of chairing this committee and am very fortunate to have many committed members, some of whom are present here. Can we have greater co-operation between us and the Cabinet sub-committee? Should we scrap our papers on the Private Members' Bill we have prepared and leave it to individual parties to use Private Members' time to deal with the issue? Is the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources really serious about dealing with this issue? I would like to know this so I can report back to the committee at its next meeting, tomorrow.

Are we serious about dealing with offshore wind and wave energy or not? There are no structures in place here currently to allow the development of that industry. There is no planning structure in place, yet we are told there is some €16 billion of potential investment waiting to be put into the sector.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has made his point. He is broadening the remit of the question beyond all.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The problem with this issue is that it crosses numerous Departments, not just one. The question asked by Deputy Ó Caoláin earlier about the decision of our transport company to cut back on public transport also has an impact on the area of climate change. In one breath we lecture people and tell them to use public transport, but in the next breath we tell them we are taking buses off the road. Are we really serious about dealing with this issue?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is asking statistical questions. We are broadening the remit of the questions. It is a matter of the Taoiseach accommodating Members and agreeing to answer questions which are beyond the remit of these statistical questions.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is very important.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In deference to the Deputy's interest in the matter, I will ask the Taoiseach to be as helpful as he can. I am merely pointing out what is the position. These are questions for the line Minister. That is the problem.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The reorganisation of the bus fleet in Dublin or anywhere else depends on the facts. From memory, bus passenger numbers are down by 10% which, against a background of finite budgets, means that some reorganisation has to take place in the interest of providing a sustainable public transport system in the city. These are the challenges management in that company, as in other companies, have to face, in the face of a downturn in the usage of public transport. It is important that we bear those issues in mind as we try to provide a service to the people.

The issue Deputy Barrett raised is a matter on which I saw correspondence between the Minister and the committee some time ago. My understanding of the situation was that while it does have interdepartmental responsibilities, the Minister, Deputy Ryan is not solely responsible for this matter but he indicated a preparedness to meet with the committee and see in what way the arguments being put forward by it can be advanced. The best prospect of doing that is by direct engagement with the line Minister concerned.

The Cabinet committee is a creature of Cabinet and takes some of the workload from Cabinet in its full plenary session on to the committee's work. Policy formulation or proposals on offshore energy production and the potential our coasts and waters have for such proposals are matters that can and should be advanced with the line Minister and Department. Inviting people in, including those with technical expertise and the political heads of Department, to see in what way progress is being made would be beneficial. I will also raise the matter personally with the Minister.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I appreciate the Taoiseach's response. Regarding what Deputy Barrett has said, none of us on the committee would want to raise these issues here on questions to the Taoiseach, except for the fact that the recourse he is proposing is not working. I ask the Taoiseach to respond as to how we move beyond the arrangements he is suggesting should work but are not working. We have had Ministers before the committee, it has proposed legislation and nothing is happening.

I have no doubt the Taoiseach, as Chairman of the sub-committee, is very conscious of the urgency regarding climate change. It is the largest challenge facing us, in terms of our global responsibilities but the record is not good. Will the Taoiseach consider organising a meeting between the Members of the Cabinet sub-committee and the Members of the Oireachtas committee in preparation for Copenhagen at the end of the year? We have to do things differently because the world is changing and because of the threat of climate change. So far, nothing is being done differently to the way it was done before. I urge the Taoiseach to look at this in a different way.

I have a suggestion to make to which the Taoiseach might respond. If we had a meeting between the Cabinet sub-committee and the Oireachtas committee, it may lead the way, in terms of resolving issues here at home and our approach internationally. We are one of the greatest polluters in Europe. Either we will continue with that shame or we will work towards low carbon economic growth, which is the commitment we are making internationally but are not living up to at home.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will look into the suggestions that are being made and come back to the Deputy.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In adding to the appeal, would the Taoiseach take on board that one of the reasons I particularly focused in on the Minister for Transport was because of recent decisions announced by Bus Éireann? The fact is there to be established if the Taoiseach checks with the Minister. He refuses to answer questions here on the public transport service.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy will have to take that up with the Minister.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It happens to be the case that Members of this House are compelled to see that this matter is addressed by whatever limited means are open to us.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy will have to take that up with him.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is of huge importance-----

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy will have to ask a question that is relevant.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----in regard, presumably, to the business the Cabinet sub-committee on climate change is supposed to address.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I call Deputy Gilmore.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Arising from the Taoiseach's earlier reply to Deputy McManus, when she asked about the prospects of a climate change Bill being produced by the Government and drew his attention to the fact that the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, has promised that such a Bill will be presented to the House before Christmas, the Taoiseach in response relied on the programme for Government. The interesting and surprising point about the programme for Government was that it did not in any way commit to a climate change Bill. Will the Government introduce a climate change Bill or will it not?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If the Government so decides, of course it will.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is like asking how long is a piece of string. What is the Government's-----

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is beyond the remit of these questions.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is an immediate issue that is being addressed by the Government. We have had lengthy discussions on all of the workings of the Cabinet sub-committee-----

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----which I presume must be discussing something. It must have, even tangentially, come up with the prospect of a climate change Bill, particularly if a member of the Cabinet is out there saying there will be such a Bill. All I want to know is whether the Government will introduce a climate change Bill. The Taoiseach says it will do so if it decides to. I know that, but what is the Government's position? Are we to have a climate change Bill or are we not?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It does not come under the remit of these questions. The Taoiseach will be as helpful as he can be.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I made it clear the Government has yet to consider such a Bill. I cannot give a commitment to introduce a Bill until I have seen it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is the Taoiseach confirming that no memorandum has yet been presented to the Government on this matter?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He cannot confirm anything like that because, as he has already explained, only the Cabinet is privy to that.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

He did earlier. He said-----

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is no room for mystery in this regard. The situation is that it is open for any Minister to bring any initiative to Cabinet. No such initiative has been brought for consideration by Cabinet at this point.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I call Deputy Kenny.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want-----

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Gilmore has now had three bites at the same cherry and they are not in order.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a very large cherry.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There cannot be much of it left.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A Cabinet Minister has gone on public record to say there will be a climate change Bill before the end of the year.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy would want to ask him about it.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Head of the Government now tells us that no proposal to bring a climate change Bill has appeared before the Government.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy will have to ask the line Minister about it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Following the discussion at the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security, is it the Taoiseach's view that Ireland will reach its target of a 3% reduction in emissions this year? The absent Green Minister has been talking about introducing legislation, to which Deputies Gilmore and Barrett referred. Is it the view of the Taoiseach and the sub-committee that the country will reach its target of a 3% reduction this year?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is a matter for the line Minister.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If so, how much of that is due to the recession as distinct from the actions of Government?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Members will have to come to the House for the Minister's questioning.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a valid question.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It would be if it concerned these questions but it is beyond their remit. That question must be directed to the line Minister. I must move on.