Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Question 114: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a speech (details supplied) reflected her views; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [31095/08]

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that the remarks to which the Deputy refers are those concerning reform of the public sector contained in the speech delivered by my colleague on 12 September. The Minister of State, Deputy John McGuinness, has made it clear that the remarks as delivered reflected his own personal views. The views expressed are some of many sets of views as to how the public sector should be conducting its business on behalf of the taxpayer in 2008 and beyond.

The Government has listened to views from all sides of public sector reform debate and decided on a course of action that involved asking the OECD to undertake a review of the Irish public sector. The OECD Report on Public Sector Reform, which was launched in April of this year, contains a set of key recommendations that we have committed to implement. We have established a task force, whose membership includes respected figures from the private sector, to drive this agenda and I, together with my colleagues in government, will not be found wanting should difficult decisions on reform be required.

It is my view and experience that there are many excellent people working within the public service, many of whom receive modest salaries in return for a lifetime of service to the public. That said, real problems exist. There is a need for more flexibility in the delivery of services to the public, much greater efficiency and better value for money and for further modernisation of systems and working practices. The OECD's report reflects my views. It recognises the value of the extensive reform efforts undertaken to date in customer service, e-Government, human resources, financial management and better regulation. Implementation of the quality customer service programme has brought about improvements visible to citizens. The performance management development system, PMDS, has resulted in better functioning individual organisations.

Notwithstanding these improvements and reforms, the OECD clearly identified the challenges that remain. It indicates that if we can better sequence future reforms, we can further improve performance and service delivery and achieve greater efficiencies. Furthermore, many of the reform initiatives we have introduced to date have focused largely on the Civil Service, which represents only one tenth of the public sector, as opposed to the broader public service. The public sector needs continuously to review its systems, processes and procedures to ensure that it is responsive and efficient and that it provides high quality, value for money services. In other words, citizens need to be sure that the public service will deliver the services they expect when, where and as needed.

The OECD's message is clear, as is mine. We must put the public at the centre of our public services. That is our ambition in government and it is at the core of how we are approaching the process of public sector reform.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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It is a shameful and broad-brushed attack on the Civil Service and public service. The majority of public servants are decent, hard working people, some of whom are on pitifully low wages and struggling to survive. Clerical officers are an example. Of course, there is an urgent need for public service reform. Everybody knows that and public and civil servants accept it. However, while this slash and burn approach might garner some kudos for the Minister in the right wing press and among right wing commentators, it contributes nothing to the debate about public sector reform.

Many civil servants are stretched to their limits. Does the Minister realise that the Department of Social and Family Affairs is struggling to cope with the collapse in employment and the growth in the live register to the extent that there are 38,000 applications for unemployment benefit still to be processed? The Department does not have enough personnel. I have some specific questions for the Minister. Will she outline what changes she has made in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment since she took office? Does she agree with the Minister of State's remarks and do they apply to her Department? Is she satisfied that each of the agencies under her remit are, first, value for money; second, being run effectively and, third, well managed? If so, is the Minister of State, Deputy McGuinness, simply looking for favourable headlines? Has the Minister of State's speech been discussed at the Department's internal management meetings?

Is the Minister of State talking about cutting the home help service, families' front-line nursing services, the national educational psychological service or the number of local authority workers, who have already been slashed with the 3% payroll cuts? A number of those workers will be gone and the public will soon realise it when services will no longer be available. Is the Minister talking about cutting the number of gardaí?

The Minister's party has been in government since 1997. What tangible changes have been implemented since then? If there have been changes, about what is the Minister of State complaining? If there have not been practical changes, why not?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are 49 seconds for the Minister to reply.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is efficiency. Some of the Deputy's questions were addressed to me in my role as Tánaiste as opposed to my role as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. It is important that there is balance in this area.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I hope I am the balance.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is the counter-balance.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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My experience in the pay talks categorically shows there is an attitudinal change by employers, unions, politicians and the people who work in the public service. We must deal with productivity and flexibility issues; that is the only way services can be provided. There is an acceptance of that. It is hoped that, on the basis of discussions by the unions and employers, we will have agreement on the pay talks, although I do not wish to pre-empt them.

As regards the agencies and changes within the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I have met many of the people who work for me and with me. I agree with the Deputy, as I stated in my reply, that the work of many people in the public service goes well beyond the financial retribution they are paid because they are part of the public service. Equated to this is a need to ensure flexibility and change.

There is an old saying that one should never ask somebody to do something one would not do oneself. I will be working with officials in my Department to ensure we are receiving value for money, are flexible and are changing and evolving. Reform is about evolving. The Deputy will be aware that the Taoiseach is, as are all Members, committed to public service reform. It is in the context outlined that my Department and agencies will participate in this reform.

The Deputy will be aware that all agencies and their work are to be reviewed prior to the budget. I have views on the matter and they will be expressed by the Minister for Finance in due course.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will allow a brief supplementary question from Deputy Penrose.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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"Do unto others what you would do unto yourself" — one of the first actions of the Taoiseach was the creation of three new posts of Minister of State.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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No, what I said was that one should never ask somebody to do something one would not do oneself.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Let us deal with that issue here and the cost it imposes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am providing value for money.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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Does the Minister agree with the statement made by the Minister of State, Deputy John McGuinness? If so, what practical actions will she take? If the Minister does not agree with him, she should say so.

I would like to know if it is the position of the leading party in Government that the public service is responsible for the condition of the economy.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A final brief reply from the Minister.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is hard to answer that question. At the end of the day, the Deputy knows full well that is not the situation. With all due respect, I do not have the time to get into the complexities of why we are experiencing economic difficulties.

It is important to say that the views expressed are my personal views, some of which have been reflected by people outside and within this House. In my view we need public sector reform. Those within the public sector agree we need that reform and are more than happy to work towards achieving it. Arising from the OECD recommendations, we will be taking action, unpalatable or otherwise.

Deputy Penrose will agree that there are those within the public sector who are wrongly vilified and who do not get the support they need for the work they do. We need to take a balanced approach to this issue. As I stated earlier, it is about taking people along, working with them and showing the political leadership to allow that to happen. That is the format on which this will done.