Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad to have the opportunity to report to the House on the outcome of the Deloitte review of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. I commissioned the review in mid-2008 to assist me in deciding on the funding to be allocated to the two State bus companies and to provide reassurance to the Government and the taxpayer that both companies are operating efficiently and effectively.

The two companies receive significant capital and current funding from the Exchequer as compensation for the additional cost of providing loss-making but socially and economically necessary services. Since 2002, we have invested more than €230 million in capital funding in replacement buses, additional buses and other facilities. Over the same period, a total of over €660 million has been paid towards operational costs. The two companies will receive more than €125 million in current funding support in 2009 and it is, therefore, important that we are satisfied this funding is being used efficiently and effectively.

Since I commissioned the report, the financial positions of both companies have deteriorated significantly. While both companies were in profit up to 2007, they now face major challenges to restore their finances in the face of declining passenger numbers. Despite an increase in the Exchequer subvention to €313 million and a fare increase of 10%, the CIE Group is facing a projected operating loss in 2009 of up to €100 million. In response, the companies are now considering a range of measures to reduce costs and have set out plans to address these difficulties. It is imperative that both are restored to a good operational and sound financial condition as quickly as possible, and the Deloitte report should be seen as a supporting measure in this regard.

Before dealing with the report itself I wish to set it in the context of my overall approach to the strengthening of bus services. This comprises the transformation of bus services as set out in Smarter Travel, the new transport policy framework launched on 5 February; a move, as provided for in the Dublin Transport Authority Act, to public service contracts for the provision of funding for loss-making services; the reform of the Road Transport Act 1932 with regard to bus licensing; a continuing high level of funding for public service obligation, PSO, services and the introduction of a framework to facilitate the subvention of private bus operators; and ongoing investment in bus priority and traffic management measures to improve bus flow.

This report is timely given the challenges facing the two companies and will assist them in developing and implementing their cost recovery plans. It is also timely in view of the ambitious transformation agenda for bus services set out in Smarter Travel. The report dovetails with the vision set out in the new transport policy framework for a more comprehensive, reliable and customer-focused bus service. Together with the move to public service contracts, this report provides a good basis for Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann to pursue the transformation programme set out in Smarter Travel. The fundamental challenge we face is to provide services that are more attractive and better aligned with the needs of the public at a lower cost.

The report by the Deloitte-led consortium reaches a number of key conclusions. With regard to the effectiveness of bus networks, it finds that the Dublin Bus network has not been realigned for a number of years and, as a result, has become overly complex, with a significant amount of service duplication. It concludes that there is an opportunity, through complete network redesign, to create a simplified network offering improved services with improved cost efficiency. The consultants undertook a review of one corridor in Dublin and on the basis of a conceptual redesign identified potential operational savings of approximately €2 million on that corridor alone. A review of the other corridors on the same basis would also be likely to deliver significant efficiency gains. The report concludes that the current fleet size in Dublin Bus is adequate to service current demand and that the need for fleet expansion should be reviewed in light of changes in demand and improvements in efficiency. This conclusion reflects the growth in the capacity of the fleet in recent years. Since 2000 the capacity of the fleet — seated and standing — has grown by more than 35%, yet passenger numbers are falling. With regard to operational efficiency, the report concludes that in the case of Dublin Bus there is scope to adjust scheduling, in the interests of improved customer service, through changes in the timetable, in the practice of "out of service" running, and in the operation of routes to garages without apparent customer demand.

At the risk of over-distilling the report, the headline recommendations are that bus services in Dublin be improved through redesign of the network to provide a similar or better level of service at a lower cost, principally by simplifying the network, eliminating duplication of services, creating even headways, providing additional direct routes into and out of the city and to key employment centres, improving scheduling effectiveness and improving bus priority. The Deloitte report recommendations will not by themselves be sufficient to ensure the bus plays its full part in providing a sustainable transport system. Action on three other fronts — reform of the bus licensing regime, the implementation of contracts for PSO services and increased bus priority — is also required. Progress is being made in all these areas. Government has approved the drafting of a Public Transport Regulation Bill to replace the Road Transport Act 1932. Work is under way on the drafting of PSO contracts for the CIE companies, and significant investment is being made in traffic management measures, including bus priority.

Overall the Deloitte report sets out a series of measures which are designed to enhance the role of buses and to make the CIE bus companies more customer focused. The report sets out the kind of reform that I want to see in Dublin Bus. I want a simple efficient bus network that serves more customers more efficiently, easy to understand routes and timetables, improved reliability and reduced bunching of buses, additional direct routes serving the city and major employment and retail centres and better co-ordination of services through the elimination of unnecessary duplication.

I am not interested in cutting bus passenger numbers or making life difficult for bus users. The bus is and should remain the backbone of public transport in Dublin for the foreseeable future but we need major bus reform and this report sets out how that can happen. People are looking for a fast, efficient and reliable bus service so that they can leave their cars at home. Public transport usage along routes provided with good quality bus corridors has increased by 40% over the period under discussion. If people know when a bus will arrive and the time required to travel to their destinations, they will use public transport.

The report clearly shows that we can grow bus passenger numbers by deploying buses where and when people need them. It also supports the actions being taken by both companies to turn around their unsustainable financial positions. I have asked the companies to present their plans for the implementation of the recommendations in the report and I expect to receive these shortly. I look forward to the support of all parties in the implementation of these recommendations.

In conclusion, I welcome the engagement by management and unions with the Labour Relations Commission. It is important that they discuss their difficulties around a table in order to make progress together.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Deloitte report is excellent in many ways. It identifies the key needs of consumers and taxpayers and points out the failure of Dublin Bus in particular to provide a 21st century service. Reliability and efficiency are critical to bus travel. A dynamic and modern service is needed for the 21st century, as is a commitment to change in the management of traffic in the capital city. Quality bus corridors must be developed without breaks because otherwise they cannot be effective. We also need to address the city's congestion points.

More important, after 20 years of Fianna Fáil-led Governments, we need a change in thinking and policies in the Department of Transport. Ten years ago the Department of the Taoiseach published a document on reforming the bus market in Dublin which clearly set out the need for competition. While Minister for Transport, the late Seamus Brennan proposed to open 25% of the bus market in Dublin to competition and choice. Ten years later, that report continues to gather dust in the Department of Transport and nothing has changed. Notwithstanding the Dublin Transportation Authority Act 2008, we need further legislation to reform the Road Transport Act 1932 if we are to provide for proper competition.

The Deloitte report notes the lack of confidence in bus transport in Dublin, even at the height of the boom. Between 2005 and 2007, the number of bus commuters actually decreased and the speed of buses became progressively slower. A fundamental reappraisal is needed and we need to go beyond the glossy brochures to make radical changes to the system.

I have met managers of Dublin Bus on a number of occasions and found them to be dedicated and professional. I held at least five meetings in various parts of the city to identify the problems arising with the bus service. Dublin Bus representatives have attended all of these meetings and have promised change. I accept that the management of Dublin Bus is committed to change. Dublin Bus employees also attended the meetings, including in some cases drivers who were facing the prospect of unemployment. I acknowledge the professionalism of the workers at Dublin Bus. During the boom years, many people went to work for Dublin Bus and a considerable number of committed and dedicated people were concerned about losing their jobs. I will not pursue that matter further while negotiations are ongoing with the Labour Relations Commission, other than to say I hope a successful conclusion is reached which allows the 290 staff in question to continue working at Dublin Bus and avoids the proposed mothballing of 120 buses.

We need to change everything in terms of bus transport. I ask the Minister to circulate the document prepared by the Dublin Transportation Office outlining the parts of the greater Dublin area which lack access to bus transport. The Joint Committee on Transport should meet with Dublin Bus and private transport providers to ask them how they will go about providing proper bus services for people in these areas. Other than school bus services, no opportunity is being given to private contractors in this city. They have suitable buses but these are not being used. It is clear in regard to those contractors who were given licences that Dublin Bus abused its privileged position to put them out of business. That has been proven by various documents. Dublin Bus and the Department of Transport need to be more dynamic. The transport committee can make a real contribution in this regard. Committees of these Houses are often regarded as talking shops but by bringing together all the important players with the Minister we could make progress on these issues.

People coming into the city face a shortage of park and ride facilities. Every day of the week, thousands of people drive into Dublin from rural areas because they have no access to public transport. They do not even have the option of switching to a bus on the outskirts of the city. Park and ride facilities must be provided at strategic locations across the greater Dublin area. I am aware that the county managers of Kildare, Meath, Wicklow and Louth are considering this issue but we need to push it. I am not aware of any official in the Department of Transport who takes responsibility for park and ride facilities but somebody needs to be put in charge of the matter.

A lengthy process must be followed before a quality bus corridor can be established. The Minister has proposed to assign a person to examine route proposals and hold public hearings on them before decisions are made. We must make it simple to establish a corridor even if that requires fast tracking the decision-making process.

The Deloitte report identified the need for changes to operational practices within Dublin Bus. The report, under the heading summary recommendations on page 21 states:

The above programme of work represents fundamental change for the company. It should be treated as a major change and transformation programme.

That is what is needed now. This is part of the way forward. It is only through working together that we, Members of the Oireachtas, including Ministers and officials from the Department of Transport, in putting pressure on the unions and management of Dublin Bus will ensure that change will be achieved.

The report states that €2 million can be saved through the reorganisation of bus routes in Finglas. Obviously, changes in work practices will also be required. Given there are on average 14 major routes a great deal more money could be saved. While a saving of €2 million might not be possible on all routes, it is possible to achieve savings of at least €20 million through the reorganisation of these routes. We can no longer allow a situation whereby buses are out of service. Some 20% of the time there is no one on our buses but the driver, which makes no sense. It is a nonsense and a complete and utter waste of resources. We need to re-examine work practices and to ensure this is not allowed to continue. While bus drivers have rights — I support them 100% — they should not use an out of service bus when going for their coffee break or whatever. They should use their car or other means to do so. That is a fundamental issue.

Perhaps the Acting Chairman would indicate at this stage how much time I have left.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has five minutes remaining.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I am just getting into my stride on this issue.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Let us not interrupt the Deputy.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Facilitation of the use of out of service vehicles by bus drivers when on a break must be eliminated. The bunching of buses, whereby when one is waiting for a bus up to three come together, was mentioned yesterday. This issue can be addressed by Dublin Bus ensuring that buses run at 20 or 30 minute intervals. This practice is an absolute waste of resources which frustrates everybody in the process. We must create confidence in bus services.

I recently visited Nantes in France and studied the transport system there. I was so impressed by it that I went back for a second look. The transport system there is totally integrated. It was stated a couple of years ago in The Times magazine that the best quality of life was to be found in Nantes. The reason for this is its integrated public transport system. Key to that is the provision of a modern bus system. The decision was taken in Nantes to halve the volume of traffic coming into the city. They did this by providing two-lane rather than four-lane highways and a quality bus corridor which receives priority and is served by modern buses which have Internet access. This allows people travelling to work in the centre of the city to work while on the bus. We need to think outside the box and to encourage more people to use buses.

Traffic congestion is an issue for us. Let us make more exciting and more rewarding people's experience of travel by bus. I believe we should be fast-tracking issues such as Internet access which make travel by bus worthwhile. People will be encouraged to use buses if perhaps they can send e-mails while travelling to work, be assured they will reach their destinations on time and will not have to sit for hours in traffic.

It is almost 12 years since I was first elected to Seanad Éireann. While previously I could get from home to Leinster House within an hour, it now takes me almost an hour and a half or an hour and three-quarters to get here. This has changed in recent weeks as a result of the recession. While An Taisce is to be congratulated on its Green Schools project, traffic flows much more freely when the schools are closed. I accept our climate does not always facilitate children walking to school. However, we need to fast-track schools' initiatives in regard to transport. We should insist that schools put in place transport plans which could be reviewed by the Department of Transport. Issues such as how to organise school time in the context of what does and does not work could be considered. Unless changes are made, everything will remain the same.

Currently, the taxpayer is paying for everything and there is a monopoly in Dublin in terms of bus transport. At the height of the boom, people chose to travel by car rather than bus, which did not add up. Perhaps the Acting Chairman would again indicate how much time I have remaining.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has two minutes remaining.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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In summary, Fine Gael has made its position clear. We want a dynamic bus service in Dublin; we want competition and we want Dublin Bus to request, as it does in respect of school transport, assistance in regard to new routes and so on from private service providers. Dublin Bus has said that this is a matter for the new Dublin Transport Authority. It is not a matter for that body but for Dublin Bus. While I acknowledge fully the professionalism and commitment of Dublin Bus, the current system is not working. It does not appear as though Dublin Bus wants to grasp this nettle. However, unless and until they do, the current situation, with which nobody is happy, will continue.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Perhaps the Acting Chairman will let me know when I have two minutes remaining.

I welcome that time has been provided to discuss this report given the critical impact it will have on bus services across Ireland and the current massive crisis occurring in the public transport sector due to the looming threat to take more than 300 buses off the road with the loss of approximately 600 jobs at Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann.

As a bus user and public representative, representing thousands of bus passengers, drivers and other public transport workers, I have always strongly promoted bus services that are efficient, safe for passengers and workers, cheap, passenger focused and provide a world class service. However, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, and his Green Party colleagues have been disgracefully disingenuous in many of their public comments on the Deloitte report and have plainly decided to use this new report as a stick with which to beat Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann.

What is worse is that they are also attempting to use the Deloitte report as a smokescreen to cover up their appalling record on funding, maintaining and protecting public transport facilities. While Deloitte has provided an interesting analysis of potential changes to Dublin Bus, the critical issue is that the Fianna Fáil-Green Government is intent on overseeing a massive programme of cutbacks to bus services across Ireland.

The scale of the cutbacks currently proposed for Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann represent an unprecedented attack on public transport services and structures. Bus Éireann has announced that approximately 300 jobs will be lost and 150 buses will be cut from its fleet. It has now been confirmed that key services to be withdrawn include routes from Galway to Tralee, Galway to Lennane and Athlone to Cork. There will also be a reduction in services on the Dublin to Ardcath, Kilkee to Ennis, Kildysert to Shannon and Tuam to Athlone routes, a reduction in euro-line services between Rosslare and Cork-Waterford and London and Sligo and a reduction in the Lough Derg district service, the Sligo town service and the Sligo-Dublin to Drumsna service.

At a meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport last week the CEO of Bus Éireann, Mr. Tim Hayes, told members that the axing of 150 buses includes the loss of 25 buses in Dublin, 30 in Cork, 15 in Waterford, four in Tralee, 15 in Galway, three in Athlone, four in Sligo, one in Ballina and 12 in Dundalk. At least 120 buses are to be removed from the Dublin Bus fleet with a loss of 290 jobs. In a briefing by Dublin Bus last week, it was confirmed that the cross city No. 172 route will be completely axed and that the 56A which runs from the city centre to Tallaght will also be cut. It is planned that this service will now run between Crumlin and Tallaght only.

Bus frequencies will also rise from on average every ten to 15 minutes to on average every 12 to 17 minutes. Dublin Bus stated that the full programme of cuts has not yet been finalised and that there will be further revisions to bus services and frequencies in the greater Dublin area in the coming months. However, further details are emerging on the impact of other specific routes throughout the Dublin Bus network, which starkly highlights the savage nature of the programme of public transport cutbacks. It has been reported that routes 1, 2, 3, 19, 13, 13A, 7, 11, 11A, 45, 121 and 122 may have services cut by up to 10%. Dozens of peak time eurobuses may also be withdrawn from the Harristown, Phibsboro, Conyngham Road, Summerhill and Clontarf garages. These buses provide a critical backup service on routes throughout the city during morning and evening rush hours.

Heavily patronised commuter routes such as the 51, 51D, 49, 15, 65 and 77 routes may now have reduced frequencies at peak times. When the series of cutbacks was first announced, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, promised to protect peak time services as a matter of priority. However, the withdrawal of eurobus services is at odds with the Minister's worthless commitment earlier on to protect commuters and workers who rely on the bus to get to work or school at critical morning and evening peak times.

Last week, on RTE radio residents of Ballyfermot expressed their devastation at the prospect of a reduced bus service. Ballyfermot commuters and workers have no other public transport option, given they have no access to the Luas, the DART or metro services. The same arguments apply for proposed cuts in bus services in the Finglas area, in Ballymun and in Whitehall. Locals in Ballyfermot highlighted how the reduction in some services, for example the 206 route, will leave local seniors, especially, bereft of a reliable and regular bus service.

The nitelink service has also been cancelled from Monday to Thursday and the last weekend nitelink buses will now leave at 3 a.m. instead of 4.30 a.m. as has been the case. This decision will have an especially negative effect on city centre pubs and clubs. The patrons of such venues rely on public transport and these venues are already under severe financial pressure given the current economic circumstances.

One newspaper estimated that as many as 1,000 scheduled journeys will be lost because of the cutbacks. The cutbacks will devastate urban and rural communities throughout Ireland and will disproportionately hammer low income communities and families, senior citizens, children of school-going age and other vulnerable citizens who are totally reliant on the bus service.

The loss of approximately 600 jobs at both companies has had a similarly devastating effect on the community of bus drivers in both companies. My colleague, Deputy Tommy Broughan, has been inundated with calls from young bus men and women who were shocked and shattered to be handed their notice and told they are due to finish up on 28 February. Many of these young workers were only taken on in the past year or two. Many had left other secure employment, because they believed they had a long-term future at Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. Most have described to me and to my colleagues the terror they are experiencing at being unable to pay the mortgage or provide for the family now that they face unemployment in these bleak economic times.

At a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport, Deputy Tommy Broughan asked Mr. Joe Meagher of Dublin Bus and Mr. Tim Hayes of Bus Éireann why a voluntary redundancy scheme had not first been introduced at both companies and why new drivers were still being recruited last year, when it was clear that 2009 would be a very difficult financial year for both companies. A voluntary severance scheme should have been considered.

In essence these cutbacks make no sense socially, economically or environmentally. They go against any efforts to get the economy back on track as they will reduce worker mobility, the attractiveness of the State for investment and the economy's competitiveness. Cutbacks of this magnitude are also totally at odds with national transport, environmental and climate change policies of moving consumers out of cars and into public transport to reduce ever-increasing transport greenhouse gas emissions.

The Labour Party has long recognised the critical role of buses in the Irish public transport system. We have often said that buses remain the workhorse of that system. Even the most optimistic forecasts do not envisage most of the Transport 21 projects coming on stream until after 2014. In a departmental briefing last year, following the 2009 budget, it appeared that metro west, the Lucan Luas and the red and green line Luas link-up projects had been effectively completely abandoned by the Government. There are also ongoing question marks over the Government's commitment to the completion of the Navan rail line, the western rail corridor and the light rail systems for Cork, Galway and Limerick. Now, we are told by the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, that all uncompleted public transport projects, apart from metro north, appear to be under grave threat of extinction. With Transport 21 in disarray, why are the Minister and his Green Party colleagues set on decimating one of our critical remaining networks of public transport services throughout the country, namely, the bus services? It is clear that even if the bulk of Transport 21 is completed, only buses can provide the core public transport services for commuters and workers in the interim period between now and then, that is presuming the programme is ever completed. Buses are the fastest, easiest, cheapest and most sustainable option for getting Dublin and the rest of the country moving and for tackling congestion and car dependence.

The Labour Party developed a land mark bus policy before the last general election, entitled Getting Dublin Moving. The policy has buses at its core. The Labour Party's long-standing policy on bus transport includes immediately adding 500 new buses to the Dublin Bus fleet; developing bus rapid transport services on key routes in Cork city and environs; fast-tracking park and ride facilities and express bus services for Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick; introducing real-time information at bus stops; implementing a €1 adult fare and a 50 cent fare for children in the greater Dublin area; replacing the travel pass with a new freedom card that would provide cheaper fares and more integration for commuters; and maintaining the Bus Éireann national network which services smaller towns and villages throughout Ireland.

The Labour Party has also long campaigned for the enhancement of bus infrastructure throughout the country. There has been some valuable advancement in the quality bus corridor network in Dublin and the green routes bus corridors in Limerick and Cork. However, the Labour Party believes we must go much further in this regard and ensure the completion of the planned Dublin Bus quality corridors network and that the Limerick and Cork green route bus corridors should be given priority. Expansion of the existing 13 quality bus corridors, QBCs, in Dublin must be given effect now to include the additional radial and orbital QBC projects that the quality bus network office has long proposed.

On account of the Labour Party's long-standing commitment to bus transport and given the Minister's ongoing lethargy in implementing key bus policies, such as the reform of the 1932 bus licensing law, I welcome the publication of the Deloitte review of the cost and efficiency of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. Undoubtedly, there are worthy proposals in the review. However, many of these proposals were already in the pipeline and were obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of how the bus network operates. For example, the Labour Party has long advocated the introduction of one of the key proposals in the Deloitte review regarding real-time information systems.

Other valuable suggestions are contained in the document, such as the introduction of a simplified network with more co-ordinated services along core routes, the provision of more direct services to key centres of population, information campaigns by both companies, timetable re-design and the introduction of immediate running times to improve reliability and reduce the potential for the bunching of buses. The report also recommends key new technology systems such as automatic vehicle location, AVL, systems and the linking of AVL information to the traffic light management systems in Dublin, to provide further priority for buses.

The Minister and his predecessors have failed to act on the bus market in general. There have been many threats, promises and announcements of the Minister's intention to act but he has failed to do so. Now, in a cost-cutting exercise he is squeezing the budgets of the two bus companies. He does not seem to recognise that lessons can be learned from every other European capital. The cities that have good public transport systems subvent the costs of the system properly. The Green Party has been preaching this for years yet it will not take on board that lesson in government. The average subvention rate for bus services across Europe is 50%. Our rate is abysmally low. The lesson is clear; it is not possible to provide public transport services on the cheap.

If we want the country to be competitive and facilitate people's movement in an efficient manner and reduce our carbon footprint, the only solution is quality public transport. That is not possible unless the Government funds it adequately. This Minister and his predecessors have unfortunately failed to learn that lesson.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I welcome those joining us on a live feed on Twitter this afternoon.

The Green Party's message is simple: we need radical reform in Dublin Bus. We also need to dispel the myth that there has been a massive cutback in funding to Dublin Bus. The funding increased marginally last year but Dublin Bus faces a crisis of reduced passenger numbers, fewer people working and shopping. To respond to that crisis it needs to reform itself radically and within a matter of months. I am not convinced that senior management in Dublin Bus is moving fast or far enough to make these changes happen.

We all have our stories and sides to those stories about bus services, but there is also a comprehensive 118 page report telling us what needs to happen. I agree with most of its recommendations. John Lynch, the chairman of CIE, needs to give us an implementation plan with timelines for the changes, within a matter of weeks. Bus Éireann is relatively well managed. It runs a tight ship but could respond better to the needs of users, whether in the towns around Cork city or other parts of the country. I am pleased, however, that it has made many strides in recent years to reform its services.

Dublin Bus needs to do more work to meet the needs of the travelling public in the 21st century. Above all, the Dublin Bus brand needs to be renewed to attract more people onto the buses. There was a period during the height of the economic boom when Dublin Bus attracted many new users, such as people from the immigrant population who came here to work, but in recent months buses are carrying fewer people and therefore have less income. There needs to be a transformation. Dublin Bus needs to get more people out of their cars and onto buses and to do that it must offer a reliable, efficient, punctual service.

While much of this must come from Dublin Bus there is also an onus on local authorities. Dublin City Council particularly should provide the bus company with the priority it needs. Limerick city and county councils need to give the political leadership to provide bus priority on those routes. I am saddened that my colleagues in the Fine Gael Party do not allow buses the priority they deserve in Limerick and other cities. Deputies and councillors are not moving fast enough with change.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Deputies are not on councils.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Change is never easy but leadership is needed and the Fine Gael Deputies in the Limerick area have opposed priority for buses in Limerick. I want Fine Gael to support bus priority measures and I want Deputy O'Dowd, as transport spokesperson, to give the priority to buses——

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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That is rubbish.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Leadership starts at the top. Deputy O'Dowd is the transport spokesperson.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have provided it.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I look forward to change coming from him. There is a comprehensive report——

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Cuffe has been sucked so far into Fianna Fáil——

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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If Deputy Cuffe addresses his remarks through the Chair, I will be better able to protect him.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I will speak without interruption.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am protecting the Deputy well.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I would not protect him; he is the Green mudguard.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Traffic signals need to respond to a bus full of people and speed it through the lights. While this is not as easy to do as it might be with a Luas vehicle, Dublin City Council needs to give more priority to buses when it programmes traffic lights.

We also need to put in place physical measures. The bus gate in College Green is not a gate but simply a way to give buses their fair share of road space, by taking cars off the green. It is crazy in 2009 to have four lanes of car traffic going through College Green while buses are stuck behind cars with one occupant. It is crazy that it can take 40 minutes for a bus to get from Parnell Square to Stephen's Green. One will not get on a bus if a short journey takes that long, one will walk or take the car because one can do other business that way. We need leadership from all parties in the Chamber to make that bus gate happen. That is up to the Fine Gael and Labour Deputies and councillors on Dublin City Council.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is up to the Green Members too.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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We also need to make it easier for the bus user to get from A to B and back again. Simple things, such as mapping, need to be transformed. The Dublin Bus map is not the kind one would carry around in one's jacket pocket. It is difficult enough to open the map in the Dáil Chamber so one can imagine what it is like on a windy Friday morning trying to work out how to get from A to B and back. We need pocket-sized maps, such as those issued in London that enable one to work out quickly what bus to get. People do not go to websites or maps to choose their buses, they ask other people. That is a failure on the part of Dublin Bus to communicate the information about how to get from A to B.

Fares need to be simplified and there should be easier ways to use the bus. The Labour Party spokesperson mentioned a €1 fare, or multiples of that, in order that one does not have to wait two or three minutes for people to take change out of their pockets while boarding a bus. The dwell time at Luas stops is 20 seconds. It should be the same for buses. That would speed them up. There should be fewer bus stops, perhaps every 300 or 400 metres instead of every 200 metres.

Electronic ticketing is the real breakthrough that should happen sooner rather than later. In London one can get a purse card free in a tube station. One can top it up and use it on the Underground or on the bus, transferring effortlessly from one to the other. In Dublin one can get a Luas card but it does not work on buses, or a travel 90 card from Dublin Bus, which does not work on the Luas. No wonder people are sticking to their cars and not jumping onto the bus. Dublin Bus will claim it needs the back office support. We have waited 15 years for this to happen. It is not rocket science to give people a card they can use on private or public buses, the Luas or a train. It should happen now, and if it does not happen within the next six months, people should resign or heads should roll. These simple changes — simpler fares, better mapping and ticketing — would transform the bus service. Very few bus shelters in the centre of Dublin have maps. There is a map at every Luas stop. Almost every other form of transport shows one how to get from A to B and back. These changes need to happen soon.

I have talked about the efficiency measures required to transform Dublin Bus, such as moving buses more quickly through College Green. We need better routing that does not go around the world and back again. I would like to straighten the 46A route, which is the pride of the fleet in many respects. The Deloitte report shows how the Finglas routes could be transformed to provide a reliable service to customers. There are unexpected dips in the 46A service when drivers go off duty. Problems arise every week at the same time.

We want buses to go every ten minutes on Saturdays, Fridays or Thursday evenings. We need that kind of reliability. While the company has made many strides over recent years to transform its service, it needs to go the extra mile to get people out of their cars and make them see the Dublin Bus brand as a watchword for reliability. I believe it will do so. Change has to happen at the top. One should be able to set one's watch by the arrival times of buses. Simple mechanisms should be in place to allow people to hop on and off buses using the same bus ticket or card. People want it to be easier to transfer between buses.

The report mentions other improvements that are needed. It suggests that there should be less empty running of buses. I am aware that buses on the 4A and 4B routes run empty between Harristown and Blackrock. Why is the Donnybrook depot not used in some of those cases? While these may seem like simple suggestions, it is not always easy to manage. A little more desk work is required to make things happen to transform the company. Buses have an important role in tacking climate change and traffic congestion. If the right initiative comes from the top in Dublin Bus, we will truly be able to meet the needs of the travelling public of the 21st century.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Doyle has ten minutes.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am used to not having much speaking time. I represent a constituency in the commuter belt. Dublin Bus and the Dublin Transport Authority, when it is fully established, will have responsibility for transport services in part of my constituency. One of the major routes between my constituency and Dublin city centre, the N81, goes through Tallaght, which is in the Acting Chairman's constituency. If there were more bus routes on the N81, we would be able to get more buses to stop in Tallaght.

I was interested to hear Deputy Cuffe's remarks. It sounded like an application for the position of chief executive officer of the Dublin Transport Authority. There was little to argue with in much of what he said about the need to establish an integrated transport system. Fine Gael and the Labour Party might be in control of Dublin City Council, Limerick City Council and other councils, but I am not sure that we are causing all the problems. I cannot say whether that is the case.

The first recommendation in the Deloitte report involves the redesign of Dublin's public transport network on the basis of recent demographics. It is extraordinary that the needs of commuter towns that have recently expanded have not been surveyed for many years. New routes are needed on major commuter arteries to link rural towns and commuter areas. I have raised this issue on many occasions, but I have not received an adequate response. No mechanism is in place to modify the delivery of public services according to population needs in places like County Wicklow. Service reductions have led to the overcrowding of vital commuter buses. We were promised that six-carriage trains would be provided, but there are just four carriages on the trains that are currently in service.

If the Government proceeds with the proposed cuts in buses and drivers and keeps new buses parked up, it will be a taking a minimalist approach to achieving cost efficiencies in Bus Éireann. When I table parliamentary questions on the Government's strategy for delivering bus services to rural towns, I am regularly informed that the Minister does not have official responsibility for sanctioning bus routes. I am told instead that it is an operational matter for Bus Éireann. That is an extraordinary devolution of powers. When a DART arrives into Greystones station, a Dublin Bus commuter bus often pulls out of the station before people have time to get on it. Dublin Bus has told me I should raise this matter with Iarnród Éireann, but I suggest that it is far easier to readjust a bus timetable than a railway service on a single line track, such as that between Dublin and Rosslare. It is impossible to rearrange the schedule, which is tightly organised as things stand. The rescheduling of Dublin Bus services, which should be a simple operational matter, could de done if people were willing to do it. We do not have to wait for the Dublin Transport Authority to be established for such simple problems can be solved.

Other recommendations in the Deloitte report relate to issues like marketing and the simplification of timetables. When I was in a city in Sweden last summer, I was able to understand a map depicting all the bus routes in the city even though I do not understand the Swedish language. The map made everything clear — the bus and tram lines, the service times and the fares. It should be possible to produce a simple tourist card explaining Dublin's public transport system in terms that are easy to understand.

The problem is that the system is not as reliable it should be. The space needed for bus services is congested because too many people prefer to use their cars. People do not use the bus because it is no quicker than a car. It is an example of the chicken and egg problem. If we do not put in place a comprehensive transport management plan for the city and its surrounds, we will not entice people out of their cars and into public transport. If we take buses out of service, we will certainly not transmit the right message.

We need to improve the marketing of public transport services. Mechanisms will have to be put in place to make it much more attractive for people to be in a bus, a tram or a train than in a car. The initial pain that people might suffer will soon ease. European cities of a similar size to Dublin do not have the same levels of traffic congestion. Public transport is used because it is more attractive.

This report is long overdue. My main concern is that representations about the service problems in County Wicklow, which we have known about for many years, are being ignored. Public transport plays a key role in reducing our carbon liabilities. The Minister for Transport needs to make a major financial commitment to public transport, particularly buses. He should be involved in the drawing up of short-term and long-term strategies. We cannot wait for the establishment of the Dublin Transport Authority, even though that will be welcome. I warn the Minister that he needs to work to ensure the authority does not become a "HSE on wheels", as someone has suggested it will be. Officials from the authority should have to attend meetings of the relevant Oireachtas committee more than once a year to make the case for the authority's funding. That case should be based on what the authority has achieved in the preceding six or 12 months and what it will do in the following six or 12 months. Officials from all authorities of this nature should have to regularly justify the continued existence of such bodies.

When an bord snip nua finishes its work, perhaps Mr. McCarthy will recommend that all the State boards that will remain in place after the process of consolidation has been completed should have to undertake the task I have mentioned. Public officials from such authorities should have to a duty to justify their budgets in front of committees established by this House. However, that does not mean more money will have to be spent on Dublin Bus. It means better value for money should be achieved.

It is simple. People have to be held accountable. It is welcome that the Dublin Transport Authority is being established, but it has to be accountable for what it achieves from its budget. Its simple goal should be to get more people out of their cars and into public transport. The amount of time it takes to commute into the city from outside the city, or even within the city, needs to be reduced. That is a simple goal. That should be what we are trying to achieve. Any attempt to blame people will not work. We have to try to work this out. The present scenario does not make sense. Some 90% of people will use public transport if it is attractive to them. When we go on holiday, we use public transport all the time. We do not use cars when we go on holiday to urban areas, as it is not cost effective to bring them with us or to hire them when we are there.

I hope there is an overhaul of public transport services in my constituency as a result of this report. It is important. Commuter towns suffer when people have to get into their cars at 6 a.m. to make it into work by 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. If one is not on the N11 at Kilmacanogue by 6.50 a.m., one might as well wait until 9 a.m. As I have said all I need to say, I will not use the rest of the time that is available to me. Perhaps the Acting Chairman would like me to make representations on behalf of Tallaght.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle reminded me this morning that it is not appropriate to draw the Chair into a discussion on the floor of the House.

Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad this debate is taking place against the background of the deferral of the threatened Dublin Bus dispute. In spite of all the difficulties we have seen, I would not be keen to see the concept of compulsory redundancies brought into any branch of the public service. However, maximum efficiency from limited resources is required, given the current background.

I am happy to contribute to this debate, because I am a regular user of the Nos. 10, 30, 41E, 59 and 92 buses services of Dublin Bus when I am in the city. I usually use them in combination with some other form of transport. I have been an occasional user of Bus Éireann services such as those from Tipperary, Waterford, Wexford, Durrow, Cashel, Sligo, Bundoran, Killarney, Kenmare, Limerick, Listowel, Ennis and Galway. There is a conception that if someone becomes an office holder, he or she never sees public transport for the duration of his or her time in office. I have hardly changed my habits at all since I became a Minister of State, except that I must travel around the country much more now.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The circus must go all around the country.

Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)
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As a public servant, a Member of this House and as a Minister of State, my habit is always to ask myself whether I can do any journey efficiently by public transport. I will only get into the car if the answer is "No" for various practical reasons. This applies equally to journeys between Tipperary and Dublin, journeys within Dublin on sitting days, or attendance at events around the country.

As I use public transport so much, I greatly appreciate the public service provided, and the skill, responsibility, courtesy and friendliness of drivers who improve the quality of environment, the quality of life and choice for all of us. Dublin has a fairly modern bus fleet, which compares well with the fleets in many other cities in other countries. I regard the fares as very reasonable. We finished last night at about 10.45 p.m., following which I took the DART and then took a bus. I paid €1.60 for a three mile journey, where one would normally pay €8 or €10 for a taxi over the same distance. There has been a significant price increase this year of about 10%, but bus fares are still very reasonable value.

There were arguments in other times about the level of subsidy compared to other cities, but everyone must accept that the public finances and the capacity of the taxpayer are very constrained at the moment. We require the best use of limited resources, and it is not tenable to allow an escalation of subsidies at a time when demand is tending to fall.

Buses also provide a social service. During the day, they are mainly occupied by pensioners who travel free of charge who may either not be able to drive for health or other reasons, or who cannot afford to run a car. There are morning and late afternoon concessionary fares for students. Bus Éireann contributes to the mobility that is possible with the free pass, and this covers many parts of the country that are not reached by trains. I would like to see Bus Éireann provide services within our larger towns, and I am thinking particularly of Clonmel in this respect. I appreciate that this might have to wait until better times, but with the growth of towns in the 20,000 to 30,000 population range, it needs to be examined.

We are probably moving towards congestion charges. All forms of tolls, especially those near cities such as the East-Link bridge or the Dublin Port Tunnel, represent a form of such charges. However, there should be concessionary fares for people who use them every day. For ferry services in the west of Scotland, locals often make 20 journeys in one month and they pay a fraction of the cost of a tourist who uses it once or twice.

Frequency, reliability and quality are the particular characteristics of the Luas, and this is an ideal rarely achieved by other forms of public transport, although there are attempts to move in this direction. One could predict how long it takes to get to a particular destination. One does not have to wait for more than a limited period of time, unless it is very early in the morning or very late at night. It is no surprise that the Luas operates without subsidy, in spite of its considerable capital cost. The QBCs, which are largely open to taxis as well, make a very good contribution. They are more developed in Dublin than they are in other cities, although other cities are beginning to adopt them. One of the recommendations of the report is to provide boards which inform passengers when the next bus is arriving.

Leinster House is part of the central administrative district, and it is to be noted how much public transport has improved around here. This is relevant to matters which fall within the responsibility of the OPW and the Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas. How many parking spaces are needed, given the planning permission which requires a restoration of Leinster Lawn? There is a bus stop outside Kildare Street, which is well connected with Heuston Station. If one is going in the other direction, one must go to Dawson Street. There are also buses that stop in Merrion Square, while the Luas is on the other side of St. Stephen's Green. There are rail commuter services from Pearse Station. There is no justification for people working in the House — be they Deputies, Senators, or staff — not to get here some of the time using public transport. For various reasons, all of us need to use cars some of the time.

A final issue is competition and private operators. I have no difficulty with the fact that public transport is primarily a public service, although private operators can supplement and add to that service. I agree with the point opposite on the need to co-ordinate better ticketing and timetables. Once when I went to the famous Galway races from Tipperary I got a train from Ennis, which arrived at 1.25 p.m. and the Bus Éireann bus due to go to Galway at the same time was not scheduled to wait for the train. Luckily the bus was a few minutes late. Better co-ordination would be desirable. Co-ordination is good but the provision of the services and the investment in the services matters. I was struck by the uncomplimentary phrase that we do not want a HSE on wheels, and I know what the Deputy who said that was getting at.

Michael Kennedy (Dublin North, Fianna Fail)
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I very much welcome the opportunity to speak on this report. I am delighted Dublin Bus has postponed the industrial dispute that was to take place on Saturday. This weekend sees one of the city's biggest events; in addition to the Fianna Fáil Árd-Fheis, the Ireland v. England rugby match will bring a considerable number of visitors and tourists. At this stage in our public finances, when this year we will borrow over €18 billion, the public demands and expects us to have efficiencies in all our services. I have no doubt the people who use the bus service are equally seeking that efficiency and high level of service. In Dublin North, one of the fastest growing regions in the country, if not in Europe, those who use the bus want to get to their workplaces in a timely and efficient manner and want to get home in the evening. Any bus service provider, whether Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann or the private operators, must put the customer first. This report highlights that aspect, namely that it is all about giving the customers what they want — a fast, efficient service at a reasonable cost. In the context of the cost to the State, €313 million of Government subvention, the public has a right to demand efficiencies and service.

We need to encourage more people to use public transport. Providing a good bus service is one way we will get people to leave their cars at home. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of a good public bus service and that is one of the reasons I am a bit envious of the Acting Chairman, Deputy O'Connor, who has the Luas service in Tallaght and his south side colleagues who have a very good DART service. We very much look forward to metro north coming out to Swords so Deputy O'Dowd and I can, perhaps, leave our cars on the perimeter of the M1 in Swords and travel in comfort in 20 minutes into town. The public demands that we provide those services and if we fail to deliver an efficient bus service it is guaranteed that people will continue to use their cars. In the long term that is not sustainable.

The fact that this report has highlighted a number of inefficiencies and duplications is indicative. There is duplication in many areas. I noticed a letter in The Irish Times last Saturday week in which a person commented on the fact that five 46A buses from the Dún Laoghaire area were queued up behind each other on Merrion Square. Around 6 p.m. last Sunday I was driving back from St. Vincent's Hospital and on Clare Street there were two 46As. Of the five buses mentioned in the letter, two had a reasonable number of passengers on board and three had no passengers. This is the challenge Dublin Bus has to provide a service that is efficient but not duplicated, particularly when there are growing population areas.

In my area of Dublin North a large number of new estates have no bus service or a less than satisfactory service. There is a challenge for Dublin Bus to tap into that market. It is a concern that Dublin Bus passenger numbers are down for last year. That is very disappointing. I throw out the challenge to Dublin Bus management to examine areas where it has a captive audience and a growing market. All over Dublin North, south Meath, Kildare and Wicklow there are areas where it can tap in and increase its passenger numbers and revenue, which it badly needs. I challenge Dublin Bus to examine the areas of duplication and insufficient service.

The management of Bus Éireann and particularly Dublin Bus have improved but the old political maxim the Acting Chairman and I were used to, "A lot done; more to do", is very relevant. Both companies should examine the areas where the service is not up to scratch because if they provide the service they will get people to use the bus. This report has highlighted many areas of duplication and mentions the Finglas route. I am slightly disappointed it did not pick many other routes. I hope the management of Dublin Bus will look inward and see if five buses could be reduced to two with the supplementation of a Nipper bus service from the different estates in more areas than just Finglas. In my area the concept of providing Nipper bus services to Swords, Skerries, Balbriggan or wherever would encourage people to use Dublin Bus and go to mainline trains and the DART service.

The report talks about bunching, which I mentioned regarding the 46A. Nothing is more frustrating for a passenger. The e-mails and other communications I receive from people when they complain about the service say they see four or five buses coming one after another and then no bus for half an hour or longer. The management must examine that situation and come up with solutions. Providing more buses is not necessarily the answer. The report indicated that fewer buses, if the service is integrated properly, can supply a better service. Dublin Bus can achieve a much better result and give a better service with the existing number of buses. The structures have been improving but I still believe there is much opportunity for the company to bring about new routes and new integration, particularly with the Nipper bus service from the outer estates into the core village areas. Such integration can allow the company to achieve a major increase in passenger numbers and will allow the company to provide the service which its passengers demand.

At a recent meetings of the Joint Committee on Transport I referred to Dublin Bus competing with Luas and other train services. Nobody in his or her right mind will use an unreliable bus service when there is an almost guaranteed journey time with a train, which generally will turn up on time and arrive at its destination on time. This is part of the challenge facing Dublin Bus. It should not be competing where it cannot win but rather where it does not have opposition and where there are the passenger numbers.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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As there are no other speakers offering, I call on the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to make a statement in reply which should not exceed ten minutes.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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This has been an interesting debate judging by the extracts I saw on the monitor. While we may differ on the approach to be taken we are all agreed on the fundamental importance of a good bus service as part of a well functioning public transport system.

This Deloitte report, of itself, will not solve all of the problems. It is an interesting report which, when we get the implementation plans from Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann, will help us considerably in terms of finding a way forward. However, nobody is putting it forward as the one and only solution to all of the problems.

Action is being taken on other fronts. There are three actions which are fundamental to providing a good sustainable service into the future, namely, reform of the bus licensing regime, implementation of PSO contracts and increased bus priority.

We have been speaking for a long time about the need for reform of the bus licensing regime. The existing legislation is rather dated. In the view of many, it is not geared for the challenges of today. The main legislation is the 1932 Act which was amended by the 1958 Act. It is recognised by everyone that if we are to provide a good modern service, the legislative framework needs to be updated and changed. That is happening.

The programme for Government recognised this and outlined a number of priorities. The first of these was a commitment to expedite the establishment of the Dublin Transport Authority, which has been progressed last year with the enactment of the 2008 Act. That Act establishes a new contractual structure relating to the provision of subvented bus services in the Dublin area. It also allows private sector interests to compete for the grant of contracts to provide funded bus services. That is new. We have been talking about doing something like that for many years. There have been a number of false dawns in that regard and different views on what was needed among different shades in the political spectrum, but action is being taken. The DTA Bill has been enacted and there will be much progress on that as the months go by.

The programme for Government also includes a commitment to improve bus services by reforming the bus licensing provisions of the 1932 Act to provide a level playing field for all participants, both public and private. The Government has recently approved the drafting of a public transport regulation Bill which will contain proposals for a new regime updating the Road Transport Act 1932. It is envisaged that the new structure will apply in respect of all commercial bus services, including those provided by Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus.

That Bill will encompass provisions relating to the subvented bus market outside the Dublin area that will be consistent with the new EU Regulation No. 1370/2007 on public service obligations, PSOs, which comes into force in December next. The framework will be broadly similar to that used in the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008. It is intended that responsibility for bus licensing and public transport service contracts nationwide be assigned to the DTA under the Bill, which will be renamed as the national transport authority, given its national focus on these matters.

The Bill is being worked on and should be published and debated here in a couple of months. If we are lucky, we might start the debate before the summer recess. Often legislation takes longer coming through the system than I envisage but all going well it should be before the House before the summer.

The move to formal contracts with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann relating to the compensation they get from the Exchequer towards the additional cost of loss making services provides an opportunity to specify more clearly the scale and quality of services to be provided. The contracts will be set out in far greater detail in future.

Reference was made to bus priority. While much has happened in recent years with the provision of bus lanes, etc., which are great at getting the buses from the suburbs in towards the city, it is accepted that there are many problems in the inner city due to particular pinch points. A bus can travel rapidly in from the suburbs but the last 500 yards can end up taking quite a time, and action will be taken on that. There is an allocation this year of €70 million in Exchequer funding for traffic management measures, including bus priority, €50 million of which is available for the Dublin area, and we will see much progress in that regard. The College Green bus gate has started its public consultation phase with city council. There is also approximately €20 million available for the other main urban areas, for bus priority and park and ride projects.

We hope that the local authorities can be a little more proactive on park and ride projects and bring them forward. Major works this year will include completion of the Carrigaline and Farranree-Blackpool green routes in Cork, the completion of phase 2 of the Dublin Road green route by Limerick County Council and further bus priority measures in Claregalway and on the Dublin Road in Galway. I would ask local authorities in urban areas to bring forward park and ride proposals.

The implementation plans arising from the Deloitte report, which will be submitted fairly soon from the two companies, will address some of the issues raised, such as bunching and out-of-service running, referred to by Deputy Kennedy. Those aspects are aggravating but they will be covered and the implementation plans should address them.

Automatic vehicle location will be introduced, which will help people by telling them where buses are and allow them to plan their journey with real-time passenger information. The DART allows passengers to see when the next train will arrive but a bus timetable, although it is well planned and well laid out, is often fiction due to traffic congestion — people do not know if they can believe it. When there is real time information, it will help convince people the bus service is of a high quality. The DART and Luas have reputations as good, reliable services but there is a lingering attitude that the bus is not a top of the range service. It is difficult, however, for the bus companies to provide a service, even with bus lanes, when they do not control the full environment. The gardaí are needed to control the traffic and the local authorities are needed to provide the roads. If we gave real-time information, and if people could look at the bus stop and see the data updated, it would give a new perception of the service and encourage greater use and confidence in it.

People mentioned integrated ticketing. Progress is being made and will start late this year and early next year.

It is often said, with a degree of truth, that the subvention to public transport here is not as good as that given in Zurich or Stockholm. We are not as good as the best, I do not deny it, but sometimes we are not comparing like with like. Some of these other countries that might, on the surface, get a better subvention must provide not just replacement buses but new buses. Over recent years, the Government has bought 200 additional buses for Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann as well as replacing several hundred others. I am not saying we are at the top of the league for subventions but when we judge that we should compare like with like.

I thank Members for their contributions. When the implementation plans are in place they will point us in the right direction. While this consultants' report targeted some individual routes, the main message asks Dublin Bus to look at all routes to see if it can make greater use of what it has. Some bus services are the same as they were years ago. A new estate would be built further out the road and two stops added to the tail of the route. It could sharpen things up and now is the right time to improve the service and offer better value for money to the taxpayer while improving the service for the punter.