Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Question 91: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the consideration she has given to the implications of the proposed removal of child benefit in respect of 18 year olds for the participation of poorer children in their final year in secondary school or in further education. [39946/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Child benefit is paid for all children up to the age of 16 years and also for children up to the age of 19 years who continue in full-time education and for children with a disability. Child benefit is tax free and is not affected by the level of income of the claimant.

The rates of child benefit have increased very significantly since 2001, by over 200% for the first and second child and by over 185% for each other child. In the same period, total expenditure on child benefit has increased by 297%.

In the context of the current economic circumstances, it has been necessary to take a number of steps to reduce overall public expenditure in order to restore order and stability in the public finances. Spending on social welfare payments at some €19.5 billion in 2009 forms a substantial portion of public finances. Expenditure on child benefit will reach €2.53 billion in 2009. In these circumstances, it has been necessary to limit spending on child benefit by lowering the upper age limit that currently applies from 19 years to 18 years. The impact of this measure is being phased in, with payment for existing and future qualifying children being halved from January 2009 and payment stopping from the 18th birthday from January 2010. The vast majority of leaving certificate students will not be affected by this change because over 70% are under the age of 18 years when they sit their leaving certificate examinations. Many others turn 18 within a few months of their exams.

It is recognised that any changes in child benefit entitlements may have implications for family budgets. Accordingly, in order to assist the more vulnerable in society, special alleviating measures are being introduced for those in low income and social welfare dependent households. A compensatory payment of €15 is being provided during 2009 and 2010 for any week during which those affected by this measure are receiving a social welfare payment, which includes an increase in respect of the 18 year old child or a family income supplement payment which includes payment in respect of that child. The compensatory payment will also apply where the child in question is receiving a disability allowance payment in his or her own right. In addition, households affected by the measure who also qualify for the back to school clothing and footwear allowance will receive an extra payment of €215, bringing the total payment in respect of such a child to €520. These transitional measures will cease in January 2011.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister has not answered my question. I asked her a straightforward question about the consideration she has given to the implications of withdrawing child benefit for 18 year olds. The reason I asked that question was because she, of all people, should know the implications of withdrawing child benefit for 18 year olds, given her experience in the Department of Education and Science. She should know that a minority of children from low income families actually stay on in school until the leaving certificate. She should also know that there are huge financial pressures on teenage children in low income families and, unfortunately, many of them — if not the majority — cannot stay on in school for financial reasons. The Minister knows that at this stage, because of transition year, a great many leaving certificate students are over 18 years. Education should not end at 18 anyway and all efforts should be made to ensure that children from low income families remain in the education system past leaving certificate and into further education.

The Minister also knows that the evidence from research indicates that leaving certificate students who participate in part-time work do so to the detriment of their academic achievement. The Minister knows all of this from her previous experience as Minister for Education and Science and in view of those facts, I am asking her why she decided to target the teenage children of low income families. Will the Minister tell the House on what basis she thought those families could take a hit of €38 a week?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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We appreciate it is always very difficult for any family to have to take a financial hit.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister does not seem to appreciate it. What is the basis for the hit?

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Minister to reply without interruption.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, when one is faced with the current economic situation and financial pressures, and given that the budget of my Department is €19.5 billion, we are under pressure to find money to protect the people who will lose their jobs and their families. The money had to be found somewhere. We looked at the figures and realised that the Deputy is incorrect. The vast majority of students are under 18 years when they sit the leaving certificate——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Many are over 18. Does the Minister want them to drop out of education?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Certainly not. I wish to correct the Deputy's statement. In the leaving certificate cohort of 2007, some 35,900 were under the age of 18 and 14,000 were 18 years. Many of those would have turned 18 between April and June of that year so, in effect, they would have completed their second level education. That is not completing education, which I fully accept. The Deputy is also incorrect to state the vast majority of people are dropping out of school. The completion rates in school are now 86%, which is also very——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The majority of low income teenagers are dropping out of school before leaving certificate.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, without interruption.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is incorrect. It is not the majority.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It is the majority in any disadvantaged area.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Minister to continue.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Increasingly, we are seeing that the completion rate of people in second level schools is at 86%, which is encouraging, although of course it would need to go higher.

It is also the case, although I would like to see it otherwise, that schools that qualify for disadvantaged status for the most part do not offer transition year. Many of the students who would be completing their education at 18 years of age, with the opportunity of hopefully continuing on to third level education, would also qualify for third level grants. These are the people about whom the Deputy expressed concern. They will not have to pay registration fees and may also qualify for maintenance grants. Given the changes in child benefit, we are at least getting them through their second level education and hopefully they will then qualify for the third level education grants as well.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister is being fundamentally dishonest. There is a sizeable number of teenagers who are still in school after the age of 18 years. In view of what the Minister knows about educational disadvantage and the fact there are scandalously low levels of participation in education up to leaving certificate in low income families and disadvantaged areas, on what basis did she decide that low income families can take a hit of €38 per week?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be aware that the low income families are the people who are protected for next year and the year after.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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They are not.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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This is pathetic.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The compensatory factors which have been introduced to support those people who are on social welfare——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister is being dishonest. There are transitional arrangements for two years.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shortall——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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After the two years, how do they make up the €38 per week?

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Can Deputy Shortall hear me? My job is to chair these proceedings. We are over time on this question. I must ask the Deputy to have respect for the Chair when she is called to order, whatever about for myself.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister——

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will Deputy Shortall do that, please?

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister is being dishonest in her replies.

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister give a short reply because I need to move to the next question?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that. The last paragraph of the reply I gave to the Deputy set out exactly what the compensatory measures were. The final line was——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What happens when they are finished?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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If I may, the final line of the answer states: "These transitional measures will cease in January 2011". The figures I have given show that approximately 10,000 students are 18 years of age when doing their leaving certificate. All others are under the age of 18 or have just reached it coming up to the examinations.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It is too bad for them. Is that what the Minister is saying?