Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 90: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the progress made on her announcement in July 2008 to achieve targeted savings of €25 million by tackling fraud; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40021/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Since July 2008, additional control measures have been introduced with a view to achieving savings of €25 million from the detection or avoidance of fraud. These measures target the jobseeker's allowance and benefit schemes, one parent family payment and child benefit schemes.

This year, the option to review payments by electronic fund transfer was removed for new claimants for jobseeker payments. They must attend in person at the post office each week, thus confirming their continued residency in the country. Their claim is automatically suspended where two consecutive payments are not collected.

Control activity has been across a number of schemes this year. For example, at end September 2008, some 289,000 reviews has been carried out, as well as 2,300 employer inspections, yielding savings of €337 million. In addition, the special investigation unit is undertaking more regular interviews of jobseeker recipients, particularly those with high risk ratings. The savings realised since July 2008 are €5.7 million. Lone parent recipients with earnings are targeted for review, and a special project in Kilbarrack yielded €388,000. Child benefit mailshots have been increased from half-yearly to quarterly intervals. It is expected that 1,200 cases will be terminated with potential savings of €13 million.

I am committed to ensuring that social welfare payments are available to those who are entitled to them. However, I am also determined to ensure that abuse of the system is prevented and dealt with effectively when detected. In this regard, the control programme of the Department is carefully monitored and the various measures are continually refined to ensure they remain effective.

My Department will continue targeting activities to achieve the maximum return on its efforts and will place increased emphasis on eliminating fraud and abuse of its schemes to achieve the necessary savings this year and into 2009.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Looking at the figures cited by the Minister, I do not see how they will reach an extra €25 million in savings by the end of the year. If it is €13 million in total in the six months for child benefit, €5.7 million from July until now in respect of another payment, and €388,000 from a special lone parent project, even allowing for some more from the €5.7 million for this month and December, I do not see how it will reach €25 million. I wish to ask the Minister about controls to achieve savings. I welcome the fact people will have to attend post offices in person, which will obviously reduce some elements of fraud. I draw the Minister's attention to the reply to my freedom of information request about social welfare fraud. According to the reply, in the period from August 2004 to December 2004, one officer assigned to the Garda National Immigration Bureau generated savings of €1.468 million by the termination of about 234 claims for 146 customers. It must be questioned whether there are far more savings to be made from an immigration perspective.

The Minister will also be aware of the different statistics for fraud as between non-nationals and Irish nationals. What extra action does the Minister intend to take in addition to this €25 million saving to address the issue? I understand it is approximately 13% for non-nationals as against 1% for Irish nationals.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is correct that it is important to continue to have strong control measures. As money becomes more scarce, we must ensure that it is targeted at the right people. A total of 620 staff members throughout the country are involved in control in some form. The Deputy referred to the rule for signing on each week as having some impact. Other segments being targeted are the 18 to 25 year olds who are regarded as a particular risk group by our special investigation unit. People who have had their claims suspended are also investigated. The group involved in the employment action plan but who are still on the live register are constantly being reviewed, as also are those on the job seekers and child benefit schemes.

I referred to the amounts we intend to save on the child benefit scheme this year. We regularly send out letters to families receiving child benefit to ascertain if they are resident in the country. If a reply is not received within 21 days, payment is suspended after 42 days and then stopped completely if no further information is received from them. We also carry out a check with schools etc. to ensure that the information supplied by the claimant is valid.

A survey conducted on child benefit a few years ago among 500 Irish nationals showed that the fraud rate was about 1.7%, but the fraud rate among a sample of 500 non-nationals was almost 14% so this is a particular group to be targeted. This month, the Department will be writing to 7,000 non-national families with children resident in Ireland and 2,300 with children who are not resident in Ireland.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is this particular emphasis on child benefit a new initiative? How much money has been lost in the past few years?

Of the cases referred to the Office of the Chief State Solicitor for 2005, 2006 and 2007, there does not seem to have been one case of child benefit fraud referred by the Minister's Department. If there was a potential for several millions of euro in savings from July to date, this begs the question as to how much could have been saved each year for the past three years, which are the statistics available to me. It seems clear that the majority of cases referred to the Office of the Chief State Solicitor are with regard to jobseeker's assistance and jobseeker's benefit. Is it the case that there is more fraud in that area? From what the Minister said, it seems there has been quite a degree of fraud in the child benefit area, yet it does not appear that one person has been prosecuted. Can the Minister explain this?

Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are out of time on this question. I ask the Minister to reply.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

When tackling fraud one must use methods of prevention, detection, deterrence and debt recovery. All of those methods can be used before ever resorting to prosecution.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Prosecution is the best deterrent.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Every effort is made at all stages to try to recover any moneys which have been overpaid. So far this year, 235 cases of general claims have been sent to the Chief State Solicitor's office. We do not wish to go down the road of taking prosecutions against people but debt recovery is probably the most important. We will continue to ensure that good control measures are in place.