Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 1: To ask the Minister for Education and Science the number of uncertified sick days taken by teachers in 2007-08. [44581/08]

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The information requested by the Deputy is normally provided on a school year basis.

The average level of uncertified sick leave combined for the total cohort of primary teachers was 1.98 days and 2.81 days for teachers in secondary and community-comprehensive schools.

The average level of uncertified sick leave, for which substitution cover was claimed, combined for the total cohort of primary teachers was 1.31 days and 1.6 days for teachers in secondary and community-comprehensive schools.

The number of days uncertified sick leave taken by primary teachers in the 2007-08 school year was 60,128. Teachers in secondary, community and comprehensive schools took 48,136 days.

In the 2007-08 school year my Department paid for substitute cover in respect of 39,921 days uncertified sick leave taken by primary teachers, and 27,730 days taken by teachers in secondary and community and comprehensive schools.

Teachers employed by vocational education committees are paid by the 33 individual committees. The payroll costs incurred by the committees, including the cost of substitution, are claimed on a monthly basis from the Department and the Department does not have a breakdown of the specific data for VECs. Therefore, data provided on the VECs is estimated on the basis that the cost, days claimed and the level of absences are 56% of the total of the secondary and community-comprehensive schools. The 56% figure is based on relative teacher numbers in the different second level sectors. On that basis, the estimated number of days uncertified sick leave taken by teachers employed by vocational education committees was approximately 27,000 and the estimated number of days paid for by vocational education committees was approximately 15,500.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In trying to make sense of all that, can I conclude that a teacher in this country misses on average one or two days a year due to uncertified sick leave?

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is correct.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is that the reality? The Minister has been putting about for the past month or so that there is a major problem of teachers taking "sickies" left, right and centre——

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——but the information Deputy Batt O'Keeffe has given this House is that somewhere between one and two days on average is lost every year. Is he aware that in his Department last year close to nine days on average were lost per official?

I want the Minister to apologise to teachers for the outrageous slur he and his Department have put about the place for the past month or so as a means of attacking teachers and their representatives. Will he apologise now? The information the Minister has given this House completely demolishes the outrageous spin that he has been putting out in the past month.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Can I make two points? I do not write editorial headlines. Any information put out was on the basis of the facts.

The facts are that I have a serious difficulty with the cost of substitution days, whether for uncertified sick leave, sick leave or other substitution. The costs have grown enormously. I do not have the funds to meet those costs. It is my job to point out exactly the number of days that are lost.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is one day a year.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not one day per year.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Near enough.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is over two days.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is a priority question.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is 1.9 days.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is 2.81 days in the second level and 2 days in the primary, and they teach 163 days of the year.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am glad to hear Deputy Finian McGrath has found his voice.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will give the facts as they are. The facts are there has been a substantial growth in the cost of substitution, sick days and uncertified sick leave, and we do not have the funding to meet those costs. That is the point that has been made.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Would the Minister agree there is not a problem of absenteeism among the primary and secondary school teachers of this country?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Of course, on the average of the Civil Service, by and large there is no difference across the board.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister.

The Minister stated he deals with facts that are put out by himself or his Department. I refer him to the following comment he made on 20 November last to the Joint Committee on Education and Science, that "on Mondays throughout 2008 there were in excess of 12,500 teachers absent on uncertified sick leave and that there was a similar number absent on Fridays". Does he now withdraw that comment, which deliberately misled the members of that committee?

Added to the slur is the dirty little war that the Minister has fought over the past month with Irish teachers who are doing their best and who have one of the lowest rates of absenteeism of any workforce in the country. Will the Minister withdraw that comment and, in doing so, will he be man enough to apologise for the outrageous slur he put on the record of a committee of this House?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Before the Minister responds, I remind the Deputy of the clear precedent that he may not accuse a Member of the House of being deliberately misleading.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will hear the reply.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have pointed out in every statement I have made that I am astounded by the quality of the teachers in this country and the throughput of education.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Were you wrong?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In terms of what I said, on Mondays throughout the school year, there were over 12,500 days——

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

You said on one Monday. It was throughout 2008.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That was for 2007.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister let his Department spin the issue subsequently.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Allow the Minister to conclude.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In fact, I did the reverse. I asked my Department to contact all the education correspondents to rectify the mistake once I realised that it had been made. If the Deputy was to ask any of these correspondents, he would find that they were contacted to correct any misunderstandings that might have arisen.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Minister apologise to teachers for the remarks he made?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I call Question No. 2 in the name of Deputy Quinn.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will not allow Deputy Brian Hayes or anybody else to impugn me or imply that I made aspersions against teachers.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister will obey the Chair in the same way as every other Deputy.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I did not make these remarks. They were made by the Minister.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy made the remarks today. He implied that I am taking issue with teachers.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask the Minister to reply to Question No. 2.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Why not correct the record?

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will you withdraw it now?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No, I never said that.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister, no less than anybody else, will obey the Chair.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would stop digging if I were the Minister.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have always attested to the quality of our teachers.