Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 2: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of cases being handled by the whistleblower, Mr. Brian McCarthy, appointed to receive complaints from members of the Garda Síochána; the reason he refused to disclose the location of the whistleblower's office in reply to previous parliamentary questions; if he will confirm that the office is located within his Department; his views on whether this is the most appropriate location; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32827/08]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The confidential reporting system under the Garda Síochána (Confidential Reporting of Corruption or Malpractice) Regulations 2007 commenced operation in June of this year. The Garda Commissioner has issued a confidential reporting charter to all sworn members and civilian staff of the Garda. The charter contains the contact details of the confidential recipients to whom confidential reports may be made. The people in question include the external confidential recipient, Mr. Brian McCarthy, the former Secretary General to the President, who was appointed by my predecessor. The other nine confidential recipients were appointed by the Garda Commissioner from within the Garda organisation.

I have been informed by Mr. McCarthy that, to date, he has been contacted in three cases by people within the Garda about their concerns. Mr. McCarthy's contact details have been supplied to all the people for whom his services are intended, namely sworn members and civilian employees of the Garda. His office is located in a building shared with other bodies operating under the aegis of my Department. It is not a public office and members of the public do not have access to his services. As the Deputy is aware, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is the body to which members of the public may make reports about Garda behaviour. Its contact details and location are well advertised. The whistleblower regulations provide that the confidential recipient appointed by the Minister may be assisted by members of staff who are civil servants. In view of the likely volume of work anticipated in this area, staff have not been assigned full time to this role.

Staff have been assigned to be available to assist Mr. McCarthy on a part-time basis, as required. They do this in addition to their normal duties. The staff concerned are from my Department but are not from the main areas dealing with Garda matters. They are civil servants, subject to the provisions of the Official Secrets Act, as well as the confidentiality provisions of the whistleblower regulations which require them to protect the identity of a person who makes a confidential report. I am satisfied that these arrangements are entirely appropriate and allow for the provision of the service in a secure, efficient and economic manner. The staff concerned are fully aware of the sensitivity of their role and the confidentiality requirements.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I tabled this question because the Minister gave me an answer previously which said that there is indeed a confidential recipient but that he could not tell me where he is or what he does.

Did the Minister read the Morris reports? Does he think there is anything more serious than what is contained in those reports? Does he accept what Mr. Justice Morris says, namely, that what he uncovered in Donegal is not particular to that county only? Is it good enough in those circumstances to announce, as his predecessor did last March, that Mr. Brian McCarthy was being appointed as a confidential recipient but then nobody could find out where he was functioning from? I rang the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and was told he was there but when I rang back, I was told they did not know where he was. The Minister has confirmed today that he is in some annexe and not in the principal departmental area.

If I were a conscientious, diligent garda, and there are thousands of them out there, some of whom are demoralised by some of the practices going among a minority of their colleagues, does the Minister think I would go to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make a complaint? What kind of a whistleblower's confidential recipient may not be accessed by, for example, a Member of this House? What does that do to tackle the illness that Mr. Justice Morris exposed in his reports?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Obviously we all abhor what went on in Donegal and accept the recommendations which flowed from the Morris tribunal reports published to date, as well as those that will come from the further two reports. The Deputy must accept that fairly dramatic changes have been made by the House and the Government at the instigation of the recommendations of the reports and that will continue to be the case when the two final reports are published.

With regard to the location, it is on Harcourt Street, in a secure building. Mr. McCarthy is satisfied with the level of security available to him with regard to his modus operandi from that building. He is very conscious, as are the staff assigned, of the issue of confidentiality. Members of the Garda Síochána are all aware of how to contact Mr. McCarthy to give him any information they wish, in strict confidentiality.

I emphasise that the building in question is not accessible by officials from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, other than the four people who are assigned to work with Mr. McCarthy, and neither is it part of any Garda operation nor near any Garda station. I am satisfied with the arrangements and, as I have said, three cases have already come to the notice of Mr. McCarthy. Complaints have been made and he is independently examining them. The Garda Commissioner has nominated eight chief superintendents as confidential recipients and one civilian.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Civil servants and their Ministers have a habit of calculating how far we will get on oral questions and then giving minimal information in the subsequent written questions or questions that do not come up for oral reply. If I did not personally know Mr. Brian McCarthy, I would have doubted his very existence on the basis of the answer I received previously from the Minister. However, I know he exists and I put it to the Minister that it is not doing anything for Garda morale that the confidentiality he has described surrounds him or that a Garda is required to either present physically or make contact with him within the aegis of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

I must say, although I regret having to do so, that I am sceptical about the nine chief superintendents. Certainly the gardaí who have identified cases to me are not going to approach a chief superintendent. I am sorry it should be that way.

The Minister did not answer my question regarding the Morris reports. I know he is a very busy man and I do not know if he has had the opportunity to read those reports. They are absolutely hair-raising. It is hair-raising that such events should happen in this small country and the fact that a High Court judge believes they did not only happen in Donegal should be a serious cause for concern in this House.

Mr. Brian McCarthy should be independent, stand alone and accessible by people in this House, for example, who have serious cases brought to their attention and who want to deal with them through an independent confidential recipient.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I did take the time to read the Morris reports, particularly since I became Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Indeed, I am in the throes of reading the two current reports, which will be published shortly. They are very large reports and I compliment Mr. Justice Morris on the way in which he has addressed the entire issue. He said in his third report that, subject to safeguards, it should be possible for any serving member of the Garda Síochána to ring Garda headquarters and speak in confidence to a designated officer or group of officers about any real concerns he or she may have about misconduct within the organisation. I am satisfied, as was my predecessor, with the system that has been set up around Mr. Brian McCarthy, and I accept what Deputy Rabbitte has said regarding his bona fides. He can be contacted by the people to whom his job relates directly either by telephone, fax or correspondence addressed to a post office box. All of that is indicated in the whistleblower's charter. Members of the Garda Síochána know exactly how to contact Mr. McCarthy. There is no mystery about where his premises are located. The building is on Harcourt Street and is not in any way connected to the Garda Síochána. He is in a building shared——

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In an earlier reply, the Minister would not tell me the location.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have no difficulty, as I said to my officials, in indicating publicly where the office is located. It is in a building in Harcourt Street shared by other bodies under the aegis of the Department, but it is safeguarded by security measures to the highest standards.