Dáil debates

Wednesday, 4 February 2009

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Departmental Staff.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the cost, including salary and pension payments, of each of the programme managers, special advisers, assistants or other staff appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35746/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the names, titles and duties of each of the staff appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35747/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the advisers, press officers, or other non-Civil Service staff appointed by him since 7 May 2008 and the duties of each; the annual salary costs for such staff; if this group of staff will be subject to the 3% reduction in payroll costs announced in July 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38355/08]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the titles, duties and salaries of each of the non-Civil Service staff appointed by him since his election as Taoiseach; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43741/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the duties and responsibilities of the special political advisers as appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46579/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the number of political advisers or assistants appointed by the Attorney General; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46605/08]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.

The names, titles and total annual salary, including pension contributions, of each of the staff appointed by me are detailed in the table. Under the direction of the programme manager, the primary function of the special advisers is to monitor, facilitate and help secure the achievement of Government objectives and ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for Government. They are also tasked with giving me advice and keeping me informed on a wide range of issues, including business, financial, economic, political, environmental, administrative and media matters, and performing such other functions as may be directed by me from time to time. In addition, a number of my advisers have specific responsibilities in relation to speech drafting.

My programme manager meets other ministerial advisers on a weekly basis. He monitors and reports to me on progress in implementing the programme for Government.

I also appointed four non-established civil servants to the Government Chief Whip, two of whom are based in his private office and two in his Finglas constituency office — these are work sharers. I appointed Mr. Pádraig Slyne as special adviser to the Government Chief Whip. In addition, I appointed Mr. Eoghan Ó Neachtain as Government press secretary. He is supported by two deputy Government press secretaries, Mr. Mark Costigan and Mr. John Downing, who are supported by two non-established civil servants.

The Government press secretary and press officers provide an information service on Government policy to the public through the national and international media on behalf of me, my Department and the Government, together with promoting a co-ordinated approach to media matters across all Departments. The central task of the deputy Government press secretaries is to assist the Government press secretary in communicating to the media the decisions of Government.

The personal assistants and personal secretaries in my Department have a range of duties, including providing administrative assistance in the constituency office, protocol division and the Government Chief Whip's office. The Green Party programme manager, based in Government Buildings, is not a member of staff of my Department.

All appointments made by me comply with relevant legislation, including the terms of the Civil Service (Regulation) Act 2006 and the relevant directions on ministerial staff appointments of the Department of Finance. My Department will comply fully with the requirements of the Government decision of 8 July 2008. This compliance will necessitate the achievement of a 3% reduction in my Department's payroll figure by the end of 2009 and managing staffing within existing resources and budgetary limits, having regard to the overall priorities of the Department. In doing so, the Department will endeavour to redeploy staff according to key business needs and levels of activity, restructure workloads as appropriate and achieve greater productivity through exploiting new technologies and availing of shared service arrangements.

On the recommendation of the Attorney General, Mr. Paul Gallagher, Mr. Francis Kieran was appointed as special assistant to the Attorney General to act as a liaison between the Attorney General and myself and other Departments on items relevant to the programme for Government, as well as to keep the Attorney General informed on items arising in the Oireachtas or media which could impinge on or be relevant to his role. The position of Attorney General is not a political position and, as such, Mr. Kieran does not provide political advice.

Advisers' remuneration is linked to Civil Service pay scales and will, therefore, be subject to any possible adjustment that the Government may implement across the public service.

NameTitleAnnual Salary
**Joe LennonProgramme Manager/Special Adviser**221,929
Gerry SteadmanSpecial Adviser131,748
Brian MurphySpecial Adviser131,748
*Declan RyanSpecial Adviser94,785
*Peter ClinchSpecial Adviser204,952
Oliver O'ConnorSpecial Adviser (to the Minister for Health and Children)177,547
*Padraig SlyneSpecial Adviser (to the Government Chief Whip)96,555
Sineád DooleyPersonal Assistant66,179
Peter LenehanPersonal Assistant53,354
Annette McManusPersonal Assistant49,685
Denise KavanaghPersonal Assistant61,082
John SheridanPersonal Assistant46,558
Yvonne GrahamPersonal Assistant55,030
Sarah McLoughlinPersonal Assistant55,030
Aoife Ní LochlainnPersonal Assistant47,973
***Margaret FogartySecretarial Assistant to Government Chief Whip and Minister of State [Finglas Office]20,239
***Linda WeirSecretarial Assistant to Government Chief Whip and Minister of State [Finglas Office]21,398
Elaine HoganPersonal Secretary [Tullamore Office]40,479
Colette WatersPersonal Secretary [Tullamore Office]39,351
Eoghan O NeachtainGovernment Press Secretary150,712
*Mark CostiganDeputy Government Press Secretary111,818
John DowningDeputy Government Press Secretary118,759
*These members of staff are not members of a Civil Service pension scheme. They receive a contribution towards their pension fund of 11% of their salary, which they arrange separately. All other staff are members of the Civil Service pension schemes. Separate superannuation arrangements for which the Department of Finance has responsibility are in place for them.
**Mr. Joe Lennon, programme manager-special adviser, has made a gift of €22,193, being part of his emoluments from his employment in 2009, for use for any purpose for or towards the cost of which public moneys are provided. The Minister for Finance has accepted the gift. The salary mentioned above is the total salary prior to the making of the gift.
***On a 50% work-sharing basis.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure how long it took someone to draft the Taoiseach's reply or what it cost to do so. I recall that until the 1970s, replies to parliamentary questions included their cost. This is a complex issue.

I realise the Taoiseach must have staff to assist him in his work. Last year, the total cost of the Taoiseach's appointments, including advisers and personal appointments, was €1.6 million. In 2008, the cost of Government special advisers, media advisers and other personally appointed staff amounted to €6.2 million. What level of cutbacks will apply in this regard in the Taoiseach's Department this year?

I note from recent answers to parliamentary questions that a significant number of advisers receive additional payments for salary purposes amounting to 11% of salary. As these persons are not part of the public pension scheme, is it intended that they will pay an appropriate levy for pension purposes arising from yesterday's decisions?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated, those who have a pension entitlement by way of their employment, for example, advisers who have a previous work record as public servants — some of the individuals in question are in that position — will be subject to the same arrangements as any other public servant based on the decision that was made. I have indicated that those who do not have such an arrangement and for whom pensions do not form part of their terms and conditions will volunteer a 10% cut in their salary.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the communications unit still intact in the Department of the Taoiseach or is it part of the media communications wing servicing the Taoiseach's needs? We used to have discussions in the House about the unit's purpose, responsibilities and cost and the Taoiseach's predecessor used to invite Opposition Members to visit it to see what it was doing. Is that still intact and functioning?

The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, who is not here, came second in terms of spend to the Taoiseach. The amount spent on personal appointments, including advisers, in 2008 was €514,000. This does not include special advisers seconded from the Taoiseach's office. His predecessor, Deputy Bertie Ahern, said the Minister was given that level of staff because she was the leader of her party. The Minister is not now the leader of the Progressive Democrats.

Why, then, was a special adviser with responsibility for health and children to the Minister seconded from the Department of the Taoiseach? If there are 600 people working in the Department of Health and Children and 125,000 working in the HSE, why is it necessary to have a person seconded from the Department of the Taoiseach to be a special adviser to the Minister for Health and Children? Can the Taoiseach explain that? I fail to understand how this can apply.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a situation I arranged for and agreed to, on the basis of the heavy workload of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, and the extensive reform programme in which she is engaged. Not only is the policy advice available to her, it is available to the whole Government and covers a range of issues. It was an arrangement I was prepared to enter into in view of the circumstances regarding the work of the particular Minister and Department.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Minister requires the number of advisers she now has but is not the leader of a party, and the Taoiseach's predecessor said she needed the advisers because she was the leader of a minority Government party, it is a contradiction. I do not think I will get anywhere with this line of argument.

I find it strange that somebody from the Department of the Taoiseach is seconded as a special adviser to the Minister when there are people in her own Department and elsewhere who would probably be able to give equivalent advice in a better format and at a lower cost. I am not running down the person doing the job.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We all accept the Taoiseach and Ministers require staff in their private offices to do the job that has to be done and respond to public enquires and so on. We also accept there is a necessity for policy advisers to provide advice of a political nature to Ministers. I do not know why there is a necessity to have the numbers we now have. It is a mystery as the Government has been in office for almost 12 years.

The area of employment which requires more scrutiny is the extent of the employment of people whose job is the publicity and promotion of the Minister concerned and who do constituency work for that Minister. It seems that many of the additional staff employed in private and constituency offices of Ministers are doing precisely that and are doing constituency work above and beyond what the normal allocation would be for any Deputy in the House. In the present circumstances, and given what is being done with public service pay and pensions, that is a luxury which can no longer be afforded.

How will the 3% cut announced last July apply to the staff employed in constituency offices of Ministers? Yesterday's announcement concerned a levy on pensions. Is there any corresponding cut or reduction in staff numbers which would take effect in that area? My final point is on the proposal made during the Christmas recess by Senator Boyle that there should be a reduction in the number of Ministers of State. Does the Taoiseach have any intention of going along with that suggestion? What is his response to it?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The questions relate to the Taoiseach's staff. Deputy Gilmore is wandering off the question.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach can confine his answer to staff in the Taoiseach's office and Minister of State.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Gilmore is heading off into the horizon.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are 11 men on the other side of the House who would die on their swords for the Taoiseach.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The 3% payroll savings will apply across all Departments. It is how we provided for savings in that area and they are departmental targets. I have also indicated that the offices of Ministers and Minister of State should seek to reduce costs by 10% this year, which is a political decision I made yesterday.

We must show every effort to reduce costs in all areas of activity, including the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State. If it is necessary to redeploy some people back into Departments to do departmental work, that should proceed. I have no problem with making sure these things are done in the appropriate way, commensurate to the workload. As a former incumbent, Deputy Kenny knows there is a need to have full time cover in ministerial offices, which sometimes affects the complement of staff in terms of making sure people are available beyond office hours, morning and night. It is one of the complications.

I have said I believe there is room for a 10% reduction in costs in the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State. It may involve redeployment of departmental staff back to Departments or units which are particularly busy at the moment or would be helped by an increase in the numbers employed. The flexibility is there for whatever is necessary and I would like to see it happening.

Regarding the question asked on advisers and their role and work, there are guidelines in place under the Acts for the number one can have. I understand two per Minister is the maximum number and that is complied with. In the overall context of a spend of €55 million on day-to-day expenditure and €8 billion on capital expenditure, the availability of independent advice other than normal Civil Service advice was a negotiating imperative of the Labour Party when it joined the Government in 1992. It was a good development and, in the main, has served us well. People can make comments one way or the other on individuals which is not helpful. As a concept it is good and one which has to be properly utilised in the correct way. It is a resource for any incumbent Minister which is helpful and broadens the scope, horizons and policy inputs beyond an internal departmental focus and it is right and proper that it should be that way.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Regarding the 10% reduction in costs the Taoiseach says will now apply to the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State, I am sure it is an issue to which we can return in the course of time to see how it is going. I wish the Taoiseach would take up every suggestion and good idea from the Labour Party as enthusiastically as he appears to have endorsed and absorbed the one from 1992.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore has his own strong commitment to it.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I was asked by a member of the Taoiseach's staff if I had a mobile phone.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The final question I asked the Taoiseach concerned Senator Boyle's——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This has nothing at all to do with this question.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It was a very good idea.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not matter how good the idea was, it has nothing to do with this question.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I would like to hear what the Taoiseach——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest Deputy Gilmore table a question about it.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I would like to hear what the Taoiseach has to say, privately or publicly, about it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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My answer to such questions is that we need all people to work hard in the jobs they have been given. We also need to reduce the cost of Government and I have indicated that a 10% cut in the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State is a way to do that. We need people and political authority, people with political initiative and people running their Departments in that way. I think we should get on with the job. On Leaders' Questions, we have just discussed the huge challenges this country is facing. People who have a democratic mandate should get on with the job that has been assigned to them. We should also ensure that it is done as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Taoiseach given any consideration to a renegotiation of the contracts for advisers from outside the Civil Service in his own Department or in others? Is he satisfied that he cannot find the acquired expertise from within the Civil Service to cover the respective areas he has sought to address? Surely he cannot suggest that is the case? Particular expertise is acquired from within the Civil Service, so surely that would match up with and meet the Taoiseach's respective needs.

Regarding Deputy Kenny's point on the arrangement with the Department of Health and Children, I note he cited figures as well as the secondment of an adviser from the Department of the Taoiseach to the Department of Health and Children. My understanding from the figures is that the expenditure concerning non-Civil Service advisers within that Department is in excess of €900,000 — just short of €1 million. As my party's spokesperson on health and children, I must say that the advice given to the Minister has proved to be of little value in terms of people's real needs and their dependence on the health care delivery systems in this State.

Surely there is a requirement within the overall re-evaluation of the expenditure of public moneys in the Department of the Taoiseach and other Departments to revisit these arrangements holistically to see what savings can be made. Respect and regard is clearly due and must be attributed to people who have given long-term service within the Civil Service and the public service. Without question, they must have acquired the necessary skills and knowledge to match, if not better, that of any of those who are brought in privately.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are many who have taken up advisory positions for many Ministers in different Administrations who have had long-term public service careers. Many of them — from memory, perhaps even the majority, certainly in my party — will have been people with a long-term involvement with the system. They understand how policy is formulated and how one interacts between Departments in order to get work done by undertaking and implementing initiatives. There are also some people who come in from outside who have also been very good.

Certain skills are required to do that job properly. Many have been successful but there is no identikit formula. It depends very much on a Minister's own initiative in the first instance and the ability of those who are employed by him or her to ensure that the Minister's writ runs in the Department of which he or she is the political head. Some have been very adept at that. It is important to point out, however, that there is no room for complacency in any of these matters. People have work to do and they need to get on with it. It must be done as efficiently and effectively as possible. That signal must be sent out and I hope that some of the directives I have given in that respect will send that signal as well.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach clarify the details of the announcement he made in the House yesterday on the pension levy for those within the public service? Given the Taoiseach's first reply to these questions, there seem to be two different strands or tiers of special advisers from outside the Civil Service. Is there a body of advisers to whom this levy will not apply and another body for whom this levy will apply directly within the terms of their contracts? Will the Taoiseach clarify the position? Does he propose to establish equality across the board so that if it is not already accommodated within the existing employment arrangements, the Taoiseach will recognise and appreciate that it should be applied equitably to all advisers engaged within the Department of the Taoiseach and every other Department?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have indicated that some staff are members of Civil Service pension schemes, and for whom separate superannuation arrangements are in place, which is the Department of Finance's responsibility. There are members of staff who are not members of Civil Service pension schemes and they get a contribution towards their pension fund of 11% of salary, which they arrange separately. There are others who may not have any such involvement in pension schemes. Where the pension levy applies, it will apply to those, the same as everyone else in the public service. For those who are not involved in pension schemes, I have indicated that they should volunteer a 10% reduction in their salary.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I welcome the fact the Taoiseach agrees with the concept of programme managers. When I was a Minister, two people came to the Department and I answered a parliamentary question as to whether one of them had access to a mobile phone, such was the welcome for the concept in parts of the House.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about arrangements concerning his own Department and the Department of Finance. He has outlined the use of advisers and programme managers, but my memory is that the Minister still took the ultimate decision. Are firms supplying advice services to either of those two Departments, whereby what is being hired is the corporate entity rather than an individual? The guidelines the Taoiseach described are ones that affect individuals. I am asking about accountancy firms that may be supplying advice on a per diem basis. According to the guidelines, in that instance, an arm's length distance is appropriate between such accountancy services and sensitive international financial decisions.

Perhaps there are no such advisers in the Department of Finance, which may be rich in intellectual energy and whose staff may be proposing models to the Minister all the time. Perhaps the same is true in the Department of the Taoiseach. However, are firms being hired on a contractual basis to give specific advice, which is paid for on a daily basis? If so, what guidelines apply to them? Is the Taoiseach in a position to state that they do not conflict in any way either with the examination of the models or their application?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The questions for my Department or any other Department regarding the role of advisers are specific to individuals. As the Deputy knows, from time to time, firms are employed for their expertise. Various guidelines and rules on public procurement are laid out as to the basis on which that advice would be sought and used within any Department's structure. The Deputy should table a parliamentary question on that matter to the Department of Finance in order to elicit more accurate information.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Arising from the Taoiseach's replies, can we gather that there will be an actual reduction in numbers in the Department of the Taoiseach and other Departments in the course of this year? He referred to some existing members of staff being reallocated to departmental duties. Will that be a clean break situation or will they just get a redesignated title and continue doing the work they are currently doing in the various officeholders' offices?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot give an accurate reply to that question. Similarly to the Exchequer payroll savings of 3%, I have indicated that within Departments and the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State I would like to see a reduction of 10% in the costs of running those offices in whatever way that is required. We must give flexibility to Departments as to how that might happen in particular situations. It may involve early deployment or a reduction in overtime. We need to see a cost saving there so that a signal is sent out that such efforts are being made within the political offices of Departments as well as in departmental offices and agencies generally. We need to see reductions in the cost of servicing these offices. That is my point.