Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

As a public servant, a Member of this House and as a Minister of State, my habit is always to ask myself whether I can do any journey efficiently by public transport. I will only get into the car if the answer is "No" for various practical reasons. This applies equally to journeys between Tipperary and Dublin, journeys within Dublin on sitting days, or attendance at events around the country.

As I use public transport so much, I greatly appreciate the public service provided, and the skill, responsibility, courtesy and friendliness of drivers who improve the quality of environment, the quality of life and choice for all of us. Dublin has a fairly modern bus fleet, which compares well with the fleets in many other cities in other countries. I regard the fares as very reasonable. We finished last night at about 10.45 p.m., following which I took the DART and then took a bus. I paid €1.60 for a three mile journey, where one would normally pay €8 or €10 for a taxi over the same distance. There has been a significant price increase this year of about 10%, but bus fares are still very reasonable value.

There were arguments in other times about the level of subsidy compared to other cities, but everyone must accept that the public finances and the capacity of the taxpayer are very constrained at the moment. We require the best use of limited resources, and it is not tenable to allow an escalation of subsidies at a time when demand is tending to fall.

Buses also provide a social service. During the day, they are mainly occupied by pensioners who travel free of charge who may either not be able to drive for health or other reasons, or who cannot afford to run a car. There are morning and late afternoon concessionary fares for students. Bus Éireann contributes to the mobility that is possible with the free pass, and this covers many parts of the country that are not reached by trains. I would like to see Bus Éireann provide services within our larger towns, and I am thinking particularly of Clonmel in this respect. I appreciate that this might have to wait until better times, but with the growth of towns in the 20,000 to 30,000 population range, it needs to be examined.

We are probably moving towards congestion charges. All forms of tolls, especially those near cities such as the East-Link bridge or the Dublin Port Tunnel, represent a form of such charges. However, there should be concessionary fares for people who use them every day. For ferry services in the west of Scotland, locals often make 20 journeys in one month and they pay a fraction of the cost of a tourist who uses it once or twice.

Frequency, reliability and quality are the particular characteristics of the Luas, and this is an ideal rarely achieved by other forms of public transport, although there are attempts to move in this direction. One could predict how long it takes to get to a particular destination. One does not have to wait for more than a limited period of time, unless it is very early in the morning or very late at night. It is no surprise that the Luas operates without subsidy, in spite of its considerable capital cost. The QBCs, which are largely open to taxis as well, make a very good contribution. They are more developed in Dublin than they are in other cities, although other cities are beginning to adopt them. One of the recommendations of the report is to provide boards which inform passengers when the next bus is arriving.

Leinster House is part of the central administrative district, and it is to be noted how much public transport has improved around here. This is relevant to matters which fall within the responsibility of the OPW and the Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas. How many parking spaces are needed, given the planning permission which requires a restoration of Leinster Lawn? There is a bus stop outside Kildare Street, which is well connected with Heuston Station. If one is going in the other direction, one must go to Dawson Street. There are also buses that stop in Merrion Square, while the Luas is on the other side of St. Stephen's Green. There are rail commuter services from Pearse Station. There is no justification for people working in the House — be they Deputies, Senators, or staff — not to get here some of the time using public transport. For various reasons, all of us need to use cars some of the time.

A final issue is competition and private operators. I have no difficulty with the fact that public transport is primarily a public service, although private operators can supplement and add to that service. I agree with the point opposite on the need to co-ordinate better ticketing and timetables. Once when I went to the famous Galway races from Tipperary I got a train from Ennis, which arrived at 1.25 p.m. and the Bus Éireann bus due to go to Galway at the same time was not scheduled to wait for the train. Luckily the bus was a few minutes late. Better co-ordination would be desirable. Co-ordination is good but the provision of the services and the investment in the services matters. I was struck by the uncomplimentary phrase that we do not want a HSE on wheels, and I know what the Deputy who said that was getting at.

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