Dáil debates
Wednesday, 3 December 2008
Order of Business
10:30 am
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 21, Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 20, Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 51, motion re Agriculture (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are no proposals to put to the House.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Tánaiste outline what arrangements are in place for the briefing of Opposition parties in regard to the Lisbon treaty? I asked yesterday for a debate on this before the Taoiseach goes to the Council meeting next week. I understand that has been agreed for Tuesday, but I should like to know what the format will be and whether it is proposed to give Opposition leaders or their parties some analysis of what the Government is now calling the elements of a solution. I should like to know what this is about, because the Government is now briefing the Finnish Government and will then brief the German Government and Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg. We have had no consultation, good, bad or indifferent with the Government, here in this House, where this matter will have to be dealt with in the future.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What is the Tánaiste's view of a decision arising from a court hearing last week, where judgment was given against a person who was struck off from being entitled to be a director and is still the chairman of Dublin Port and Docks, which processes 45% of the country's imports and exports? Is it a position with which the Tánaiste is happy——-
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That matter is not strictly in order on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——and does the Tánaiste expect to make a decision in regard to this matter?
We have heard a good deal of talk from Government about the world class facilities we have in the health area. I have before me a notice from a person who has severe difficulties and has been called for an X-ray by a major hospital for November 2009. Is this in keeping with the Government's commitment under the existing HSE legislation——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy knows that is not in order under the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——to give people a proper, efficient and professional health service?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of the debate on Tuesday, I assume it will be a matter of statements, but the format will be for the Whips to finalise. As the Deputy knows, this is on the basis of the sub-committee's report to the Houses of the Oireachtas. In normal circumstances the outcome of the discussions at Heads of State level is often debated here. However, I shall ask the line Minister about this, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, and advise him that the leaders of the Opposition parties are anxious to be briefed prior to that discussion on Tuesday.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will that include a clarification on what the "elements of a solution" means?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I must point out, it is not a precedent for the Government to always discuss matters with the leaders of the Opposition. I will advise the Minister for Foreign Affairs of their anxiety to be fully briefed. I assume that in the normal circumstances if he can afford them that opportunity, he will do so. However, I cannot pre-empt the discussions that are taking place with the Taoiseach and the Heads of State. As Members know, the Taoiseach is anxious, prior to the meeting next week, that he would be afforded a longer opportunity to brief his counterparts before the discussion that takes place in Brussels during the week.
On the other issues, one is in process and I will not discuss it. The other issue is outside the auspices of the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an issue of national importance as we are becoming the butt of some anti-European pressure. The Government should be able to inform the parties here as to the strategy it intends to adopt to deal with the situation, as there are serious consequences to it. Discussion will take place on the report of the committee, but we need to know what the Government proposes to do when the Taoiseach goes to Brussels next week to explain to the Heads of State what Ireland's strategy will be. Is the issue to be left alone or how is it to be dealt with?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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In normal circumstances, the Taoiseach would discuss the matter on Tuesday at Cabinet and would take into consideration the views of all the Members of the House. The Taoiseach will return within a day or two and on Thursday night I will discuss with him the Deputy's anxiety for a private briefing for leaders of the Opposition and will get back to the leaders as quickly as possible on that.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That should be beforehand.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with Deputy Kenny on the necessity for briefing on the issue of the Government's response at the European Council in respect of the Lisbon treaty. I attended a meeting this week of leaders of Labour and Social Democratic Parties throughout the 27 member states, including a number of Heads of Government. There was some speculation as to what the elements of the Taoiseach's response might be at the Council meeting, whatever the basis for that speculation. The speculation was on matters new to me. There is, therefore, a necessity for briefing on the issue.
This House established the Moriarty tribunal in September 1997. Under its terms of reference, it is required to report directly to the House through the Clerk of the Dáil. Members will be aware that on Sunday, The Sunday Times carried a report that two newspapers in this jurisdiction were threatened with court injunctions last weekend if they published material reported to be contained in the draft report of the Moriarty tribunal. I understand that one newspaper had to pulp a large number of copies of its newspaper that had already been printed.
Yesterday, a second newspaper, based in Britain, suggested that the Government was concerned about certain findings in the draft report and that this could entail a further battle through the courts between the Government and the tribunal. The House is currently awash with rumours about what may be contained in the draft report and about what is going on. Therefore, I seek clarification on some points.
First, will the Leas-Cheann Comhairle inform us whether any communication has been received from the tribunal by the House as to when the final report will be published? Has he any information as to what is going on? Will the Tánaiste inform us whether the Government collectively, or any individual Members of it, have seen draft sections of the report? Is it true the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources issued a statement to some newspapers on Friday night to the effect——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am anxious to give the Deputy some latitude, but that is not in order on the Order of Business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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With respect, the tribunal was established by the House. It has been suggested to me that one Department, the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, issued an initial statement on Friday night stating that the Government had rejected the findings of the tribunal. It would be remarkable for such a statement to have been issued, particularly since the tribunal has not yet reported to the House. Is the Government considering legal action to block publication of the report in its entirety or some parts of the report?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I wanted to give the Deputy latitude, but that question is not appropriate to the Order of Business. It would be appropriate as a leader's question and that opportunity is available to the Deputy. I am advised, however, that neither the Ceann Comhairle nor the Clerk of the Dáil have had any communication on the matter.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to ask the Tánaiste——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Unless the question is within the confines of legislation, it will not be in order.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not want to get into a procedural row, but this is a matter that is proper to the House and, with respect, appropriate to the Order of Business. The tribunal was established by the House and reports to it. There are rumours all over the place about what is or is not in the report and what the Government's reaction will be. Has the Government or any individual Minister received the report? Is it true that the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources issued a statement on Friday, which it subsequently withdrew, stating the Government had rejected the findings of a tribunal that has not yet reported to the House?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is absolutely right that this is a matter that is proper to the House. However, it is not proper to the Order of Business. With regard to the action of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources or his Department, it would be appropriate to put that question to the line Minister. I call the Tánaiste on the matters that are in order.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I seek the Chair's guidance on this and would be careful on this issue. The tribunal is not answerable to the Government, but to the House. Therefore, the Government has not seen any report nor has it commented on a report. The proper processes and procedures will be followed to the nth degree. I will certainly not speculate on anything that may or may not have been, rightly or wrongly, in the newspapers. It is appropriate that we continue in the vein in which we have done for many a year and that the tribunal report will be made to the House. I would not care to comment on that matter.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Do I take it from that reply that the Tánaiste is saying no Minister has seen a copy of the draft report? Is that what I understand her to be telling the House?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Tánaiste wish to reply to that?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not really. What I want to say is the Government has not dealt with the report.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Did the Tánaiste see it or not?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has not dealt with this report or seen it. I do not wish to comment on the matter, as it is a matter for the House and not a matter for the Government. The clear procedures are there and on that basis it would be inappropriate for me to speculate on matters printed in the newspapers.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste could answer "yes" or "no".
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In her request to the Taoiseach for briefings for Opposition party leaders, will the Tánaiste ensure the request reflects——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask the Deputy to speak up as the Tánaiste has some difficulty hearing.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I can hear what the Deputy is saying, though I might not want to hear it.
12:00 pm
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That fits. Nevertheless, I would like clarification with regard to her request to the Taoiseach with regard to briefing on the matter of the Lisbon treaty and the outworking of the recent committee's deliberations. Will the Tánaiste request that this briefing be open and available to all the Opposition party leaders, that is, the leaders of Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, and not simply to those parties that were Government allies in the promotion of the Lisbon treaty in the recent referendum?
I refer to the revelation this morning, on the publication of the unemployment figures, to the effect that more than 16,000 additional people are signing on in the month of November. Given that this crisis clearly is growing, will the Government accommodate an opportunity for a full debate on the floor of this Chamber to address the issue of the growing unemployment crisis and the need for strategies to tackle this very important issue?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is a debate on unemployment promised? I call the Tánaiste.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the first issue, I certainly will advise the Government. It is appropriate to note that no finality has been brought to the issue of Lisbon. On the other issue, while no debate is promised, I am sure this matter can be discussed among the Whips.
Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I seek information on two items of promised legislation. First, I refer to secondary legislation in respect of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2008. A piece of secondary legislation enacting the provisions on below-cost selling of alcohol and advertising of alcohol was to be introduced during the summer by the Minister and would have included the issue of bonuses on loyalty cards for the purchase of alcohol. As this has not been forthcoming yet, when will Members have sight of this secondary legislation? Second, No. 17 on the list of expected legislation, the sale of alcohol Bill, which I understand to be a consolidation Bill, was due to be published by now. When will it be published and introduced to the House?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation will be published in January 2009. As for the secondary legislation, I will ask the Minister to correspond directly with the Deputy.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Given the recent assault on the elderly by the Government, I ask the Tánaiste to defer the National Council on Age and Older People (abolition) Bill indefinitely, as the elderly need every possible protection.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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When will that item of legislation be introduced?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Tánaiste for an update on the promised legislation in respect of estate management companies, whether the Government finally has concluded its format, whether final and full discussions have taken place with the Attorney General and whether agreement has been reached. I wish to raise two further matters.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will revert to the Deputy. The Tánaiste, on the estate management legislation.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, it has not been finalised. A considerable amount of work has been done and the Government hopes to have it as quickly as possible because many Members wish to have this matter expedited.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On the same issue, that is not the information Members have been given previously. Members had been informed its status had been advanced from that position and that the Attorney General is dealing with it. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform was to deal with it and Members had requested that it be moved from the latter Department because it never would have emerged from it.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There has been considerable progress on that basis by the Attorney General on all the issues that pertain to a number of Departments, some of which arise from the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission. Some of those recommendations may not require legislation and can be incorporated either in existing legislation or by way of regulation, while others will require new legislative measures. I hope this matter can be brought to finality very quickly and all the Ministers have put together the heads required to produce a composite piece of legislation.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Why does the Tánaiste use the phrase "very quickly" when Members have been discussing this matter for the past three years?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I dealt with my responsibilities in this regard on Friday night and I hope that through the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government, the Cabinet will be able to bring this matter to conclusion quickly.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I presume that means before Christmas.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I have enough bother.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Durkan wishes to raise two further matters.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Have the heads of the electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill been cleared by the Government yet? If not, when are they likely to be cleared? Finally, since the hairshirts are being handed out liberally to the public, will it be possible to send out a collective hairshirt to the criminal fraternity? I do not wish to go through the entire list of legislation.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure the House is relieved to hear that.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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However, as Deputy Gilmore already has noted this morning, a plethora of legislation has been promised for a long time in respect of the criminal justice area. The Tánaiste should indicate to the House whether it is intended ever to move forward any such legislation in a meaningful way that would give a clear message to the criminal fraternity outside this House.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should indicate when such legislation will be introduced.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There are a considerable number of promised legislative items that are under the aegis of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. As for the Deputy's first question, it will be next year. The heads of the Bill have not been signed off by the Government. I am unsure of the legislative items pertaining to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform that are on the A list. The criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill is being dealt with on the A list. While I do not know which ones in particular——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There also is a list of such Bills on the C list.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The items on the C list will not reach the A list unless Members can get out of here.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Such items also can be converted by expediting selected Bills.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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In light of the serious exodus of people to Northern Ireland as a result of the exchange rates and VAT rates——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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No doubt legislation is coming.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Undoubtedly. This also is causing further job losses in the Border region. While I have raised this issue recently, I will do so again because this is an emergency. When can the Tánaiste bring forward the industrial development Bill in order that Members can discuss this issue?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste, on the legislation.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise another two issues.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Perhaps they can be taken together.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The other issue pertains to the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill. This morning, my party leader raised a case——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We cannot discuss individual cases now.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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——in which someone was not getting an appointment——
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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——until next November.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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While I am anxious to give latitude to the Deputy, he cannot deal with individual cases on the Order of Business.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The proposed health information Bill also is important. It will get the truth about what is happening in the health sector.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste, on those three items of legislation, namely, the industrial development Bill, the health and personal social services Bill and the health information Bill.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As for the industrial development Bill, it has been approved by the Government and I will try to introduce it as quickly as possible. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with shopping. On the issue of the health and personal social services Bill——
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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This issue pertains to jobs as well as to shopping.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It pertains to facilitating the IDA and increasing grant aid, which is extremely important.
On the second item of legislation, no date has been indicated. On the third item, there is no date as consultations have just taken place.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach informed the House yesterday that the Cabinet has passed the legislation to take the medical cards from the over-70s. Has this legislation been fully drafted and when will it be published? Did the Cabinet approve an item of legislation that is ready for publication? Will it be published this week?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As has been advised to the House several times, including approximately half an hour ago, the legislation in question will be printed this week.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Will it be published this week?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to raise two items with the Tánaiste. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs has made various statements to the effect that private pension funds would be allowed some relaxation of their rules in respect of being fully funded in the context of the current financial difficulties. Second, people purchasing an annuity would be allowed to defer the purchase of such an annuity for up to two years. Will Members have an opportunity to debate the position of private pension fund holders?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is a debate or legislation appropriate to that area promised?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Many people are really scared, particularly by what the Tánaiste stated in her various interviews.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On that issue, the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 will be debated in a few minutes time. The Minister then can account for the inaccuracies in the comments of the Member opposite. As far as I am aware, there is no proposed debate. However, it is a matter for the Whips to decide whether one should take place.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I understand Deputy Burton wishes to raise another matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am going by the comments made by the Tánaiste in various interviews and the transcripts thereof.
Second, I refer to the Irish Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008, and the final section of the scheme which, in conjunction with the Irish Banking Federation, takes into account the banks' corporate social responsibility. I am sure the Tánaiste is aware that many families face repossession and eviction——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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An appropriate question Deputy, please.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——by banks and by one bank in particular, which brings people to court every week.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I have asked whether this issue can be debated in the House or whether some arrangement be made to have this matter discussed whereby people could be given a six months to two year holiday on repossessions?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there a debate promised on the issue of bank foreclosure?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Two banks are stated in the newspapers this morning as doing this, and I commend them.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Burton. The question is put well.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There is no promised legislation. As Deputy Burton will be aware, the Finance Bill is going through the House at present and I am sure these issues can be raised in the context of those discussions.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I refer to two pieces of legislation. Is there an intention, through legislation, to bring forward a national waiver scheme for refuse charges? This follows from the Ombudsman's visit to the Oireachtas committee yesterday where she described the current system as a shambles.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there promised legislation in that area?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware of legislation being promised.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There is no such promised legislation.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I can ask the line Minister to contact Deputy Lynch.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Good. What is the other matter?
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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The other matter refers exactly to the line Minister, who I have not seen in the Chamber in quite a while, or for Leaders' Questions for that matter. This is the issue of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 which is two and a half to three years waiting to come into this House. It came before the Seanad a number of weeks ago. Could the Tánaiste indicate when it will come before Dáil Éireann?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not appropriate to comment on it.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Indications have been given during the Order of Business on several occasions since I was elected to this House that the Bill would come before us in the term in which I raised this question.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It now looks like we will not see it until 2009.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is before the Seanad at present and it would be the Minister's intention to bring it to this House as quickly as possible afterwards.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Legislation governing the horse and greyhound racing fund has run out. New regulations must come before the House to renew it. Is it the intention of the Minister to renew the fund and, if so, when?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is there promised horse and greyhound legislation?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to revert to the Deputy.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is it intended to introduce legislation on taxi licensing and regulation? I understand Deputy Frank Fahey, Chairman of the Joint Committee on Transport, conveyed to the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, the heads of a Bill which would allow for a moratorium on the issuing of taxi licences for a period of up to four years. Is this intended?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is legislation or regulation promised in this area?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing promised.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Will the Tánaiste amend company law in order to facilitate people in semi-State companies, particularly Dublin Port, where a decision has been made regarding restricting directors from participating in semi-State companies? Will she bring forward legislation?
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Will the Government take action regarding the chairman of Dublin Port, who has not filed accounts since 2004 or 2005 and who is a restricted director? Is it Government policy to allow a person who is restricted as a director or who has not filed accounts with the Revenue to continue as chairman of a semi-State company?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The matter is before the courts.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As Deputy Hogan will be aware, that is not an appropriate question to put. I understand there is no legislation promised in that area. That concludes the Order of Business.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Will no action be taken?