Dáil debates
Tuesday, 21 October 2008
Priority Questions
Employment Support Services.
2:30 pm
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Question 107: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the improvements she will make to the back to education allowance and the back to work enterprise allowance in order that unemployed people can avail of these supports within a few months of their signing on the live register. [35949/08]
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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A range of education and employment supports are available to persons in receipt of welfare payments to assist and facilitate their return to the active labour force. These measures include the back to work allowance and back to education allowance.
The back to education allowance is designed to encourage people on certain social welfare payments to improve their skills and qualifications and, therefore, their prospects of returning to the active work force. It enables qualified people who have been getting a social welfare payment to continue to receive a payment while pursuing an approved full-time education course.
In general, to qualify for participation an applicant must be at least 21 years of age and must have been in receipt of a social welfare payment immediately prior to commencing an approved course of study for at least six months for a second level course and 12 months for a third level course. The 12-month requirement is reduced to nine months for people participating in the national employment action plan, NEAP. People who are awarded statutory redundancy may access the scheme immediately, provided an entitlement to a relevant social welfare payment is established prior to commencing an approved course of study.
The back to work allowance scheme is designed to assist the long-term unemployed and other social welfare recipients to return to work. There are two strands to the scheme, the back to work enterprise allowance for the self-employed and the back to work allowance for employees. The scheme is designed to support people who would not otherwise be able to return to the workforce for financial reasons. To qualify for this allowance, the person must be in receipt of a qualifying payment for a specific length of time immediately prior to commencing employment.
The requirement to be in receipt of a relevant social welfare payment for a minimum period has always been a feature of the back to education and back to work schemes, which were designed to recognise the special difficulties that people who have been unemployed for a long time can face when attempting to gain a foothold in the labour market.
I will continue to monitor the schemes but I believe that, overall, they continue to meet their objectives and that the time requirements ensure that limited resources are targeted at those who are most in need.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Does the Minister accept the budget should be judged on two issues, whether it is fair and whether it helps the economy and jobs? The public has given a clear answer on the first and the budget is clearly not fair. With regard to jobs, not only is the Government making matters more difficult for people who find themselves unemployed in terms of cutting their entitlements, but the budget has done nothing to help them to get back into employment.
Does the Minister accept the priority must be to ensure that people who become unemployed now do not become the long-term unemployed of the future? What is the justification for the time lag between a person becoming unemployed and being able to avail of the back to education or back to enterprise allowances? Surely in this day and age the priority must be to try to enable unemployed people to get back into work, enterprise or training as quickly as possible. Why does the Minister maintain those excessively restrictive rules?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct in saying that the overall aim of the budget and of the Government is to ensure that people return to work. The responsibility for that rests with all of us. She will have recognised that the budget contained specific measures for small companies and new start-up businesses, and taxation measures that come under the ambit of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, all of which are important. The budget's overall taxation package will also ensure that we can continue to attract investment into the country. Measures such as the research and development grants ensure that Ireland remains an attractive place for people to come and provide employment. The Deputy is right that employment is the key and that was the overall consideration.
Education is also key. Back to education is just one of the areas in which we can support people. It is encouraging that approximately 8,000 people are participating in that scheme. In early September, with the help and support of Brian Mooney of the Institute of Guidance Councillors, all the facilitators throughout the country were invited to Dublin to make them aware of the latest developments in education so that they can actively advise people as to where they can turn to improve their skills and education.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I believe that was a very positive contribution. It is also very important that the back to education scheme facilitates people on social welfare. The Deputy will be well aware that a few years ago there was serious abuse of the scheme, not, let it be said, by unemployed people——
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I call the Deputy if I may, Minister, please.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——but by people using Ireland as a base to try to get this scheme.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The qualifying criteria for these schemes were designed in a different era for a very different problem. Why must a person who becomes unemployed wait at least 12 months before being permitted to avail of the back to education allowance in order to attend a third level course? Surely an unemployed person should be encouraged in every way possible to avail of further training to enable him or her to apply for new jobs in the future.
What on earth is the justification for requiring an unemployed person to wait for at least two years before he or she has an entitlement to the back to enterprise allowance? Surely we should be doing everything we possibly can to ensure that unemployed people get back into education and back into enterprise as quickly as possible. There can be no justification for those time lags. Why will the Minister not reconsider those?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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There is a justification for having timelines. For example, we do not want someone who has just completed his or her leaving certificate examinations drawing the dole.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister knows that is not what I am talking about.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It does and can happen, but we do not want it to happen.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I am not talking about the age limit, I am talking about the time lag.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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They could then remain unemployed——
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Why does the Minister force people to remain unemployed for longer than they need to be?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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An t-Aire without interruption, please.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That is what she is doing.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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We do not want to have a student complete the leaving certificate in June——
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Nobody is talking about that.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——and be unemployed until October which would be three or four months.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister knows that is not what I am talking about.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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No, but a person could be unemployed for a shorter period——
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I am not talking about 18 year olds.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——and yet not be a legitimate person to benefit from the back to education allowance.
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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What about 40 year olds?
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What is the reason for the time lag?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That would be one reason for having a longer timeframe. People who get statutory redundancy can access it immediately.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What about the people who do not get statutory redundancy?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That is one group that can.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Many people do not get statutory redundancy.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The people who are on the employment action plan can get it after nine months. It is important that we ensure it is targeted. I am open to keep this under review. We have seen abuse of it in the past. I am afraid that if we shorten it too much, particularly to three or four months after doing the leaving certificate, we would end up with the wrong people getting it.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Government has done that for people who get statutory redundancy.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The time for this question has concluded.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Statutory redundancy applies to people who have been in employment——
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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——and not people who have been in full-time education and who are only using——
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Many people losing their jobs now unfortunately do not get statutory redundancy.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The time for this question has expired.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister is penalising them further by forcing them to wait.