Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Question 67: To ask the Minister for Transport his views on recent figures showing a drop in the number of people taking buses in the Dublin area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46487/08]

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Dublin Bus passenger numbers have increased from 134.2 million in 2000 to 147 million in 2007. This increase was achieved despite the introduction of the Luas and improved suburban rail services in the greater Dublin area. Dublin Bus is the largest operator of bus services in that area. In the course of the past year, passenger numbers on its services have declined by approximately 4%. Passenger numbers on suburban rail and the Luas are also experiencing a drop in demand. Various reasons are suggested to explain this situation. These include the general economic downturn, reduced shopping in the city centre area and fewer migrant workers living in the city centre area. This drop in demand is despite the marketing efforts of the company, which has implemented a campaign through the media and directly to households advocating the benefits of travelling by bus and the value for money which is available.

The cost and efficiency review of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann, carried out by Deloitte, is expected shortly and I understand that it will advise that, while many aspects of the operations of Dublin Bus are efficient, there is further potential for efficiency gain to attract more people on to the bus. On the basis of the ultimate findings and recommendations of the review, Dublin Bus will be mandated to target overall operational efficiencies including changes to its network to simplify routes and eliminate duplication, to improve timetables and to improve co-ordination of services on common route corridors and to introduce other customer orientated initiatives.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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One point is the gridlock in Dublin city causes a problem for buses as well as for everyone else and consequently, bus travel speeds are reducing all the time. In many cases, it would be quicker to walk, if possible, and it certainly would be much more efficient were one to cycle. I accept there are reasons for the decline in usage and fewer migrants using public transport appears to be an issue. Nevertheless, the modal shift that Government policy has been promising has not happened. The key point is the Minister's policies have failed and, as I have pointed out previously, the Circle Line buses have been taken off the route. More than 30 buses are sitting idle and are parked forever because Dublin Bus has put them out of business. This simply is not good enough. New thinking is needed in the Department as the Minister's policies have failed in this regard.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I am unsure whether the Deputy asked a question, as that sounded more like a statement.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It means the Minister's policies are not working.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I imagine the Deputy is asking whether the Minister agrees with him.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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No, I do not. The Deputy is aware the Department has introduced the Dublin Transportation Authority Act, which now is in place and will be rolled out. The question of competition in the market is dealt with in that Act and will be dealt with in the next national public transport plan.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Deputy O'Dowd may have inadvertently misled the House when he referred to a private company. I understand that a large part of the fleet in question is engaged in coach work and other tasks in hand and that the services it no longer fulfils were in addition to its core business.

Obviously, the 4% decline is disappointing. Does the Minister, who mentioned the network, envisage that the frequency and reliability of services could be increased? When operating a major public transport system, a major problem arises in respect of what to do with the fleet during off-peak hours. People have asked questions on this subject, which affects both private and public fleets. How does one cope during off-peak hours? Has the Department made proposals in this regard? I refer to ways to increase the usage of the fleets, particularly in urban areas.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Undoubtedly, the frequency and more particularly the reliability of a service are extremely important. I refer to frequency in the sense that one can predict when a bus will come. Once this is available to customers, people are encouraged to use the service. For example, on some of the quality bus corridors, QBCs, the service is reliable, there is the same headroom between each bus and so on. When such certainty exists, people use the service and in some cases this can result in an increase in usage of up to 40%. Consequently, there is a need for major change in the manner in which Dublin Bus operates. There is no question about that. Matters such as the frequency of the service, the operation of the networks, co-ordination of the services along the core corridors, direct routing and additional cross-city services all will be extremely important, as will real-time information in order that people will know when and where a particular bus will come. All such measures will be important in efforts to increase usage.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I wish to facilitate brief supplementary questions from Deputy Broughan, followed by Deputy O'Dowd.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister rightly referred to the Dublin Transportation Authority, which is of great importance to public transport. When will it become operational? Members spent a considerable amount of time discussing the legislation in committee rooms and so on. Are the provisions pertaining to planning, that is, all new development will have the integrated public transport function at its centre, effectively operational since the Act became law? The Minister referred to how the fleet could be better utilised and it also must be expanded. Would the Minister consider a differential fare structure, with much lower fares applying during the off-peak period to encourage people to use buses?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister stated that Dublin Bus must change, which is true. Does the Minister agree there must be a much more proactive policy from Dublin Bus to use the private sector at peak times to use spare capacity? It does not make sense to have the buses to which I referred parked on a lot somewhere in County Kildare while at the same time, Dublin Bus buses, in their original livery colour and with 1997 registrations, are providing public transport on the streets of some British cities. I have photographs of this.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The question of what to do during off-peak hours certainly is an issue. The Deputy's suggestion certainly could be considered by Dublin Bus. Bus Éireann uses quite a number of private subcontractors throughout the company. The off-peak issue also raises the question of work practices in Dublin Bus that must be addressed in respect of how one uses one's resources. As for Deputy Broughan's point, rather than more buses, capacity has increased by well over 30% and passenger numbers are falling. Consequently, it is not a question of not having the buses. Perhaps it is a question of not deploying——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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For five or six years, between 2000 and 2005, not a single bus was bought.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister to reply.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I can show the Deputy the figures. Bus capacity has increased by 30%.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, remembers this. For a major portion of the lifetime of the Government, it refused to buy a bus.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister to respond.

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Capacity has increased by 30% while passenger numbers are falling.

The simple question that must be asked is whether the buses available are being deployed to the best effect. The answer is "No" and this must be addressed to increase the numbers. Deputy O'Dowd's earlier point on congestion certainly is one of the causes of the problem of the service's unreliability. I refer to the scenario in which no buses come for a long time and then two or three come at once. Congestion is a factor that is outside the control of CIE, Bus Éireann or Bus Átha Cliath.