Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position in respect of proposed reform of the gaming and lotteries legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47133/08]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy will be aware, I have previously set out for the House the terms of reference of the cross-party committee, which I propose setting up in order to reflect on and review the report "Regulating Gaming in Ireland". I have gone on record to say that the informal committee represents the best opportunity for identifying options for consideration by Government on the many complex inter-related issues in this area. It offers the best guarantee that the interests of all elements in our society are taken into account from the beginning in an area of important public policy. The Deputy will also be aware of the involvement envisaged for members of his party in that committee, including that of chairperson.

I wrote to the Leaders of Fine Gael and Labour on 2 and 3 October 2008, respectively, to confirm proposals for the formation of the committee. The Leader of Fine Gael responded on 3 October saying that he wished to discuss the matter with his party colleagues and that he would be in touch with me again once he had completed those deliberations. Deputy Kenny wrote to me again on 1 December 2008 to state that his party is willing to participate in the cross-party committee provided that the terms of reference for the committee specifically exclude the issue of the installation of fixed-odds betting terminals, FOBTs, in betting shops.

Likewise, the leader of the Labour Party on 23 October 2008 reaffirmed his party's unwillingness to participate in the cross-party committee unless FOBTs are excluded.

I will now carefully consider whether there is anything to be gained from establishing a committee which is forced to exclude from its consideration a controversial component of the modern gambling environment. I share the misgivings of the Deputies opposite about FOBTs, but I do not believe we can solve any problems associated with them by simply ignoring their existence. We must face up to the challenges and threats, as well as the opportunities, inherent in new technologies and evolving social habits, and not bury our heads in the sand and hope they go away. I will reflect on the responses of the party leaders and will shortly decide on a course of action.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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What is the Government's position on fixed-odds betting terminals, which constitute one aspect of this review? What is the Government's response to the 32 recommendations in the report to the former Minister, Michael McDowell, entitled "Regulating Gaming in Ireland"? Has the current Minister met any representatives of the industry in the context of this review?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has not made any decision on FOBTs, nor has it had any discussions on them. The Government noted the report entitled "Regulating Gaming in Ireland". It was previously suggested before my time as Minister that there would be a cross-party committee to deal with this, chaired by a member of Fine Gael. People then decided that they would discuss this matter, while omitting various issues they did not like. We cannot put our heads in the sand, however, and think these things will go away. There is a valid reason for us to examine all these issues on a cross-party basis. If we cannot do so, then my Department will have to proceed with the legislation concerning aspects of this report. I do not envisage us legislating in favour of FOBTs, but against them, if anything, from what I know. It would be wrong, however, to put our heads in the sand and not discuss all these new technologies. We should discus them with a view to preventing the harm involved and ensuring that they are not prevalent in our society.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Were some bookmakers not given the nod by the present Taoiseach, when he was Minister for Finance, for the introduction of FOBTs on the basis that they would make up the tax shortfall for the racing industry? It was acknowledged within the Government that one could not do something as anti-social at that, however, so the Government suggested an all-party committee and tried to get a Member of the Opposition to chair it. Is the Minister taking us for fools on this side of the House? The one thing that is noticeable about him is that he is always on the side of the angels. Even when the ruse was to legalise FOBTs, the Minister was always careful to say he agreed with Deputies on this side of the House and that he was also against FOBTs. If he is against their introduction, what is the problem and why will he not introduce legislation? He should stop talking about it.

The casino sector needs regulatory legislation badly. The casino report dealt with 100,000 matters. The Minister is now saying that, because we do not go along with him concerning FOBTs, he will not set up an all-party committee even though the great number of issues had nothing to do with FOBTs. It is time to put the charade to bed.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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To the best of my knowledge, there was no nod from the Taoiseach to anyone. I have not been exhorted by anyone in the Government to consider the issue of FOBTs. To the best of my recollection, neither have I met anyone in the industry concerning these issues.

While it is fine for Deputy Rabbitte to tell me to get on with it, we have not changed the gaming and lotteries legislation since 1956, the year after I was born.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It will be 2056 at the rate the Minister is going.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbite was in government. To the best of my recollection, Deputy Quinn, the then Minister for Finance, balked at the opportunity to change the legislation because he could not get all-party agreement. We were trying to achieve a cross-party understanding of how to proceed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I know how the Minister loves us on this side of the House and would never do anything without consulting us.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The FOBT issue is a tiny aspect of the overall matter. As someone who has hardly placed a bet in my life, I would like to have the knowledge of——

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister probably played the little baby Jesus in the nativity play.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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——experts like Deputy Rabbitte, who has more vices than any of us. Unlike him, I do not meet all of the vested interests.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister not consider it somewhat odd that neither he, as the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, nor the Government has an opinion on the recommendations in the McDowell report or on FOBTs? He is inviting submissions. Is it not extraordinary that he does not have an opinion on the matter or is it the case that, while he has one, he will not tell the House?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Government noted the contents of the substantial report. We did not express an opinion at the time because the previous suggestion was for a cross-party committee chaired by one of the Deputies' own. When I took up this office, I understood that there was agreement until Deputy Rabbitte decided that he would pick out FOBTs, which no one wants, and not be a part of the committee. He is like a young child who takes his ball away during a football game.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Why can the Minister not give the House his opinion?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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He is trying to deny the existence of FOBTs. I want to know more about them, for which reason I would like to see them discussed in an all-party committee.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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No one is stopping the Minister.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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He should go ahead. He is the Minster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I assure Deputies that, if Deputy Rabbitte wants to take his ball home and end the game, we will proceed with the legislation as quickly as possible.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister stated that some months ago.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have been a Member of the House for approximately the same time as the Minister. In those years, I have noticed how he usually consults me and wants cross-party co-operation before doing anything. Who does be believe he is fooling? If we are all against FOBTs, what is the problem? I am not advocating that they be ignored. Rather, I am advocating that they be outlawed. However, the Minister tells the House that he would not be seen in discussion with vested interests of any kind.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is a brief supplementary question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I will not go back over it. From listening to the Minister one would believe him to be the little boy Jesus in the nativity play. Butter would not melt in his mouth. There is no way that he would be found talking to vested interests. Why will he not introduce the law and get on with it? We will legislate. The casino sector needs legislation.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I will not introduce the law because it was my understanding upon entering this office that there was a cross-party agreement on a cross-party committee.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Never. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will tell the Minister that. I have held this position consistently.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Fine Gael Party nominated three people, including a chairperson, Deputy Barrett, to be a part of it. Then Deputy Rabbitte acted like a child whose toy had been stolen and took his football home.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I was right. The Minister agreed with me.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We must move on to Question No. 8.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I have no problem with moving the legislation forward.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Clearly the Minister has a problem. He will not tell us his opinions.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated earlier, different political parties on this side of the House since 1956 have balked at the opportunity to change the legislation. I include the Labour Party in that statement.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is too pure for this life and I am too venal.