Dáil debates
Thursday, 9 October 2008
Priority Questions
International Agreements.
3:00 pm
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the details of the recently signed agreement with respect to visas between Ireland and the USA; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34092/08]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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At a meeting in Washington on 24 September, the United States Deputy Secretary of State, John Negroponte, and I signed a memorandum of understanding establishing a new working holiday programme between our two countries. The agreement represents a significant and positive development in our migration arrangements with the United States and will help foster the growth of new and lasting contacts between young people from both countries. It represents an important investment in the long-term health of this vital bilateral relationship.
I am pleased to report that the agreement has been warmly welcomed by community, sporting and business organisations in Ireland and the US, including the GAA, the Ireland-US Council and representatives of the Coalition of Irish Immigration Centres and the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform.
The new agreement contains the following key elements: the United States Government will make available as many as 20,000 visas for Irish citizens each year, which will permit them to work and travel in the US for a period of 12 months; the Irish Government will reciprocate and allow up to 5,000 US citizens to work in Ireland for a period of 12 months; and both US and Irish citizens will be free to secure employment on arrival in each country. It will not be necessary to arrange employment prior to departure. In order to qualify for the programme, participants must hold an Irish or US passport, as the case may be, and should be in post-secondary education or have graduated within the preceding 12 months. The agreement will come into effect on 1 November 2008 and we hope to see the first visas issued shortly thereafter. Further details about the scheme and how to apply are available on the website of my Department at www.dfa.ie.
The new working holiday programme represents an important contribution towards securing greater migration opportunities between this country and the United States, an approach endorsed strongly by the Dáil in an all-party resolution passed on 6 November 2007. At the same time, the Government is also actively pursuing the two other elements of our three pronged approach to this area, namely, a solution for our undocumented citizens and new reciprocal arrangements to provide long-term visas for Irish people wishing to work in the United States and US citizens interested in working here. Finding a solution for our undocumented citizens remains a key priority. In my meetings in Washington last month with US political leaders, I stressed the importance which the Government continues to attach to this issue. I also held a meeting with the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, ILIR, in New York, at which I announced the allocation of an additional $50,000 to that organisation, bringing total Government funding for the ILIR to $235,000 since 2006.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This side of the House welcomes arrangements with any country for the exchange of citizens. Can the Minister confirm whether applicants need a post-secondary qualification? I may have misinterpreted his comments, so I would appreciate clarification.
When does he anticipate the exchanges to commence and how can one apply for a visa? Will advertisements be placed in newspapers? Will the visas be valid on a 12 month basis from the date of application or will they all commence on a certain date? Will individuals be able to renew their visas or reapply after an interim period?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated in my earlier reply, we expect the agreement to come into effect in November. People will be able to seek details of the programme from my Department. Initial applications may have to be sent through the US Embassy in Dublin.
The definition of "post-secondary student" encompasses all those currently enrolled in a recognised third level degree programme. Students at vocational colleges, including institutes of technology, will also be eligible to apply if they can demonstrate that their studies will ultimately lead to a degree from a full-time post-secondary academic institution. In other words, the student must be able to demonstrate that his or her diploma is intended to lead towards enrolment in a degree programme. That creates possibilities for HETAC and FETAC in terms of the national qualifications framework.
In an exchange of correspondence between myself and the Deputy Secretary of State, the latter has indicated that the US State Department will apply flexibility to the administration of the scheme. Those engaged in trade apprenticeships will have to demonstrate that their vocational studies could in time lead to the awarding of a degree in, for example, construction studies. Those who have graduated more than 12 months prior to their application will not be considered eligible.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is important that the Minister ensures the details of this scheme are published as soon as possible. I am concerned the programme may be somewhat exclusive in that someone who wants to take a year out after completing his or her leaving certificate will not be able to apply for a visa.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the case.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is regrettable because students often prefer to take a year out after secondary school to travel abroad.
If US exchange students cannot find employment, will they be entitled to benefits in this State? If they have prearranged employment but this ceases during the 12 month period, what will happen?
Has any progress been made in regard to the undocumented Irish? Do we know the number involved and is there hope for their families? Deputy McGinley and others have raised this issue on many occasions.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is widening the scope of his question.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am responding to the issues raised by the Minister. I am anxious to remain in order but I wish to facilitate the Minister.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is his military background.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Is there hope for these people?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ireland is the first country to achieve a working holiday agreement with the US. I do not want to understate the significance of that. Negotiations were held over several years and the scheme is not open ended in the sense that it is available only to those who are in post-secondary education or within 12 months of graduation from third level education.
A similar agreement has been in place with Australia since 1985. Approximately 17,000 Irish people went to Australia last year and 13,000 travelled the previous year. The J1 working holiday scheme, which is valid for the summer months, was taken up by approximately 6,000 Irish citizens last year, whereas only 290 US citizens came to Ireland on the programme.
In our view, this is just the first step of a wider approach. Our intention is to develop strong bilateral frameworks with the United States, a country with which we have strong historical ties. Having dealt with work permits in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I found it strange that we did not have reciprocal arrangements with the United States from a cultural, social or employment perspective. Given that generations of Irish people have emigrated to America since before the Famine, some sort of bilateral framework should be put in place.
We are pursuing the idea of a renewable work visa arrangement with the US. To that end I met with senior Senators and Congressmen on my visit to increase the prospects of their arriving at such a conclusion. However, that would not include the undocumented Irish, who represent the third prong of our approach. This will await the outcome of the presidential election in the US. We have continued to lobby in this regard. I met with the Congressional Friends of Ireland, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Pat Leahy, the Chairman of the relevant House sub-committee, Zoe Lofgren, and many others to try to get consensus on this issue.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the reason for the Government's change of policy and facilitation of the US-India nuclear agreement at the Nuclear Suppliers Group; the implications for the future of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty; and the discussions which preceded the Government's decision to abandon the view on this issue which it possessed. [34248/08]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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When the US-India civil nuclear co-operation deal was originally agreed in principle between President Bush and Prime Minister Singh in 2005, and during the lengthy and complex process which followed, Ireland was to the fore in raising concerns and asking questions in regard to its impact on the global disarmament and non-proliferation regime. However, we noted that the deal would extend the scope of IAEA safeguards over Indian nuclear facilities, and also made clear that we understood the strong reasons which led the Indian Government to seek a secure and plentiful supply of energy to address poverty, promote development and combat climate change. It was the consistent policy of the Government, reiterated several times in this House by my predecessor, not to make any final decision until all elements were on the table. We also made clear that we would take into account the range of views among other Nuclear Suppliers Group, NSG, members, in particular those with a similar approach to disarmament and non-proliferation issues.
After a lengthy delay due to domestic Indian political factors, the issue finally came to a head in the late summer, with meetings of the IAEA board of governors on 1 August and of the NSG on 21 to 22 August and 4 to 6 September. At the NSG, Ireland, which played a leading role among a group of like-minded countries, was active from the outset in seeking clarifications and conveying concerns about the proposed exemption of India from the NSG's guidelines on civilian nuclear trade. We put forward an extensive series of proposals aimed at improving the text and meeting our concerns. During this period, we had extensive contacts inside and outside the NSG at both political and official level with the United States, India and numerous other states. It became increasingly clear that a large majority of NSG member states, including several countries whose concerns are usually similar to those of Ireland, were in favour of granting the exemption. I recall that the Nobel Prize-winning director general of the IAEA, Dr. ElBaradei, also strongly supported the deal.
On 5 September, in response to demands within the NSG from Ireland and a few other states, India issued a significant statement reiterating its key positions on disarmament and non-proliferation. These include a unilateral moratorium on nuclear testing and strong safeguards against nuclear proliferation in third countries. On this basis, and following a number of further changes to the text of the NSG decision, Ireland reluctantly joined the consensus in the NSG on 6 September. Ireland and several other states made it clear that we expect India to honour all of its commitments, and that any breach of them would require the NSG to review its decision. We will continue to work to strengthen the non-proliferation treaty in the lead-up to the next review conference in 2010.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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If I might deconstruct that reply, I will put my questions simply. Will the Minister give details of who precisely contacted the Irish Government, as is reported in The Irish Times today, and at what level, with the aim of taking away one of the building blocks of Irish foreign policy? The Minister mentioned Dr. ElBaradei, but Dr. ElBaradei's predecessor Dr. Blix, in visiting the Minister's predecessor at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, clearly stated that the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty was very important. Those of us who are interested in the international significance of this responded to his suggestion that a secretariat be appointed for the treaty. On several occasions at Question Time I have asked the Minister's predecessors about the implications for Ireland's non-proliferation treaty of agreeing to the US-India nuclear agreement, and at every occasion the Minister's predecessors have said they have the gravest concerns. What the Minister is really saying now is that because only two countries supported him in the late stages, possibly Austria and New Zealand, he decided it was best to roll over.
What is the difference between India and the five existing nuclear powers — those countries that regularly breach Article VI of the non-proliferation treaty? The discipline they have with regard to the IAEA is exactly what is on offer from India. A sixth nuclear power has been created and the non-proliferation treaty has been abandoned, or crucially weakened. As well as that, the Minister must remember the review conferences in 1995 and 2000, when we joined with other countries to create the New Agenda Coalition. The 2005 review conference was not a success, but we continued working on. Now the Minister has thrown in the towel. Could he give the reasons for this to the House? What pressure was applied by Condoleezza Rice? Did President Bush phone the Taoiseach? The Minister's predecessor will remember that the Indian Prime Minister sent a special delegate here to pressurise people into saying "Yes". Finally, perhaps the Minister will give details of the multi-billion-dollar arms contract between the US and India which followed within days of the agreement.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not fair to use pejorative language such as "you have done this or that", "you have thrown in the towel", or "rolled over".
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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No, I am giving the facts.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Those are not the facts.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy talks about Hans Blix, for example.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As Dr. Blix said when interviewed in 2006, there are several aspects to the US-India deal. There is the non-proliferation aspect, the environmental aspect, and the energy security aspect, the latter two of which the Deputy has completely ignored in his commentary. These are legitimate issues that we can no longer ignore in the global climate in which we live. He said the rule was adopted in the NSG in order to induce states such as Israel, India and Pakistan to give up their nuclear weapons status——
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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And why did the Government not hold that line?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——or deter others from seeking nuclear weapons. In return, they would have access to the most advanced civilian technology. He went on to say it has been clear for many years that neither India nor Pakistan, nor Israel would walk away from their nuclear status and that under these circumstances the NSG rule has become a punishment instead of an inducement. The question, then, is whether anything can be gained by getting away from this rule in terms of keeping the lid on proliferation, and Dr. Blix's answer to this was "Yes". This is the person the Deputy quoted. He stated: "It is true that India, with a billion people, can reduce the pressure for oil and gas consumption by expanding its nuclear industry". That is good for India's energy security and good for the environment, as it will help stem global warming. These are positive aspects of the deal.
What did Ireland try to do, as one small country among many others? The Deputy mentioned the New Agenda Coalition. Where was the New Agenda Coalition?
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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This is not one small country. We are coequal with 44 others.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Where was the New Agenda Coalition, of which the Deputy spoke earlier? I will tell the Deputy. Of the seven members, only two — Ireland and New Zealand — worked hard to improve the deal. Two — Brazil and South Africa — were strong supporters on the basis of their overall relationships with India; Sweden and Mexico were broadly neutral and made clear they would not block a deal; and Egypt is not a member of the NSG. Prior to the deal, six Indian nuclear reactors were under the IAEA safeguards. Under the deal an additional eight will be covered——
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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What about all the others?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——bringing the total to 14.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and all future civilian reactors will also be covered. We said reluctantly that these are demonstrable improvements in terms of bringing plants under civilian safeguards.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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However, they breach the non-proliferation treaty. The Deputy knows that.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy briefly again.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the Deputy's disappointment that a consensus was arrived at, but we worked to achieve discernible improvements to the agreement. The final text will help ensure that the non-proliferation treaty remains the cornerstone of disarmament and non-proliferation and that India is held to its commitments, with observation and monitoring on an ongoing basis. The transfer of sensitive technologies will be ruled out entirely once negotiations are concluded on the provisions of paragraphs 6 and 7 of the NSG guidelines, including a provision that all states engaging in nuclear commerce with India must notify other NSG members of each and every transfer. These are improvements we brought to the text.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Everyone knows that under Article VI of the non-proliferation treaty, as the Minister's predecessors agreed, there was supposed to be nuclear disarmament. Countries ignored that. The Minister has now added a sixth country to the five who are free to abuse the treaty. What credibility does he now have? He is allowing, for example, eight nuclear installations in India not to be under anybody's control. He tells the House that monitoring of 14 out of 22 installations is better than nothing. His predecessor, Frank Aiken, would not be satisfied with something that is better than nothing. What credibility does he have now when facing the Iranian question? He will take up a strong position on a country that has not demonstrably breached any of its obligations with regard to international treaties.
I am sorry the Minister does not like the phrase "rolling over".
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let me quote Daryl G. Kimball, for example, who is one of the major opponents of this treaty. He said: "The Irish Government did all it could. In my view no other country played a more energetic role in identifying the problems with this deal." That is not capitulation. It may be fanciful for Deputy Higgins to engage in that kind of hyperbole and rhetoric.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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However, it does not really add anything to the debate.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Minister abandoned the treaty.