Dáil debates

Thursday, 4 December 2008

Priority Questions

Pupil-Teacher Ratio.

3:00 pm

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if he will confirm that the overall average primary school class size of 24.1 which obtained in 2005-06 and 2006-07 according to a previous parliamentary question will remain the same in the 2009-10 school year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44589/08]

Photo of Batt O'KeeffeBatt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Class size data for primary schools is compiled by my Department on an annual basis. The source of this data is the annual census of primary schools. Data for each school year is made available when returns for all schools in respect of the year in question have been processed. Schools will not be making returns in respect of the 2009-10 school year until after 30 September 2009 and, allowing for obtaining returns from all schools and the normal checking and processing of this data, the position will be known in summer 2010.

However, since the changes to the staffing schedule for primary schools announced on budget day restore the basis of allocation of teachers to schools to the position that applied in the 2006-07 school year, it is a reasonable working assumption that average class size in 2009-10 should be quite similar. Schools have flexibility in the way in which they assign pupils and teachers to classes and the Department does not allocate teachers to specific classes or age groups. That is why precise information to enable compilation of the national average position is not available until the position in individual schools is captured through the census.

In any discussion of class size and classes where the number of pupils exceed the average it is important to understand how the main staffing schedule sets out to treat schools in like circumstances in a fair and consistent manner. The current allocation is based on an average of 27 pupils per teacher and the fact that schools make individual choices in assigning teachers to class groups. With over 20,000 individual classes spread across all schools throughout the country there will always be differences in individual class sizes.

I have no difficulty in setting out for this House or for the public generally what the final impact will be on the overall changes in aggregate teacher numbers in schools for the 2009-10 school year and this applies to final average class size as well. I reiterate that prudent management of Government finances is vital at this time of global economic uncertainty when tax revenue has fallen so significantly. Even with the budget measures in place there will still be a significantly increased borrowing requirement in 2009.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

When the country was able to afford it we reduced the basis on which primary teachers are allocated to schools from being based on an average number of pupils per teacher from 35 pupils down to the current level of 27 pupils. The change to a new average of 28 pupils per teacher has to be viewed in that context. It means primary schools will be staffed exactly as they were during the 2006-07 school year during which they operated well.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his reply but I should out of courtesy tell him that it was not the priority question that I originally put down. That question, which was ruled out of order for reasons that I understand, noted that the Department has consistently refused to answer questions from the time I became Labour Party spokesperson on education. Out of courtesy to the Minister, I advise him that the matter is coming before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We must deal with the question before us.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Perhaps when we have dealt with that, we might receive the answers a journalist can get by putting down a request under the Freedom of Information Act. Out of courtesy to the Minister, I advise him that I have raised with the Committee on Education and Science the manner in which his Department deals with replies. I did not expect him to write the answers but he should have someone read them because they are quite offensive.

Photo of Batt O'KeeffeBatt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the point that the Deputy is making and respect his opinion. I hope, however, he can appreciate that we have a difficulty in this regard. The Department has received 4,300 written and oral questions, which is 13% of the total number of parliamentary questions. The amount of man hours required to answer them is substantial. I am the first to admit that we have to make improvements. We want to develop a more effective procedure and we are working on our information technology systems to increase our efficiency. If the Deputy wishes to raise certain issues, I am willing to arrange for him to meet officials of my Department so that we can rectify whatever difficulties may have arisen.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Before I call Deputy Quinn, I remind him that his original question was not in order. The matter will be considered next week by the long-standing and prestigious committee of this House, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. We should not debate the matter in advance of that committee's deliberations.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I appreciate that. I will make two observations to the Minister. When the beef tribunal was in full flight, its chairperson stated that if Ministers had answered questions honestly, openly and accurately in the Dáil, the tribunal would never have been necessary. When the Departments of Post and Telegraphs and Social Welfare experienced telephone chaos, the numbers of questions put down by frustrated Deputies exploded because their constituents could not get a straight reply from the Departments in question. The Department of Education and Science will continue to attract 13% of parliamentary questions if it does not answer them properly.

Photo of Batt O'KeeffeBatt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of the number of questions that are tabled. They reflect a drawback in our system. Since I have taken on this position, I have assigned a dedicated line for Deputies to contact an official in the Department when they have particular issues they want to have investigated. That official is assigned to facilitate Members of this House. I hope we can thereby dramatically reduce the number of questions submitted to my Department.