Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach his plans, in view of the cutbacks being imposed within the Defence Forces, to restrict the use of Air Corps aircraft by Ministers, particularly for travel within Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17774/09]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to change the regulations governing the use by Ministers of Air Corps aircraft in view of the cutbacks in public spending; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22278/09]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together. Air Corps aircraft are only used by Ministers where I consider it appropriate. This has always been the case during my time as Taoiseach and the position has not changed. Procedurally, requests for use of the service are made by Ministers' private secretaries to my office and are dealt with, in the first instance, by the staff of my office. Requests are examined by my staff with regard to the need for and purpose of travel, the destination and other logistical details. Any necessary clarification or further information is sought at this point. All screened requests are then submitted to me for my consideration and approval, if deemed appropriate. Once approved, all operational matters are settled directly between the office of the Minister in question and the Department of Defence or Air Corps.

No changes are proposed in the procedures for the use of the ministerial air transport service. All applications for use of such services are considered in the context of costs and efficiencies.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Given the cuts taking place all over the public service, and specifically the cuts in the Department of Defence including the closure of Army barracks, is there any cutback in the use of air travel by Ministers within the country? Has the Taoiseach issued new guidelines in that regard? Can he inform the House of the number of times in the past year that Air Corps aircraft have been used by Ministers travelling within the country?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to come back to Deputy Gilmore with that information, I do not have it to hand. The service is used sparingly, as required. I outlined the procedure in my primary reply. I have had to say "No" on occasion.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The cost of the ministerial use of the three planes, the Gulfstream, the Learjet and the Beechcraft, between 2006 and November 2008 amounted to some €9 million. This included a failed mission to Texas at a cost of €164,000. If the two Ministers involved had flown on a commercial flight it would have cost between €1,000 and €1,500 to fly business class.

Deputy Gilmore pointed out that military helicopters have been used on a regular basis by Ministers for internal travel. This racked up over 52.5 hours of travel and cost the taxpayer over €116,000 in 2008. The door fell off a helicopter in an infamous circling of Killarney golf club.

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, who is not present and is never here-----

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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He is doing his job.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----even though it is national bike week-----

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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He cycled in today as well.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----said that most in Government are coming to the realisation that we can save money and that from speaking to other Ministers he knew that money could be saved by using commercial airlines. What has been the cost on commercial airlines as opposed to jet travel?

I remember flying in the Beechcraft over 12 years ago. I understand it is grounded because of old age, leaving just the Learjet and the Gulfstream.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Like all of us.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Kenny should be careful what he says.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Ceann Comhairle was in it in his days as a Minister. The Gulfstream was out of commission for several months last year, due to essential maintenance and refurbishment that cost €1.8 million in the US. Three weeks after that it had to have further treatment and maintenance because of technical difficulties. What was the cost of the second operation on the Gulfstream? The cost of scheduled maintenance for the jet in 2009 is €2 million. It appears that a jet that is 17 years old costs more to maintain than when it is flying its passengers. Has the Taoiseach considered disposing of the craft if it is more feasible for Ministers to fly commercial airlines? We will not have the Presidency of the European Union for a number of years. The requirements of Ministers in these straightened economic times might be more feasible if they flew by commercial flights. Has the Taoiseach considered this?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind Members that statistical questions must be tabled because it is impossible for the Taoiseach to have answers to statistical questions when the initial questions are general.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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These are matters that must be dealt with by the Minister for Defence. I do not have information that goes beyond the remit of the original question. One must be mindful of the costs involved in conducting Government business and that is done. It is not possible for any Government in modern times to do its business without the availability of its own craft. The idea that we should be unique in that respect by not having one is incorrect. It sends a nice populist message but does not increase the efficiency of Government business in terms of the demands on officeholders. They must be doing business at home and abroad. The Gulfstream is the longest serving of its type. It requires maintenance because we decided not to buy a replacement. It is important that it is safely used.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach consider it appropriate that officeholders are using Air Corps helicopters to go to provincial football finals? At the Connacht final last year I saw a Government helicopter arriving. The State car went around the back and brought the person in to attend a football match. I heard the hissing and booing and people giving out that this was their money. The Taoiseach should send out a directive to Ministers, the President and everybody in this country that they should not be using helicopters for Connacht, Munster or Leinster football finals. We cannot afford it any longer.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe they were used specifically for that purpose. If a person was on official business that Sunday-----

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Connacht final was not official business. Or was it?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not suggesting it was but if Deputy Ring will listen to what I say he might have an understanding of my point of view. If people are on official business in the morning and the helicopter is returning to base and someone wants to be dropped off at a match I do not see that as outrageous. If people are using the helicopter for official business and it is going back to base people can be dropped home unless we insist that people return to the base and wait for a car to bring them back home. We can get quite petty about it.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Going to a football match in Castlebar on the third Sunday in July is not official business and the Taoiseach should condemn it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have not suggested it is official business. Helicopters are only used when Ministers are on official business but a person may be dropped off as the helicopter is returning to base.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On occasions there may be justification for use of these aircraft. What is galling is when the junior partner in Government, in the personage of Deputy John Gormley, who is the leader of the Green Party and who is given to flights of fancy-----

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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He is trotting after Deputy Ó Caoláin. 11 o'clock

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----indicated that the Green Party Ministers do not use the Government jets. It was a clear, blunt statement in response to a question. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, indicated in response to a parliamentary question in March that he had used the Government jet on at least two occasions. I am not questioning his use of it and I have no doubt he would use it only if appropriate. It is not appropriate to make the claim that as a rule, one party in Government does not use the Government jet at all despite facts contradicting this.

In putting forward proposals to Cabinet for restricted use of the Government jet or jets, would the Taoiseach be good enough to ensure there is an acceptance of this in all parties currently making up the Government?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is available for official business and we all have a view to use it to the minimum requirement. There are times when it is essential to doing business. That applies to all Ministers and all of us seek to utilise these facilities bearing in mind the taxpayer and the need to do one's job.