Dáil debates
Tuesday, 17 February 2009
Priority Questions
Public Transport.
3:00 pm
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Question 51: To ask the Minister for Transport the way he will increase public transport capacity here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6020/09]
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Significant progress continues to be made in the provision of increased capacity for public transport.
With regard to the rail network, the Cork to Midleton and the Ennis to Athenry lines will reopen later this year while capacity on other services will be refocused to match capacity with demand at a time when the overall position is leading to reduced demand for public transport on particular services at particular times.
The year 2010 will see the completion of the Kildare route project, which will double capacity on that route, and the opening of phase 1 of the Navan rail line from Clonsilla to Pace, near Dunboyne. On the Luas network, construction is continuing on the Luas extensions to the docklands and Cherrywood, with both lines opening for service in 2010. The contract to commence construction of the Luas extension to Citywest was signed recently and the line is expected to open for services in 2011.
Significant planning work for rail, metro and Luas projects is also continuing. The preliminary hearing by An Bord Pleanála on the railway order application for metro north is scheduled for 2 March and the Railway Procurement Agency intends to lodge further applications for railway orders with An Bord Pleanála for the cross-city Luas line and metro west later this year. CIE will also lodge a railway order application for the DART underground later in the year.
As I have stated previously the provision of increased capacity is my key consideration in determining public transport investment priorities in the period ahead. In that context, metro north and the DART underground are particularly important rail investments as they form a core part of the planned integrated public transport network for the greater Dublin area envisaged by Transport 21.
The recent Deloitte report concluded, in the case of Dublin Bus in particular, that the current fleet size is more than adequate to serve current demand. My priority in regard to the bus network is, therefore, working with the bus companies and the local authorities to maximise the efficient and effective utilisation of the existing fleet. In that context, Dublin Bus will focus in the period ahead on a reorganisation of its network in accordance with the recommendations contained in the Deloitte report. My Department is also engaged with local authorities on the provision of bus priority measures such as the bus gate at College Green and green routes in the provincial cities in order to maximise the potential of the network.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is it possible for Deputy Mitchell to offer?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Unfortunately, I do not think it is possible to have someone else take a Priority Question. I am sorry about that. We will have to move on to the next question.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I will ask on behalf of Deputy O'Dowd.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Some aspects of that question may be dealt with later.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Question 52: To ask the Minister for Transport if he will report on the key actions contained in his recent document, Smarter Travel — A Sustainable Transport Future; the reason there are no specific targets and deadlines for each of the actions proposed within the document; when the total €4.6 billion that this policy will cost will be allocated; the amount of the €4.6 billion which will be spent in 2009; the way the policy aim of promoting a modal switch to public and other more environmentally friendly forms of transport will be achieved in view of the recent programme of cutbacks announced for Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann and the recommendations that he has accepted from the recent Deloitte report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5910/09]
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Question 54: To ask the Minister for Transport the specific budget that is planned for the sustainable transport plan; the timeframe associated with each individual action point; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6022/09]
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 52 and 54 together.
Smarter Travel — A Sustainable Transport Future, sets out a range of actions across all areas of Government to deliver a sustainable transport system by the year 2020. The new policy framework has ambitious targets, including a reduction in car commuting from a 65% share in 2006 to 45% by 2020. It also sets out specific ambitions in other areas. For example, it affirms the Government's commitment to have 10% market penetration for electric vehicles by 2020.
I do not see the present financial difficulties of Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann as impacting negatively on the long-term goals of the smarter travel policy. In response to the financial difficulties they face, it should be noted that the Deloitte report on a cost and efficiency review of the two companies makes clear that there is now an opportunity in the case of Dublin Bus to create a simplified network offering improved services with improved cost efficiency.
Such an approach, complemented by other measures to improve the efficiency of bus services such as more bus priority measures and integrated ticketing, could minimise if not offset any potential adverse impact of service changes eventually decided on by the companies. Implementing the recommendations of the Deloitte report shows clearly that doing things smarter and being more customer focused could lead to a better service, more customers and savings that can be used to improve services even more.
The action period of 12 years is ambitious in itself. International experience teaches that the type of wide-ranging changes needed do not happen at defined milestones but rather occur on an incremental basis over a period of time. In that light, it is not useful to assign precise deadlines to each action.
Similarly, the policy is upfront about the estimated cost of €4.5 billion. The allocation of such funding will depend on the prevailing economic climate and in the present circumstances the focus will be on making progress from within existing resources. Having the framework in place means that future transport expenditure will be geared towards the implementation of those policies so the 2011 review of Transport 21 and the 2015 review of the national development plan will have to take the policy fully into account.
That said, I am happy to announce that intensive work has started on delivering actions in 2009. The National Sustainable Travel Office has been established. The proposed national cycle policy framework will be launched shortly. In the near future I will also announce a sustainable travel demonstration fund to support innovative projects in this area. This year up to 150,00 schoolchildren will be reached through the green schools travel initiative. In all, I will be increasing the funding for sustainable travel projects from €3 million in 2008 to €14 million in 2009. That is in addition to other investments under Transport 21 in 2009, including €50 million for travel management grants and support. Those infrastructural improvements will support sustainable travel targets.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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If I understand the Minister correctly, under the 12-year plan, the actual net amount being provided in 2009 for smarter travel, of which the majority of Members of this House would be supportive, is only €6 million. The Minister announced last week that €4.5 billion would be available up to 2020, in addition to Transport 21. To most ordinary citizens that would appear to suggest an allocation of €400 million a year over the 12 years but we find out now that the allocation is a derisory €6 million.
The report outlines 49 actions but, unlike the road safety report, there are no deadlines so there is no pressure, no sense of measurement or targets. How is the modal move away from cars to be achieved? Will the Minister indicate why there are not targets or deadlines? How will the Minister and the transport stakeholders be held to account?
At the launch of the report the Minister indicated he envisaged the introduction of congestion charges in three years. Will he outline how he sees them being introduced, and what will happen this year? The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, wants more tolls and road pricing. Does the Minister support the introduction of those measures in 2009 and 2010? One of the most important outcomes of the report must be a fall in transport emissions but, again, there is no target in the report. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and the hapless Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, will achieve a reduction in transport emissions because the economy is contracting at a rate between 6% and 10%. That is the only reason the Minister will achieve anything.
I welcome the initiative on sustainable transport. The Minister appeared to suggest that Galway is the priority city for sustainable transport and that it would get significant additional resources for that purpose. Since that announcement we heard from the media that there would be a competition involving all the towns and cities in the country. Is Galway to become a sustainable city or is it not?
The move to a more sustainable form of transport is a kind of sick joke by the Minister in the context of the loss of 600 jobs and 300 buses in Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. On the one hand the Minister produced a fancy report, which he dallied over for the past two years and at the same time he is slashing public transport and leaving commuters all over the country with reduced services, reduced frequencies and a much inferior transport system. Is the report not simply a joke?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I had better make sure to invite Deputy Broughan to the next launch of a report so that he will not misinterpret it or get his information third hand. His press release contained a series of premises on which he has based his criticism of me in the House.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I heard what the Minister said.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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First, I did not announce €4.5 billion extra, in addition to Transport 21. I said the full implementation of the proposals outlined in the document would cost €4.5 billion. I was asked where I would get the money and I replied honestly that it would be initially from re-ordering priorities within the Transport 21 envelope. When the review of Transport 21 takes place in 2011, I will be seeking money for the full implementation of the report in that context. In the meantime, it is not €3 million or €6 million extra, as the Deputy indicated——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister just told us it is €6 million.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I told the Deputy it is €14 million plus. That is the net amount. The Deputy cannot ignore the other matters. I mentioned one other sum and if he tempts me I may go through a list of other things I can tell him we are doing that ties in fully with the document on smarter travel. An additional €14 million will be provided while €50 million will be spent on traffic management plans and grants. I hope the Deputy will instruct and inform his party's councillors in the Dublin area when he is crying about buses and bus services——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is an old cliche. The Minister should inform his party's councillors.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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——that we would like progress on bus priority, public transport and the College Green bus gate.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I have no problem with that
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely wonderful. I do not know why the management of Dublin City Council seems to have received instructions from certain people that it should not go near this until well after the local elections.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is a smokescreen.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The target set for the reduction in transport emissions as a result of these policies is 4 million tonnes.
With regard to the question on sustainable cities, we could do wonderful work in Galway on sustainable transport but I did not announce it as the sustainable transport city.
I did not dally over this issue for the past two years. I launched a consultation process at the beginning of last year and received 500 responses.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Including from the Labour Party
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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An interdepartmental committee went through all the responses carefully and gave due credence to them before drafting the——
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for being late but I was studying my notes for the first priority question. As a former teacher, the Minister will understand that sometimes one can spend too much time on research.
Sustainable transport means sustainable living and while the weaknesses in the report are the failure to set deadlines and make provision for funding, a radical plan is needed using joined up thinking to link the planning process with transport and job creation policies. Proper land use and transport strategy planning is needed and, in their absence, we will never get it right. The problem up to now was during the Celtic tiger boom, houses were built everywhere but appropriate transport plans were not devised.
The planning system should be radically reformed. For example, the Minister should insist on the development of housing, even if that means it is high density and proper quality environmental build; on the greenfield and brownfield sites inside the metro west corridor; and where people work should also be taken into consideration. In the absence of a co-ordinated plan between the local authority and the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Transport, the Minister's policy will not work.
The projections of the Central Statistics Office highlight a massive population increase in counties Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth. If an additional 200,000 are living in the region by 2020, the policy does not make sense, given the demand that will place on infrastructure. Does the Minister agree joined up thinking is needed to produce a radical plan, which this is not? If one does not have joined up thinking, one will not have sustainable transport.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy and I only diverge from him on one issue. I brought forward the DTA Bill, which provided for land use and transport studies, development plans and so on in the greater Dublin area, GDA. It is my intention to enhance the policy framework in the national transport regulation Bill, which will provide for the absorption of the DTA into a larger body, and in the sustainable transport and travel Bill, to be introduced at the end of the year, which will spell this out in more detail. The Deputy is absolutely correct that we have an opportunity now that we did not have during the boom to avail of joined up thinking to make sure land use and transport are provided for and high density housing is developed on the available sites.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I was leader of the Labour Party on Dublin City Council for more than eight years. One of our core policies has always been a sustainable transport system for Dublin. We launched a widespread sustainable approach to transport in the city in the early 1990s. For example, I proposed the first cycle way network for Dublin. We also sought real time and intermediate information and much better bus networks. Our current party leader, Councillor Kevin Humphreys, and his colleagues on the city council are following the same fundamental beliefs and are looking as much as I am for sustainable transport.
The Minister and the Green Party should not hide behind stupid smokescreens regarding the necessary changes in the provision of enhanced public transport. Fianna Fáil's lethargy over the past 12 years in doing anything about these measures is why we find ourselves with a serious public transport deficit. For example, when will John Tierney and his committee produce a report on the measures necessary to permit metro north to proceed in central Dublin? The Minister should not use cliches and smokescreens.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Dublin Transport Office produced a plan some time ago, in which it outlined diagrammatically the massive growth in the GDA and compared that to what might have been if proper land use planning had been adopted. Does the Minister agree a radical plan is needed for the GDA, particularly inside the M50-metro west corridor with all the brownfield and greenfield sites developed first before proceeding outside the corridor? That is a critical issue and if the Minister can take a definitive direction on that, he will ensure sustainable transport planning but if he cannot, urban sprawl will continue.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct that the public transport corridors should be fitted to the higher density housing development. The DTO did good work on this. One of the graphics outlined where people work while another outlined the routes they travel to work by car, which are mostly similar, and another showed the bus routes available. This graphic highlighted huge swathes of the GDA that are without a bus service but large numbers of people are moving into these areas and that is part of the difficulty.
The Deputy's general point about concentrating development and using public transport is absolutely correct. It is essential that happens and it can be done under the DTA legislation because all the local authorities in the GDA must tie their development plans to their transport plans.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Question 53: To ask the Minister for Transport if he plans to implement all recommendations of the Deloitte report on the cost and efficiency review of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann; the timeframe he expects to be assigned to these actions; the action he will take in the event of non-compliance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6021/09]
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I have asked the chairman of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann to submit for my approval a detailed programme for the implementation of the Deloitte report recommendations. A decision on the implementation period will be made in the context of that programme taking account of the estimate in the report that the redesign of the Dublin network could take 18 to 24 months. This programme will, taking account of the approach outlined in the report, set out the key actions, target dates and the arrangements for management, monitoring and reporting. On receipt of the plan, monitoring measures will be put in place in my Department to provide the reassurance that the necessary changes are being made. As both companies have welcomed the report, I anticipate the full support of all in the timely implementation of its recommendations. Yesterday, I met representatives of SIPTU and the NBRU who also warmly welcomed the report and supported its recommendations on the network.
The implementation of the other recommendations relating to bus priority, integrated ticketing, demand management measures, bus licensing and the move to PSO contracts are already being pursued by my Department in conjunction with the DTO and the RPA where appropriate.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Is it not the case that even at the height of the boom the number of people travelling to work by bus was dropping? I believe it decreased by approximately 3% in 2005. It is anticipated that the number travelling by bus will decrease further and now 290 Dublin Bus workers have been made redundant and 120 buses that the taxpayer bought are to be mothballed. What will happen to those buses? This is a failure of Government policy to open the market to competition. If Dublin Bus cannot use those buses, why should they lie mothballed given that thousands of people living in the greater Dublin area have no bus service? Why not offer the buses, which taxpayers own, to private enterprise to operate routes that do not exist at present? There is no point in mothballing them for the next number of years.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy again.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Gabh mo leithscéal a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I do not believe I have had my three minutes.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy has only one minute.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Yes, the Deputy has a full three minutes more — that is for the full question. So I will call the Minister and then I will call the Deputy.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I thought there were six minutes for the whole question.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are three and a half minutes left.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have not been speaking for two and a half minutes, surely.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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You have been speaking for two minutes.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Therefore, I still have half a minute left. I may be working by a different clock from everybody else. If I may I will put the boot in, in the political sense. The job losses could be reversed by reorganising the routes and allowing private enterprise to come in and re-employ those people on buses that are to be mothballed.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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There is absolutely nothing to prevent a private sector company from applying for a licence to operate routes throughout the city on any routes that are available. There is a licensing system under the 1932 Act. By 9 December next year, if there are new PSO routes to be put in place, they will also be open to the private sector. Regarding the buses Dublin Bus believes it is necessary to take out of commission, the normal procedure is that each year a certain number of buses are bought and older ones are taken out of service, if that is necessary. That is a matter under discussion between management and unions in the company and I do not want to stray into that area.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I wish to explain the methodology I applied. Rather than allow Deputies to use up all their time, I like to get in a second supplementary question.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have no problem with that. However, listening to Deputy Broughan, I thought he spoke for much longer on his question. Maybe I got it wrong.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I am a faster speaker.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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On that occasion, two questions were taken together. As we did not use up the time for the first question, I allowed an extra four minutes.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's fairness.
The key point about the Deloitte report is that significant work practice changes are required. I accept that the Harristown garage is one of the issues on the Finglas route. Dublin Bus is losing €2 million each year on that route. If it were to reorganise it, some €2 million could be saved. If there are 14 generic routes, Dublin Bus would save approximately €30 million within the system by changing it around and still keep all those people working. If it was changed, people could still have jobs.
I was shocked at the 20% out of service time for buses on that route. In other words, for 20% of the time the bus is being driven by the driver without any passengers on board because it is going to or from the garage or the location where the driver has his or her breaks. I accept the breaks are sacrosanct, but the drivers should travel in a different vehicle and the bus should be used for its public transport purpose. In comparison, out of service time in the UK is between 3% and 10%. Radical changes are required, but there is no need for all of these job losses.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy. To be fair to both sides, the Deloitte report points to many positives and good work done by management and unions in Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. Bus Éireann gets a very good bill of health on its services. There are a number of things it could change. Bus Átha Cliath can and must change. It is somewhat unfortunate that the Deloitte report has been published at the same time as we have hit the wall on finances. Despite the €330 million taxpayers are giving to the company, it has hit this wall and the two things happen to coincide. In a time that was less fraught than the present, we would have time to make the changes, save the money and increase passenger numbers, which is the ultimate aim.
As I said, the industrial relations issues need to be addressed. Speaking to me yesterday, representatives of both unions accepted the principles of the Deloitte report. We need to implement those changes as quickly as possible to realise whatever savings can be made. I do not believe it would be €2 million on each route, but it should be a significant amount and would allow more money into the system. Crucially, it would give a better service to more passengers, which is my aim.