Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will make a statement of clarification regarding proposals to amalgamate a number of bodies under the aegis of his Department, namely the Equality Tribunal, the Equality Authority, the National Disability Authority, the Data Protection Commission and the Irish Human Rights Commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32816/08]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As I indicated in reply to Parliamentary Question No. 768 on 24 September last, in the current economic climate it is incumbent on the State to ensure that the citizen is provided with services that give value for money and that are effective and efficient.

It is also essential that there is the optimum level of transparency and accountability in the delivery of such services to the citizen. This is particularly the case with regard to the large number of non-commercial State agencies now in existence, which was adversely commented on in the OECD report on the Irish public service published last April.

In the context of the 2009 Estimates process, all Departments, including my own, are examining options to rationalise their agencies with a view to delivering financial efficiencies as well as the more effective delivery of services to the public.

It is equally important to ensure that agency functions do not overlap, that there is effective and ongoing communication between these bodies and that the opportunities for synergies, including the sharing of corporate services and other back office functions, are availed of to the fullest extent possible. Moreover, the Government is anxious to ensure that in delivering public services, State agencies avoid the risk of confusing customers by any overlap of functions or roles.

All the bodies mentioned by the Deputy are included in this analysis and are the subject of critical evaluation based on these principles. I assure the Deputy that any solution arrived at will in no way dilute the level of services provided to the public in the areas of disability, human rights, equality and data protection.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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This year marks the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It seems clear that the Irish Government intends commemorating that anniversary by emasculating the Irish Human Rights Commission and important aspects of our human rights mandate. What sort of cost benefit analysis has the Minister undertaken? It seems to me that the overall cost of maintaining and running the five bodies mentioned in the question is about €17 million. What cost benefit analysis has informed the Minister's decision?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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A cost benefit analysis is being carried out on this, but the total financial allocation for the five agencies mentioned is around €18 million for 2000. They employ 170 staff. I deny that the Government is trying to dilute the issue of adherence to human rights. We have a commitment under the Good Friday Agreement to have infrastructure on the protection of human rights, which will continue. However, it makes sense to look at the issue of trying to get value for money. Fine Gael has made its name on these issues to a certain extent. I have been subjected in previous ministries to exhortations from that side of the House, particularly Fine Gael, to set up agencies all over the place. I have to say that I have generally resisted that. It has to be said that we are where we are.

I am looking at all agencies — not just the five mentioned — in the context of the 2009 Estimates, which will be difficult. We are looking to find synergies in order to save taxpayers' money. For example, my Department's payroll is organised centrally by a part of the Department. Other Departments are now using that to save on payroll costs, including the Department of the Taoiseach. That saves money in processing salaries for civil servants in both Departments. That is what we are looking at.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I put it to the Minister that there is much more involved in this sinister move than the saving of money. This proposed merger is an attempt by the Government to intimidate bodies and agencies that have criticised it in the past. The Minister is right about Fine Gael and saving money, as we produced a substantial document on it earlier in the year. However, it did not make any reference to the five agencies, as outlined in the Minister's attack. Last week we saw that FÁS is haemorrhaging money to the tune €1 billion per annum, spending lavish weekends in five star hotels at €20,000 for two nights. That is where the Government can save money and cut costs.

Does the Minister consider it legal to amalgamate or dilute the Irish Human Rights Commission, having regard to the fact that the Good Friday Agreement was voted upon by the people of this country in a referendum? The legal status of the commission is enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement to mirror the sister body in Northern Ireland. Does he consider the proposal to amalgamate the body to be legal?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I do not need any lectures from the Deputy on the principles and the objectives of the Good Friday Agreement.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I would not attempt to lecture the Minister on them.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I would not stand over any removal of the section of the agreement which states that a human rights body would have to be established with a mandate and remit equivalent to that in Northern Ireland. That does not mean that the body cannot share in things like corporate services and other synergies. The Deputy refers to the issue of——

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is that all this is about?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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——cost effectiveness. Yes, that it what this is all about. There is an onus on each organisation, just as there is an onus on Departments with fewer Exchequer resources, to get value for money and to ensure that synergies can be put in place if they exist. Ultimately, the level of savings would not be significant if we got rid of all these bodies. We are just endeavouring to get value for taxpayers' money.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A carefully targeted attack.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is only going to co-ordinate the payroll.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I call on the Minister to answer the next question.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbitte is intervening.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The last question was Deputy Flanagan's priority question.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I have a list here of all the so-called quangos that Fine Gael wanted me and others to set up. The Deputy speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask the Minister to obey the Chair, please.