Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is proposed to take No. a12a, motion re sittings and business of Dáil — on the Supplementary Order Paper — No. 12a, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services [Vote 40] back from committee, and No. 24, Broadcasting Bill 2008 [Seanad] Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. a12a and 12a shall be decided without debate and, in the case of No. 12a, any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a12a and 12a without debate agreed?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We are being asked to agree to a motion relating to the arrangements for next week's business. Yesterday, the Opposition parties were approached to agree a certain arrangement in respect of the ordering of business next week in order that the budget and the Government's scheme relating to the bail-out of the banks might be accommodated on Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively, of next week. We were subsequently informed that the scheme had been prepared and a briefing was arranged for my party's finance spokesperson. However, I am still unsure when the scheme will be brought before the House.

On Monday the Government of Denmark announced a scheme relating to the banks in that country and details of said scheme have been made available. On Wednesday the British Government did likewise and made available the essential details relating to its scheme. It is nine days since the Government introduced legislation relating to the bail-out of the banks in this country, but the details of the scheme relating to that bail-out have not yet been brought before the House. If a week is a long time in politics, it is an eternity when it comes to the banks and the financial markets. Before I agree to the proposal before the House, I wish the Minister for Health and Children to clarify when the scheme will be introduced.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Gilmore. The matter of parliamentary questions for written reply not being taken on Tuesday next was not discussed with the Whips. Perhaps the Minister will indicate if the position is different.

As the Taoiseach noted yesterday, there will be a defining moment next week. The budget will be introduced on Tuesday and the Taoiseach will be travelling to Brussels on Wednesday to engage in a softening up exercise in respect of the European governments regarding the aftermath of the referendum on the Lisbon treaty. We understand that it may be the Government's intention to introduce the scheme on Wednesday afternoon next. Clarification is required in respect of this matter. While it is absolutely necessary to bring the scheme before the House, Wednesday would be the wrong day on which to do so. I informed the Taoiseach yesterday that if the Government wants to arrange a sitting for Friday, Saturday or Monday, the Opposition parties will facilitate its wishes in that regard.

We recognise the importance of this matter. We also recognise the importance of our being in a position to ask the necessary questions so that the scheme might, in the national interest, be properly framed. We should be made aware of the Government's intentions. It would not be right to take this important legislation on the day following the introduction of the budget when the Taoiseach will be in Brussels. Will the Minister clarify the position and indicate why parliamentary questions for written reply will not be taken on Tuesday? I understand that the latter issue was not discussed at yesterday's meeting of the Whips.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The outworkings relating to the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008 — one of the memoranda issued last week referred to it as "the Credit Institutions (Protection) Bill 2008" — must be presented in detail to the House. All the facts pertaining to the Minister for Finance's intentions regarding the new powers vested in him must be set out. What is proposed in terms of time will not allow for the full scrutiny that is necessary. I support the case put by colleagues for an extension of the Dáil sitting during the coming week and I expect a positive response to that request. This is an extremely important issue and we must get down to properly debating and understanding the nitty-gritty of what is involved. I ask that additional time be provided.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Parliamentary questions for written reply will be taken next week. Information in that regard is provided on the Supplementary Order Paper.

Intensive work is under way on the regulations to give effect to the Government's guarantee. The Government discussed the matter yesterday and it is clear that the regulations must meet with the approval of the European Central Bank and the European Commission. It would be pointless to discuss regulations that did not have the approval of both institutions. That is the current position.

The Minister for Finance met Opposition spokespersons last night. We had hoped to arrange for the Dáil to meet tomorrow to discuss the regulations, but I do not believe it will be possible to do so. It is the intention of the Government, particularly the Minister for Finance, to bring the regulations before the House as quickly as possible. The Minister has taken on board many of the suggestions made by members of the Opposition last week. As everyone is aware, we are in uncharted waters. The purpose of the intervention was to secure the stability of the Irish banking and financial system for the benefit of all the country's citizens. Given the complexity of what is involved, a significant effort has been made by those whose responsibility it is, namely, the Central Bank, the Department of Finance and the Attorney General, to draft these regulations for submission to the ECB and the Commission. I understand they were submitted yesterday after the Government had considered the matter. The Minister for Finance will stay in touch with Opposition spokespersons and the Dáil will discuss them at the earliest possible opportunity. We are all anxious to do that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Might that possibly happen on Monday?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal regarding Nos. a12a and 12a agreed? Agreed.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I was about to say it is great to see the Minister, Deputy Harney, back. The only person missing in order to have matters as they used to be is the Taoiseach's predecessor.

When Deputy Harney says it is the Government's intention to bring the Bill forward as quickly as possible if it is cleared by the ECB and the Commission today or tomorrow, may we take it the Dáil might meet on Monday in order to devote proper and adequate time to deal with this matter separately from the budget and from the Taoiseach having to deal with heads of government in Brussels?

Will the Minister give us an update in regard to the fact that the ECB has reduced interest rates by 0.5%? We do not want a situation where Irish banks are profiteering on the backs of taxpayers. This affects tens of thousands of householders. Two banks have announced they will pass on the interest reduction to their mortgage payers. That is absolutely appropriate and welcome. However, it should be clear that this is the first test of the Government under the new regime and the legislation we passed last week. We are now deeply involved in the banking sector. We must see that the interests of taxpayers are protected. It should be made clear to the banks that this interest rate reduction must be passed on to those tens of thousands of extremely hard-pressed mortgage payers in the shortest possible time. When the Minister replies could she tell the House whether we know the extent of rolled-up interest there is in these banks?

I welcome the publication of the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill or fair deal Bill. According to reports on the media this morning, this Bill might not become effective until the middle of next year. There are thousands of people who are exceptionally hard-pressed in terms of paying nursing home bills. Can the Minister advise the House when the Bill will be taken here? Can she guarantee there will be sufficient time allocated to debate it given that all Deputies in the House will want to have a say on it?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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On that point, may I speak after my party leader?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must call Deputy Gilmore first.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There are two matters I want to raise. One relates to the matter Deputy Kenny raised, namely, the matter of the banks passing on the reduction in interest rates to their customers. There is a second matter I want to raise. What approach should I take?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy may ask both questions. We must deal with the scheme coming before the House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with Deputy Kenny regarding the reduction in interest rates. That all of the main central banks in the world co-operated yesterday is unprecedented. It is the first time we have seen major international regulation and control of banking. The mortgage holder, the business that has a loan from a bank, and the customers of banks should benefit from that. It would be unthinkable for the banks not to pass on that reduction in interest rates to their customers. The Government should direct the banks here to do so given that the relationship between Government and the banking system is entirely different from what it was.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That will be before the House tomorrow. We cannot go into that now.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The second matter that I want to raise relates to information of which we were made aware this morning. I refer to the Private Residential Tenancies Board and the fact that 100 cases have been struck down because the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government improperly, inappropriately and, as it turns out, illegally, appointed two county councillors to the board of the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask questions on legislation.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We are dealing with the Order of Business. I want to ask that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government come into the House today to explain that decision. Cronyism is not new in Fianna Fáil but we now have incompetent cronyism——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now. The Deputy knows very well that it is out of order.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to know whether the Minister will come to the House to explain why these appointments were made and account for something that has caused quite serious problems for the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on the Minister to answer in regard to the matter raised by Deputy Kenny.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy's question on legislation?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must move on.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy may ask about that.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should keep to questions on legislation. I must move on.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is out of order.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On which issue?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The issue raised by Deputy Kenny.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is it the one that was in order?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is correct.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will call the Minister if the Deputy does not proceed.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On the issue of the Government using its new-found leverage in regard to the banking sector, will the Government ensure that the Minister for Finance insists that the banks pass on the full 0.5% decrease in interest rates to customers? Further, will the Government insist that local authorities which are directly under the control of Government through the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government pass on the 0.5% decrease in interest rates to those who are dependent on local authority lending agents, corporations, county councils and so on for their mortgages to purchase their homes, recognising that those who are so dependent cannot get a mortgage in the commercial sector and need that decrease more than most?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point, just as Deputies Kenny and Gilmore did, and neither of them was in order either. The Minister must deal with the matter now.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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In regard to the matter of passing on the interest rate cut, liquidity is important for banks and so too are customers. There is good competition in the banking sector for depositors and for mortgage holders and I expect the reduction will be passed on to the customers of banks. Two banks have already indicated that and I am certainly hopeful the others will do so.

In regard to the question of the Dáil meeting on Monday to discuss the issue, I do not want to give a commitment that the Dáil may meet on Monday and find we cannot meet that commitment. That would lead to confusion. It is the Government's intention that the Dáil will discuss this matter at the earliest possible opportunity. The Minister for Finance will be in touch with Deputies Bruton, Burton and other Deputies in regard to this matter over the next couple of days and as soon as he has had a response from the ECB and the Commission.

In regard to the appointments made in June, they are prohibited under section 169 of the relevant Act and were, therefore, ultra vires. That matter was brought to the attention of the Minister recently.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Is he on the naughty step?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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In fairness, the Minister was not advised at the time of the appointments and corrective action is being taken.

On the fair deal legislation, it is the intention to have a thorough debate in this House. It is a major piece of legislation. It essentially deals with support for people in private and public nursing homes on an equal basis. It is also a mental capacity Bill. It takes on board the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission. It is modern legislation which is intended to deal with the issue of diminished capacity. That is why it has taken so long to draft. I will give it the time it requires in this House and the Seanad in order that we can have a good debate. I hope it will receive the support of all parties.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister answer my question pertaining to county councils and the 0.5% decrease in interest rates?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow that to happen.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I wish to address the nursing homes issue.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I think I have already dealt with it.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has not dealt with the matter.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Bannon.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister spoke about the banks and other financial institutions——

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the acting leader has cleared up the matter.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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——but has not addressed the sector which is fully under the Government's control.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow Deputy Bannon to speak.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Greens are beginning to fade with regard to responsibility and accountability.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister ensure the county councils will pass on the full 0.5% decrease to those who depend on local authority agents for their mortgages?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow Deputy Bannon to continue.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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There was nothing in the last budget to protect or manage our heritage resources. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government seems to be unaware these are finite. Sadly, I do not anticipate much in next week's budget but ask the third-in-command when we can expect the heritage fund Bill to come before the House.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I do not have a date at present.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There are no funds.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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The Housing Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2008 is before the Seanad. When can we expect it to come before the Dáil?

I have asked about the property services regulatory authority Bill on a number of occasions and believe the Attorney General still has to decide whether a single or an omnibus Bill will be brought before the House. Will the Minister indicate whether it will be a single or an omnibus Bill and, if she cannot, when does she expect the Attorney General to make his decision?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I understand the property services Bill will come before the House this session. Obviously, the Seanad must conclude its deliberations on the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill before it can be discussed here. In regard to the Deputy's question on what is called the multi-units Bill, it has not yet been approved by the Government.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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While I welcome the fact that the Minister published the nursing home legislation and gave it to us before she held her press conference, this is not the Bill originally promised. Serious concerns have arisen and I fully support those who have called for a debate on the matter. In regard to constitutional problems and the issue of liens on family homes, does making it optional——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise that issue on Second Stage or table an amendment on Committee Stage.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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——mean that if people do not apply for it, their loved ones will be thrown out of the nursing home?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows what to do. She is very experienced.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Serious concerns have arisen——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can discuss the matter on Second Stage and bring forward an amendment on Committee Stage or even Report Stage.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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——that it will be resource capped, in other words, subject to the moneys available.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Three options are open to the Deputy but this is not one of them.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Serious issues have arisen.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I do not want to be unhelpful when I say the Bill, as drafted, is exactly in line with the commitments made and that nobody can be adversely affected by it. In other words, nobody currently in nursing home care can have his or her contribution reduced as a result of the legislation.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Currently, but what about the person who will go into care in the future? What about those who are now being forced to apply to avail of this family home exemption?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not in order.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Nobody is being forced to do anything. It is optional.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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What if they cannot pay?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is my way or the highway.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter can be discussed on Second Stage, Committee Stage or Report Stage.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the publication of the Nursing Home Support Scheme Bill and hope it will be brought before us as quickly as possible.

I wish to raise several other issues of relevance to the Minister in charge today. When will the adoption Bill come before the House? Given the lack of information from the HSE, will the Minister tell us when the health information Bill, now in section C of the Government legislative programme, will be introduced? I cannot understand why it is being delayed. Similarly, when will the nurses and midwives Bill be introduced?

The Minister's former leader gave us an absolute guarantee that legal costs would be controlled but the legal costs Bill remains far away. Is there any intention to bring it forward?

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The adoption Bill will be brought forward this session, as will the nurses and midwives Bill which will be sent to the Government shortly. The health information Bill will be brought forward during the latter half of next year at the earliest. The legal costs Bill will be brought forward next year.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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On promised legislation, we all agree with the Minister that we are in uncharted waters.

Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Sinking.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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In the light of the forthcoming budget, where stands funding for the Disability Bill——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot deal with the issue of funding for the Disability Bill.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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——and the promised sectoral plans? Will the necessary funding be made available to put in place the sectoral plans?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss that matter now. I wish we could but we cannot. The Minister on the Disability Bill.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The Disability Bill has been enacted. I think the Deputy is referring to the assessment of needs. We will have to await the Budget Statement from the Minister for Finance before we can comment any further on the issue.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We will be waiting.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Without breaching confidentiality, I can tell the House that additional resources will be made available in the budget for disability services.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister has told us that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, did not receive the advice given in June to the effect that he was not entitled to appoint county councillors to the Private Residential Tenancies Board. I again ask if he will come before the House today to explain these appointments——

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He is here but cannot be seen.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——and tell us what advice——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way of raising that matter.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——caused him to appoint a Fianna Fáil councillor from County Donegal and a Green Party councillor from County Monaghan to the PRTB.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that matter. In fairness, the Deputy has had a good innings and I must move on.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Did he read the letter?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh might say, there are big residential tenancies markets in both counties.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies will have to discuss the matter another time. They cannot raise it on the Order of Business. I am moving on.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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These were utterly improper appointments.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy, that is a matter for the Whips as he is well aware.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Will the Minister come before the House or will he make a statement now?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has had a good run and I must move on.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He is too green to come before the House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Will he make a statement?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is afraid.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We have a report on the PRTB.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am moving on.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is too green to respond.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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He is yellow.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Does he want to make a statement?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no question of that happening.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He wants to make a personal statement.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On a point of order, it has been a long-standing practice that when a Minister does something improper, he makes a statement and answers questions in the House. This week we received a report from Threshold indicating a huge increase in the number of illegal evictions.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not in order.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is something which affects people. The PRTB made 100 decisions which have been struck down and I want the Minister to make a statement.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Whips to discuss the issue and take the heat out of it because it is not in order.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is not something——

Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister wants to respond.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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He will not do so.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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He wants a chance to respond.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Why did the Minister appoint county councillors from County Donegal and County Monaghan——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy wants to know if the Minister will address the House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——to the Private Residential Tenancies Board, even though he had no authority to do so?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter is not in order and I must move on.

P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Jobs for the boys.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am not responding.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not going into the matter.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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May I explain something to Deputy Lynch?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will have to ask the Deputy to leave the House in one second.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy please allow me to explain something?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please have the manners to allow me to explain something.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil is smiling even more broadly.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Under Standing Orders of the House which are long-standing and I did not make, if a Minister is to make a statement, it is on his or her own initiative. That is clear and specific.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In his own time.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is the position. If Members wish to change Standing Orders——

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Stand up and speak.

P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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That is putting it up to him.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We can only laugh about it.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Come on.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He lacks the courage.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Gilmore is not in a position to force the Minister to speak.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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He is too green.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I want to be helpful.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On a point of order——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Minister, Deputy Harney, to reply.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Progressive Democrats are now the watchdogs for the Green Party, as well as Fianna Fáil.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I apologise. Is the Minister replying to the question I raised earlier?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is a matter for the Ceann Comhairle to decide whether he will allow a question or a matter to be raised on the Adjournment. Otherwise, the Whips can meet to decide whether time should be devoted to this issue. The Minister made the appointments in good faith. I know from taking legislation through the other House, in particular, that every party campaigns to have councillors included in boards and feels sore when they are excluded.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Last night, on the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008——

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not true. Where did the Minister of State get that information?

Deputies:

It is true.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Really, where did the Minister of State get that information?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have to move on.

Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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If the Ceann Comhairle allows time or if the Whips agree, the Minister will deal with the issue.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Motion re sittings and business of the Dáil, a substitute motion on a supplementary Order Paper——

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On a point of order——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Gilmore to sit down.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Gormley, is moving away.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Gilmore, it is a long-standing tradition of the House that when the Chair is standing you must sit down.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is in retreat.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am raising a point——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order and I am moving on.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am raising a point of order.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I told the Deputy what the Standing Order is.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am raising a point of order.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Tell me what the point of order is. I doubt if it is one.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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You are pre-judging him, a Cheann Comhairle.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We will have to get to know each other a bit better, a Cheann Comhairle.

The Ceann Comhairle said that personal statements made by Ministers are at their initiative. I am saying this Minister did something that was illegal last June.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let me tell you about that as well.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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If that is not——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy Gilmore. I have to stop you there. As you well know——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputies to grant me the courtesy of allowing me to continue. The Deputy must know that allegations against any Member can only be made by substantive motion and not by innuendo or otherwise across the floor of the House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There is no innuendo.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is not innuendo. It was in the papers.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is the Standing Order. I did not make the Standing Orders. That is what it is.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On a point of order——

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a point of order, I imagine.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is very brief and entirely in order. The Minister for Health and Children has just said, with the authority of the leader of the Government today, that the Whips would meet to discuss a time for this matter.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am happy with that.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Could I have some information on when we will meet? I suggest we agree a time for the Minister to come to the House immediately after the Order of Business.

Pat Carey (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should come to my office straight after this.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Straight after this.