Dáil debates

Wednesday, 4 February 2009

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Northern Ireland Issues.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35748/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting on 17 October 2008 with a delegation from the Democratic Unionist Party. [36581/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting on 17 October 2008 with a delegation from Sinn Féin. [36582/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Sinn Féin on 17 October 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36670/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Northern Ireland First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36671/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the British Prime Minister on the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42397/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in relation to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42398/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach if the relatives of those killed in the Ballymurphy massacre by the British army in August 1971 have requested a meeting with him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43740/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44685/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46563/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 17: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46564/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 18: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46565/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 19: To ask the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Brown; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46566/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 20: To ask the Taoiseach when the Forum on Peace and Reconciliation will next meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46574/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 21: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his participation in the seventh plenary meeting of the North South Ministerial Council held in Derry on 23 January 2009. [3044/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 22: To ask the Taoiseach his plans for the future of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3142/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 23: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent North South Ministerial Council meeting in Derry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3349/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 23, inclusive, together.

Together with my ministerial colleagues, I met with First Minister Peter Robinson, Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and their colleagues at the seventh plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council in Magee College, Derry on Friday, 23 January.

We had a very wide-ranging and practical discussion with a focus on how we can work together to face the challenges that confront us, including the economic challenges and the need for continuing practical and mutually beneficial North-South co-operation which can assist both Administrations in our efforts to deal with the economic downturn.

The council noted the key developments in the North-South Ministerial Council through the 14 sectoral meetings held since the last plenary meeting in Dundalk last February and welcomed the co-operation taken forward at those meetings. We also had an opportunity to discuss the excellent examples of projects being taken forward in the north west through the north-west gateway initiative, where there is significant co-operation on road infrastructure, airports, skills and training, higher education and spatial planning. Agencies such as the IDA, Invest NI, Tourism Ireland and InterTrade Ireland are working closely together on inward investment, tourism and cross-Border trade.

We noted progress on the North-South parliamentary forum and the agreement to establish two working groups to develop proposals for such a body as well as the Irish Government's proposals on the role, format, membership and operation of a North-South consultative forum and the progress made on the review of the civic forum in Northern Ireland.

I would like to commend the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on reaching an agreement which enabled the resumption of meetings of the Northern Ireland Executive. It is clear that a considerable amount of work has been done by the Northern Ireland political parties on the arrangements for the devolution of policing and justice and I believe that we can all have confidence that devolution will take place within a reasonable timeframe.

At my meetings with both the First Minister, Peter Robinson, and Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, on 17 October, in their parties' capacities, we had detailed discussions on the then political impasse. I also emphasised the importance of North-South co-operation and the all-island economy and the potential for developing synergies North and South, particularly at this difficult time for both economies. I stressed that progress was needed on other areas such as the North-South consultative forum, the North-South parliamentary forum and the review of the North-South bodies. I am glad to see that important progress has been made since then.

I have kept in regular contact with Prime Minister Brown over recent months on Northern Ireland and our officials continue to meet frequently. I expect to meet Prime Minister Brown at the next EU Council meeting in March.

I did receive a request to meet with representatives of the Ballymurphy Families Committee and I understand that the families recently met with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and they also met the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin on Thursday, 29 January.

With the restoration of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland, there are no current proposals to re-convene the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the Taoiseach concerned about the growing unease about dissident republicans and their activities in Northern Ireland, as a result of the discovery of a 300 lb car bomb in County Down recently, which was, apparently, intended for the Ballykindler army base? What is the Government assessment of the numbers involved in dissident republican activities? Based on the information available to the Taoiseach from security information, is he concerned about this? Has the Taoiseach taken into account the comment by the Garda Commissioner recently that the impact and effect of these persons should not be underestimated?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no room for complacency with regard to dissident activity. As the Deputy knows, the security services have been keeping a close eye on and have been involved in monitoring and surveillance of activities. Thankfully, they have been very successful in intervening and ensuring that certain major catastrophes did not happen in the past, given the malign intent of these people to cause havoc and undermine the democratic wishes of the people North and South to live in peace and harmony under both the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement.

It is important to emphasise that the Garda Commissioner and other security services management personnel are vigilant in this matter. The level of co-operation between the police forces on the island is what is necessary and I am not aware of any problems regarding the necessary co-operation required to liaise closely and keep a close eye on these people.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Eames-Bradley report published recently makes 30 recommendations. Has the Taoiseach examined that report and is there a Government response on the implementation of these recommendations? Is it correct policy to pursue compensation for families of victims, as is proposed? Money can never bring back a loved one, nor does money equate with the truth being made available to people. Has any family of victims in this jurisdiction been compensated by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? If so, has the Taoiseach the relevant figures in that regard?

Does the Taoiseach have a view on information available to the British Government being made available to the families of the victims of the Omagh bomb who are pursuing the terrorists through the courts?

The Tánaiste referred recently to the fact that she was considering introducing price controls to deal with the situation where retailers were not offering the correct euro-sterling exchange rate. What guidelines or conditions does she intend to introduce and when does she intend to introduce them?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is extending the remit of the question beyond its boundaries.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That question is beyond the remit of these questions. Perhaps questions to the Tánaiste would elicit the answer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will ask her so, but she does not answer very clearly much of the time.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure she will. Do not worry about that.

Photo of Mary CoughlanMary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I can be very distinct.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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She will be very clear and concise if she knows the information that is required.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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She did not answer very well yesterday.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will take the Taoiseach's advice and ask her a question, if he takes my advice on issues also.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No deal.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let us not fall out over it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Eames-Bradley report is somewhat outside the remit of these questions also, but I will try to be helpful. I commend the group on the extraordinary effort it put into its difficult task, and particularly the widespread consultations in which it engaged during the course of its work. Finding consensus or any agreed way forward around issues coming out of a conflict is very difficult, if not impossible, given the depth of hurt and suspicion still there. The report itself covers such themes as the legacy of the past, reconciliation, support for victims and survivors, addressing society issues and justice and information recovery. I would not like to give a detailed response on the report as yet. The issues with which it deals are complex and require detailed consideration.

With regard to the question of payments to families, this is a lengthy report on very complex issues that has been prepared by people of impeccable credentials over 18 months. It would be premature for me to comment on aspects of the report in isolation, without giving full consideration to all its recommendations. It has always been the Government's position that there should not be a hierarchy of victims. The loss of a loved one affects those left behind equally.

However, I understand the depth of feeling in Northern Ireland on the issue of payments to families of all those who died as a result of the conflict. I note that the First Minister and others have expressed reservations about a proposal that would, potentially, see payments to families of perpetrators as well as to victims of atrocities. I understand that point of view. It is an issue we need to consider further.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I understand that one of the decisions made at the North-South Ministerial Council was to establish two working groups to look at the idea of progressing the North-South parliamentary body promised or intended to be established following the Good Friday Agreement. I have raised this issue previously, but little or no progress has been made on establishing the North-South parliamentary body. What is the intention with regard to the working groups? Is there a timetable within which they must report and when, realistically, might we see some progress being made on the establishment of a North-South parliamentary body?

There has been a suggestion from the DUP that the number of Ministries in the Northern Ireland Executive might be reduced. I understand this suggestion is being advanced as a kind of cost-cutting measure in the current economic environment. While I can see there would be political temptation on the part of the DUP and, perhaps, Sinn Féin to reduce the number of Ministries, which would have consequences for the SDLP and the UUP, this would hardly help the overall political structure and framework in Northern Ireland. What is the Taoiseach's view of the suggestion regarding a reduction in the number of Ministries? If the number of Ministries is reduced will there be consequential changes in the method of appointment of Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure broad cross-party representation?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the North-South parliamentary body it is not true to state there has been no progress. The Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly, Mr. Willie Hay, are to be commended for the efforts they are making to ensure contacts between the two institutions are encouraged. Visits have taken place both ways. This is gaining its own momentum with the agreement of all and we should leave it to the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker to lead the process on behalf of us all.

On this side of the Border we would like to have seen this North-South parliamentary forum well established by now. Obviously we must work with everybody and all sensitivities must be recognised and understood. I believe there is much good will and good faith in the efforts being made. I hope in due time we will see the establishment of such a body.

The British Irish Interparliamentary Body was established in the 1980s and I was a member of its first configuration. I believe it served a very good role, not only with regard to individual relations between politicians from both Parliaments but the subject matter of discussions also helped people gain a perspective and understanding of other points of view. It built a basis of trust and dissipated suspicion and prejudices which people may have had in the past in terms of the role both countries could play in seeking to resolve conflict and be seen to work co-operatively in many areas by emphasising that we have far more in common than what separated us in many respects. Similarly, a North-South parliamentary body has the potential to clear away much of the fog and misconceptions which only personal relationships can help dispel.

Many in this House have the skills to assist in this process of practical reconciliation which should never be underestimated in the context of the political dynamic of the country. I hope the efforts of the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker working together will bring about such an outcome. It has much potential for good. It will not change the paradigm and no one suggests it will do the devil and all, but it will be an important step forward in the relationship between both sides of the Border.

With regard to reconfigurations of the Executive, strand one issues are for the parties in Northern Ireland. The format agreed to and which forms part of the Good Friday Agreement emphasises the need for inclusivity and representation. The question of mandatory coalitions and coalitions necessary in a divided society should not be underestimated. The question of representation and the fullest possible participation by parties in the Assembly in the Executive functions of Northern Ireland's affairs would be good in terms of embedding the progress we have seen thus far and ensuring the change is irreversible.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the statement made by the Taoiseach during his visit to Derry on 23 January when he indicated the economies North and South should work together to tackle the economic downturn, help to provide people with value for money and address cost issues. Recognising the current traffic is from South to North and it is not that long ago since it was from North to South does the Taoiseach accept the outworking of his remarks in Derry are to work towards a harmonisation of the economies North and South? This is the only way we can tackle the serious problem presenting South of the Border where entire sectors, not least the retail sector, are suffering serious downturns. Across the board significant numbers of job losses are being recorded every week.

In the course of the Taoiseach's meeting with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister did he address these issues directly, specifically with regard to price and VAT differentials between the two jurisdictions? In this context and given the budget increase of 0.5% in VAT here and its decrease North of the Border has the Taoiseach given further consideration to helping to create a new impetus within the commercial life of this jurisdiction, particularly with a eye to the Border counties, through a VAT reduction of 2% for which I and colleagues have argued?

With regard to the Ballymurphy massacre by the British Army in August 1971 is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate a willingness to meet with the Ballymurphy massacre relatives recognising that they have been campaigning since August 1971 through all of these years seeking the opportunity to have justice recorded in their case? Among the victims were a mother of eight children and a local priest.

I welcome the fact the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, met the families last week and acknowledged that many questions remain unanswered with regard to their particular story and suffering. Will the Taoiseach indicate that he would be willing to meet the families and recognise they have real concerns arising from the Eames Bradley report recommendation that further inquiries would not take place and that there would be a line drawn and closure for these families and others? It is unquestionably acknowledged——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach will not have a chance to reply because we are running out of time.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There is real hurt and pain which require address. As the former Taoiseach did in terms of meeting and engaging with such groups, will the Taoiseach indicate a willingness also to meet with this particular group of families? I urge that he acknowledge in the affirmative.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach not think it was bad judgment on the part of the Government to close the barracks in the Border region——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This has nothing to do with it.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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——and move the Army personnel further away when paramilitary activity is still taking place in the region?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If I had known Deputy Bannon was going to ask this I would not have called him at all.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle should not be like that.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It has nothing to do with the question.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the North-South Ministerial Council and trade matters, one of the great hopes and legacies of having a peace process is the win-win situation for both sides. This is as true for Border regions and areas as it is for any other part of the island. Trying to achieve fiscal harmonisation is difficult. The powers with regard to this matter reside in Westminster as far as Northern Ireland is concerned. To have differentiated tax systems within one jurisdiction is difficult to achieve. Over a period of time, a number of reports have been done on this matter and a number of inquiries and examinations have also been made. My attitude is that we must find those areas in which we can co-operate practically and park those areas in which we find it difficult to make headway. We should deal with the situation as it is rather than how we would like it to be.

There have been flows between the North and South in both directions at various times. The real problem has been the very strong fluctuation in the exchange rate between sterling and the euro. The appreciation of the euro against sterling brings about serious issues for us in terms of spend and flows of trade and consumer traffic. We must do what we can in our own interest bearing in mind that we are members of the euro area. Our interests have been accentuated in recent times in terms of representing a zone of stability for an open economy like ours. A stronger currency and stronger Central Bank to help us deal with the monetary issues that have arisen in recent months and years have been critical to our ability to cope with the circumstances that have presented themselves to us in recent times.

We must address the issues of becoming more competitive and reducing our costs as part of dealing with the problem that has arisen. I hope we will see far more stable exchange rate movements as soon as possible to avoid the distortion that can take place on either side of the Border, depending on the value of the currencies. We must continue to contend with this. Rather than pointing to this as a reason for division between us, we should acknowledge there are macro-economic circumstances that we cannot control and that we should, therefore, get on with practical co-operation on training, upskilling and, as the Deputy suggested, using the regional approach. For example, the North West Gateway Initiative between Donegal and Derry has considerable untapped potential.

In other Border areas, we must address the need to overcome the legacy of the past, which reinforced the partitionist mentality that it was a win-lose situation or a zero sum game. We must create win-win situations and can do so by emphasising and pointing to areas of co-operation in the delivery of health and education services and public services generally. We must also emphasise trade and investment and the benefit that accrues from creating employment in the regions in question, such that people can go across borders once job opportunities are created. These are the areas we must emphasise. Let the problems that we cannot solve in the medium term not detract from the enthusiasm we need to show in respect of others, in respect of which we can make a lot more progress more quickly.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What about the Ballymurphy families?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs met the families only last week. I will have him report to me and determine where we can take the matter from here.