Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Question 8: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if she is satisfied that 44% of the people referred to FÁS between the period January and October 2008 remain on the live register; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9172/09]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Under the national employment action plan, NEAP, all people between the ages of 18 and 65 years who are approaching three months on the live register are identified by the Department of Social and Family Affairs and referred to FÁS for interview with a view to assisting them enter or re-enter the labour market. The NEAP process is a key element in addressing the progression needs of those on the live register. The plan was introduced in 1998 and implemented on a phased basis using various age and duration thresholds.

Each month, a statistical report published by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is produced outlining the main outcomes for those who have been referred since the beginning of the year. Information on outcomes is based primarily on FÁS caseload records of interactions with those interviewed. This is supplemented by information on reasons for leaving the live register, given by individuals to my own Department, where this information has not been communicated directly to FÁS by the individuals concerned.

The figures referred to are taken from the NEAP monthly progress report for November 2008. The report covers all referrals for the period January to October 2008 and is based on known outcomes as at the end of November 2008. Of those referred in that period, 56% had left the live register by the end of November 2008. Data relating to years 2000 to 2007 is contained in the Department's annual statistical report and the figure of 56% for 2008 compares favourably with the rates of previous years, particularly given the current economic climate.

People remain on the live register while engaged with FÁS under the action plan until they take up offers of employment or training. If they do not attend for interview with FÁS or, having engaged with FÁS, decline offers of employment or training, their cases are referred back to the social welfare local office for review to determine if they continue to satisfy the conditions for receipt of unemployment payments. People who for valid reasons are unable to avail of the opportunities for placement in employment, training or education provided by FÁS continue to receive payment. In such cases, the Department's facilitator service is available to assist them in identifying barriers to participation and exploring alternative progression routes.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I doubt that the 60 people in the facilitator service can deal with the level of unemployment we currently have. People must sign off social welfare when they go on FÁS courses and the 44% of people who do not manage to get employment from the courses must then sign back on.

I have heard from many people working within both FÁS and the Department of Social and Family Affairs that this must be changed. A person gets the same payment while on the FÁS course as on jobseeker's allowance, and there is an extra payment for child care that can still be paid by FÁS. Some of the FÁS courses are three, four or five weeks long and people must go through the entire process of signing off and getting the payment from FÁS. When the person is finished the FÁS course, he or she must go back to the Department's staff — who are inundated as it is — and go through the process of signing back on.

I am not sure how many people within the Department are allocated to that process but it is a sizable number. I know of a pilot project near my locality, although I am not sure it was official, where FÁS was in communication with the Department. Two out of three local social welfare offices agreed that the people involved could stay signing on. This eliminated all the paperwork that was taking up staff time and which makes people consider if it is worth doing a FÁS course because a process will have to be gone through and the person may have to wait for a payment at the end. Some people are not willing to take that chance. Will the Minister examine the issue and see if the practice could be changed?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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We are looking at all cases to see how we can streamline processes. I mentioned earlier people going from jobseeker's allowance to jobseeker's benefit looking for information and this would fall into that category, as people may go to FÁS and come back. Another example is where people working in the education sector contact social welfare offices during mid-term break and holiday periods. They would not be in receipt of social welfare benefit when working, whether engaged in filing or other jobs but we need to examine if a way can found to streamline the process in terms of people being paid, given the heavy burden of work on staff in local social welfare offices.

On the question of the referral of people for courses, Deputy Enright mentioned the similar benefit rates people are paid but the different additional benefits they receive. There is a need to streamline the rates payable to people participating in different education courses that come under the remit of different Departments. Two people may be doing the same course, one under the VTOS and the other under the back to education scheme and one or other of those scheme may include a travel allowance, food allowance or child allowances. These are the types of issues we are examining.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will allow some brief supplementary questions. I call Deputy Shortall.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I am concerned that there is a considerable overlap among the different employment services. Does the Minister accept that there is a strong argument for bringing FÁS employment services under the remit of her Department and having one coherent service to ensure people need not wonder whether they should go to the local LES or FÁS office or deal with the job facilitators in the Department of Social and Family Affairs? There seems to be a scattergun approach to this area, which means many people are falling through the cracks. Has the Minister given any consideration to streamlining this process?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Some would say that the some of the FÁS training courses should come under the remit of the Department of Education and Science.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Yes.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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These turf war arguments go on between Departments, but the important point is that there is good co-operation among them, whether it be through the partnerships or through the LES. The Deputy is correct in saying that a myriad of bodies provide such services. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs has a responsibility for a number of them as well. There is good co-operation among the various groups and it is important that continues.

FÁS has upped its game significantly in terms of the number of people who are now being called. We need to recognise that. Thousands of additional places have been created this year to ensure that people are called after the three month period and that as many people as possible are facilitated. Some 60,260 were referred last year and of those 40,000 were interviewed but the other 20,000 disappeared off the live register. The calling of people for interview is a good control element in that it can be established if a person got a job the previous week or whatever.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I want to facilitate the Deputies. I call Deputy Morgan.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with the Minister and with Deputy Enright. Reform is needed in this area. I do not want to miss the opportunity presented to ask the Minister to impress upon her colleague, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment that FÁS clearly needs freshening up. It does some great work and the bad news coverage of the bad practices in the organisation was unfortunate. Does the Minister agree that FÁS should liaise with some enterprise development groups to facilitate discussion to encourage and help the many people who want to return to work and to create their own jobs to do so?

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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There are 60 facilitators, one for every 7,500 people unemployed. What do they do that is different from what the FÁS employment service does?

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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A large number of people will leave school this year and there will not be jobs for them. Does the Minister accept there is a strong case for ensuring that people cannot go from school on to the dole and that they will progress directly from school into a training course? This issue will arise on a large scale this year and in the coming years. That is the critical time to catch people to prevent them falling into unemployment and dependency on perhaps a long-term basis. Has the Minister given any consideration to providing that type of course for school leavers to enable them to improve their chances of getting employment in the future?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Three issues were raised. In reply to Deputy Morgan's question on FÁS training courses, new initiatives were taken to ensure that training is available in the installation of green energy projects, etc. New courses are being offered. The more people who are able to move off the live register and into training the better. Such upskilling of people who have lost their jobs in the construction industry will allow them to avail of new opportunities. That is one example of a new initiative which can work well.

On the question of the difference between the facilitators and the FÁS employment service, the facilitators take a broader approach in that they will also identify whether a literacy course, a course under a back to education scheme or under back to work scheme is the most appropriate. They do not only have an employment perspective, they examine the education and training needs of the person concerned and work individually with the person. That is useful also.

Deputy Shortall asked about 18 year olds coming onto the live register. It is interesting that even in the good times — I know this from visiting social welfare offices throughout the country — some people still walk into the social welfare office on their 18th birthday to sign on. There is this form of generational unemployment and if it continued during the good times, one can only imagine how bad it will get when jobs are more scarce.

Two pilot projects have been introduced in Letterkenny and Coolock, which appear to be working well and which I would be anxious to extend. Such projects would ensure that 18 to 20 year olds who come in to sign on will be immediately put on a training course rather than be in receipt of social welfare benefit. I would like to see more of that. It is a bad idea to hand €204.30 per week to 18 year olds. I would rather see them get the benefit of education and training, and I am happy to——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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We need to move beyond pilot schemes at this stage. A national scheme is needed.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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This would be a major shift in policy which I would be happy to implement. It has been the policy that whether one is 18 years old with no work record or 50 years old with a 30 years' work record, one can sign on and get €204.30 a week. This would be a significant change. I share the Deputy's views that it would be far better to have the 18 to 20 year olds involved in education and training and given an allowance, which refers to that, rather than giving them something which could lead to them becoming unemployed and dependent at a very early age. The projects appear to be working quite well. We will learn from them and I would be happy to extend them as quickly as possible.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Will the Minister extend it this year?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That is my intention.