Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if his Department has, following a meeting of the Joint Committee on Education and Science on 9 April 2009, been in contact with a person (details supplied), to discuss his proposals, made on a number of occasions but most recently at an education conference in Kilmainham in 2008, that he, as patron, wished to divest himself and his archdiocese of the patronage of a number of primary schools; if senior officials in his Department charged with the planning of education provision and school buildings have had discussions or meetings with representatives of the archdiocese; if not, if he proposes to initiate such meetings with a view to ensuring an orderly changeover of patrons that causes minimum disruption for all concerned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19409/09]

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Senior officials of my Department met with the patron in question in late 2007 to discuss statements he had made on the patronage of primary schools. At that meeting, the patron indicated that he had no specific locations in mind where one or more schools under his patronage might transfer to another patron but that it might arise at some point in the future. They discussed the different issues that might arise, the need for such changes to be planned and managed and the desirability in individual school cases of consultation with all stakeholders - parents, teachers and local communities. It was agreed that the patron would contact the Department at an early stage in any case where the patron was considering the feasibility of such a transfer.

The forward planning section of my Department is currently examining demographic trends throughout the country with a view to establishing education accommodation needs at a local level. As part of this examination, my Department will be consulting directly with all existing patrons about specific areas where the establishment of new schools will be required and how emerging demands in these areas will be addressed. In this context, my Department has written to representatives of the patron in question on 27 March and, as part of the follow-up to this process, it intends seeking details of any schools where a change of patronage might potentially be relevant.

In tandem with this, a review of the procedures for the establishment of new primary schools is being undertaken by the Commission on School Accommodation. A technical working group, under the direction of the chairman of the commission, has been established for this purpose. The working group has commenced its work and it is expected that it will be completed and recommendations made to me before the end of the year. Among the issues being considered by the working group is the issue of patronage, including the criteria that must be met to become a patron and the circumstances where changes to patronage may be warranted. The working group will also consider the general approach to maximising the use of existing spare capacity where this arises, including possible changes to patronage.

The approach being adopted by my Department and the Commission on School Accommodation will ensure any changes to current patronage arrangements will well planned and managed in a manner that will accommodate the interests of parents, teachers and local communities and that they will also contribute to an inclusive education system. As part of this process, if further meetings with the patron in question are needed to discuss or clarify any general issues relating to the change of patronage, they will be arranged.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I appreciate the reply and I am pleased that departmental officials have been in contact with the patron. Is it fair to extrapolate from the Minister's comments that in the other 19 or 20 dioceses a similar pressure is being exerted on the patron? If I understand the matter correctly, the Department will not contact all existing patrons. Some 93% of primary schools are under the patronage of the Roman Catholic Church. Has the Minister initiated formal contact with existing schools? Part of the problem with over-demand relates to existing schools rather than the provision of new schools. I have another supplementary question, but is it now the policy of the Department, through Mr. Murray's commission, to contact all patrons of all denominations to establish if they are intent on keeping patronage of existing schools or whether they intend divesting patronage in some areas? If so, what orderly transfer will take place and what will the replacement process involve?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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There may be a misunderstanding. As the Deputy is aware, I put in place a moratorium soon after taking office in respect of existing schools and the patronage of new schools.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It applied to new schools.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, to new schools. As part of the moratorium, we stated that where new schools were required, the technical group working at my Department would proceed because the school population is growing. It was agreed that the group would contact all patrons. For 2009 we are able to accommodate all requirements by adding extensions to schools and so on. In 2010 and 2011 there will be a serious influx of pupils into these schools and we must provide new schools. I have arranged for the commission to make contact with the various patrons indicating where we envisage a need for new schools and where existing schools will not be able to accommodate the increase. They were contacted on 29 March and we are awaiting responses in respect of the development of these new schools.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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On a related matter concerning patronage, has the Minister considered the application from Educate Together, lodged with the Department in December 2007, to become a recognised patron not only of primary schools, of which it has responsibility for more than 53, but also at secondary school level?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will understand there is difference between primary and second level in terms of patronage. I have sought legal advice to establish exactly which powers are available to me under the Education Acts.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I assure the Minister he has a clear hand.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not certain of that yet; we hope the legal information will be with us within a short period. However, there is a serious difference in terms of the scale of development. It is very easy to build a primary school, but for a second level school one must consider the scale of the development, the range of the curriculum and subject choice. A given second level school must have an inclusive curriculum and I must be satisfied in the first instance that there are not enough places in existing schools. I could hardly be expected in these strained financial times to build new schools where there is spare capacity. I will take all relevant matters into account in respect of any future development.

The answer to whether I have finally decided on the application of Educate Together in respect of second level patronage is no. I still await legal advice. When I receive that advice, I will examine the two applications before me, one of which is from Lucan and the other from Waterford city. I will examine them to establish if they stand on merit and whether new patronage is warranted. The Deputy will understand that the non-denominational dimension is covered at second level under the new VEC, vocational education committee, community college model.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Leanfaimid ar aghaidh go dtí Ceist Uimh. 3. Níl an Teachta Feighan i láthair. Leanfaimid ar aghaidh to dtí Ceist Uimh. 4 in ainm an Teachta Brian Hayes.

Question No. 3 lapsed.