Dáil debates

Tuesday, 8 July 2008

Ceisteanna — Questions

Departmental Staff.

2:30 pm

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the non-established civil servants or contract staff currently employed in his Department; if changes are planned in respect of these personnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14625/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the role and responsibility of the special political advisers or other non-Civil Service staff employed by him; if changes are planned in regard to these personnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14626/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the names, titles and duties of the programme managers and advisers appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17125/08]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

There are 12 non-established civil servants, including contract staff, currently employed in my Department and in my Tullamore constituency office. Mr. Joe Lennon is my programme manager, and Professor Peter Clinch, Mr. Gerry Steadman, Mr. Brian Murphy and Mr. Declan Ryan are my special advisers.

Under the direction of the programme manager, the primary function of the special advisers is to monitor, facilitate and help secure the achievement of Government objectives and to ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for Government. They are also tasked with giving me advice and keeping me informed on a wide range of issues, including business, financial, economic, political, environmental, administrative and media matters, and performing such other functions as may be directed by me from time to time. In addition, several of my advisers have specific responsibilities in regard to speech drafting. My programme manager meets other ministerial advisers on a weekly basis. He monitors and reports to me on progress in implementing the programme for Government.

The Government Chief Whip has four non-established civil servants employed in my Department and in his Finglas constituency office. The two constituency staff are work sharers. Mr. Padraig Slyne is the special adviser to the Government Chief Whip.

There is one Government press secretary, Mr. Eoghan Ó Neachtain, and two deputy Government press secretaries, Mr. Mark Costigan and Mr. John Downing. These are supported by two non-established civil servants. The Government press secretary and press officers provide an information service on Government policy to the public through the national and international media on behalf of myself, my Department and the Government, together with promoting a co-ordinated approach to media matters across all Departments. The central task of the deputy Government press secretaries is to assist the Government press secretary in communicating to the media the decisions of Government.

The personal assistants and personal secretaries in my Department have a range of duties, including providing administrative assistance in the constituency office, the protocol division and the Government Chief Whip's office. The Green Party programme manager, based in Government Buildings, is not a member of staff of my Department.

The political advisers in my Department are appointed in accordance with the terms of the Civil Service (Regulation) Act 2006 and the relevant directions of the Department of Finance.

My Department currently employs nine non-established civil servants. These are its librarian, five UCC students on internships, two temporary clerical officers who are replacing Department staff on term time, and one civilian driver assigned to the Leader of the Seanad. The librarian in my Department has responsibility for the management of the library and information services in the Department.

The five UCC students currently on placement in my Department are being given an opportunity to complete the work experience module of the UCC B.Sc. in government and public policy 2008.

Term-time working provides for leave for the purpose of allowing working parents or primary carers to match their working arrangements to the main summer holidays of their children, or to care for a person who resides with them and who has a disability which gives rise to the need for care on a continuing or frequent basis. Under this term-time scheme, my Department has taken on two temporary clerical officers on a 15-week contract basis to cover for permanent staff who are availing of term time over the summer months.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I understand the Taoiseach has arranged a press conference for 3.15 p.m., immediately after Taoiseach's Questions, at which he intends to announce the decisions that were made by the Government this morning with regard to the state of the public finances and the economy. As regards the questions currently before him, will he tell the House if the Government has made any decision concerning the restriction or embargo on employment, or any limitation on recruitment or employment of public or civil servants? Second, has the Government made any decision with regard to the replacement of public servants who leave? Third, has the Government made any decision with regard to the pay and remuneration of public servants? How will the decisions made this morning apply to the categories of staff covered by the three questions he is now answering?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government concluded its meeting a short time ago. As a matter of courtesy a statement or press release will be laid before the House at 3.30 p.m. at the same time as I am having a press conference with the Minister for Finance. The question of how we deal with pay issues going forward is a critical matter. From my point of view, the staff referred to in these questions are unaffected, in specific terms, as regards any decisions that are to be announced concerning those matters. Specifically, however, special advisers act under the various guidelines that are set out for remuneration and they are adhered to in this respect.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I return to my Question No. 1, which refers to non-established civil servants and contract staff. Question No. 2 refers to special political advisers or other staff employed by the Taoiseach, his Ministers of State and his Department. The latter question specifically asks if changes are planned in respect of those personnel. The Taoiseach has effectively confirmed that the Government has made decisions this morning concerning the employment, recruitment, replacement, pay and conditions of public servants generally. What are those decisions? They clearly concern the staff which are the subject of these questions. My question specifically asks about changes in regard to those personnel.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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These questions relate to the Taoiseach's Department.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yes.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot broaden it.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am asking about the Taoiseach's Department. The Government has made decisions this morning and I am asking the Taoiseach if he will tell the House what decisions have been made about staff recruitment, replacement and pay, since those decisions clearly concern staff which are the subject of these questions.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It does not concern the staff referred to in these questions. These non-established civil servants, including contract staff and political advisers, remain in place for the duration of my tenure. Their tenure ends whenever my tenure ends.

We will be having a press conference today at 3.30 p.m. on the decisions made by the Government. The press release will be laid before the House and there will be an opportunity at 4.15 p.m. to discuss it further. There will then be a nine hour debate on the economy over Wednesday and Thursday. The Government is preparing the press release at present, based on decisions which have just been made.

The specific personnel mentioned in the questions are governed by the guidelines that apply to special advisers under the Public Service Management Act 1997.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Did the Taoiseach say that there are five interns from UCC working in his Department? I did not hear him clearly. Is there a specific reason the students are from UCC, as distinct from other colleges, or is there some kind of rota?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a work experience module in a degree programme of that university, known as the bachelor of science in government and public policy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It does not apply to other universities.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No. I was just making the point that they are in my Department. They are not answering to me.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand that. Can the Taoiseach confirm that there is now a freeze in the appointment of further political advisers? I know that the Taoiseach has taken on an eminent professor of economics who deals with emissions. Does this mean that he is now effectively removing control of the climate change area from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government? He never attends this House anyway.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not agree with that. In addition to providing policy advice on economic and other areas, Professor Clinch advises me on the process of integrating policies across different Departments, in anticipation of the challenges posed by the international environmental policy agenda. He has a level of expertise in this area, but also in economics generally. His particular expertise is an indication of the priority that we attach to the issue, as it assists us to meet a challenging agenda.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I recognise that it is a challenge and I am aware of his expertise. I just assumed that the Taoiseach felt he needed to get a hold of the issue in his own Department, which would explain the professor's appointment. Is there now a freeze on the appointment of political advisers?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No appointments are contemplated at the moment, but we would leave open the possibility of taking advice for whatever length of time, either formally or informally. Professor Clinch brings a level of expertise to an important area, which is how to integrate policies across different Departments in order to develop economic efficiency, environmental sustainability and the general question of energy security. This is a major issue for Ireland, Europe and the wider world.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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From the Taoiseach's replies, it seems the categories of special political adviser, contract staff and non-established civil servants, who are mainly employed for political purposes, will be exempt from the Government's decision today on the recruitment and replacement of staff in the public service. Is that what the Taoiseach's replies to the House indicate?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No, that would not be a correct understanding of my reply. I simply wish to make the point that it is open to an incumbent Taoiseach to employ advice as required. As I said in my response, I do not contemplate further advisers in the immediate term, based on the advice I have at the moment.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Minister sitting beside the Taoiseach, Deputy Hanafin, states that her Department is becoming more important as a safety net for the quarter of a million people who will be on the dole by Christmas and decides she needs another political adviser, when the Taoiseach says such an appointment is not contemplated, does this mean it is not ruled out? With reference to what Deputy Gilmore said, is the category of political adviser exempt from any proposed embargo or freeze or reduction in numbers being contemplated by the Government in respect of the current situation? If a Minister or Minister of State wants to take on another political adviser to help to deal with the wrath of the public, will the Taoiseach sanction such an appointment or will he decide the Government needs to show good example and there will be no more recruitment of political advisers during his term?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am simply saying that everyone will comply with the existing guidelines. There is no requirement for Ministers to need any further advisers beyond those they already have, based on the current regulations and guidelines. The Department of the Taoiseach has the opportunity, should it be required or necessary, for the Taoiseach to provide himself with advice as Head of Government. As I outlined in a previous reply, I do not contemplate changing the present arrangements in the foreseeable future.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I wish to concentrate on the position from today onwards. I understand from the Taoiseach's responses to the questions that if he or any of his Ministers is of a mind to employ additional political advice or additional staff in their offices, they are free to do so and that whatever decisions have been made by the Government, do not apply to the employment of staff in ministerial offices or in the Taoiseach's Department.

What is the position from today onwards with regard to the replacement of the categories of staff to which I have referred? If one of those staff leaves, will he or she be replaced or is there an embargo or restriction on the replacement of such staff, particularly arising from whatever decisions the Taoiseach has made today and which he is not prepared to share with the House just now anyway?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are regulations in place as to the number of staff Ministers are allowed and these must be complied with. Staff are provided on the basis of need and for the provision of whatever advice is required. Under the Public Service Management Act, that restriction does not apply in the Taoiseach's office, although as I have said, I do not contemplate increasing the number of advisers I have.

The Government has just made decisions which we are currently preparing to bring to public attention and as a result I cannot share them with the House at this moment. The question will be to deal with these matters in a practical and sensible way.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We must be the only Parliament in the world where Government makes a decision and the Head of the Government will not tell the House what that decision is until he goes out to a press conference to tell them first. However, I will leave that aside. My question relates to the special advisers, contract staff and non-established civil servants, who work in the Taoiseach's Department, many of them involved in political duties. The Taoiseach told the House the number of staff who are currently employed. Is the Taoiseach saying this number will not increase beyond today? If one of those staff from any of those categories, leaves, will he or she be replaced? Does the Government's decision today affect this in any way?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To answer the question again for Deputy Gilmore — I am not trying to be problematic — I do not contemplate a situation in which more staff are required.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am not asking what the Taoiseach is contemplating. I am looking for facts.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On an individual retiring from the present complement, it will be a matter for decision by me whether a replacement would be required. It will depend on the circumstances. The issue is to ensure we comply with the regulations set out in the Public Service Management Act 1997. I recall the first political party to insist on special advisers was the good Labour Party itself when it came into office.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Government will cut back on nurses though.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The history lecture is not necessary.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I will pursue the question another way. I appreciate the Taoiseach may be becoming a bit weary of the questioning. If he answered it, however, we could move off from it.

Does this mean that from today there is no embargo on the recruitment of political advisers and contract staff in the Taoiseach's Department and other ministerial offices? Does this mean there is no restriction on replacement of adviser and contract staff? The Taoiseach said several times that if he contemplated he needed more advisers, there is no restriction on increasing the number of such staff in his office.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is a limit on the number of advisers a Minister can have, and that is being complied with. Under the Public Service Management Act no such restrictions on the number of special advisers to the Department of the Taoiseach apply. However, I do not intend in the foreseeable future to provide for any further advisers. On the question of should a replacement be required if someone retires or resigns, it can be considered on its merits but I would be mindful of the overall situation.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does this refer to the further recruitment of consultants? Are we to be faced with a raft of consultants doing work on an hourly basis for Ministers and the Government over the next 12 months? Has the Taoiseach decided to use the resources of the public service and the expertise within it? Does the Taoiseach's reply allow him to employ a raft of consultants between now and next year?

The Taoiseach referred to the press conference at 3.30 p.m. that he will hold with the Minister for Finance and the subsequent statements to the House. Will this spell out all the decisions made at Cabinet this morning? Will we have to wait until each individual Minister gives a statement over the next several days?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss this matter.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach has referred to this several times already.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question refers to the non-established civil servants, contract staff and political advisers in the Taoiseach's Department.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It refers to public service numbers, the recruitment of political advisers and consultants.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not the Government's intention to employ a raft of consultants on an hourly basis. The Government intends to use the resources available to the State within Departments, and outside them when appropriate, to ensure the right decisions are made for the country. That has been a feature of every Government in the past.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When Deputy Martin was Minister for Health and Children, he had 20 advisers.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It has been my intention for the House to debate the actions to be taken by the Government to deal with the current economic situation. I do not intend to defer decisions until after the House goes into recess. The Cabinet meeting ended not so long ago and the press release has been prepared. When the press conference is held, the press release will be made available to the House at the same time. There will be an opportunity at 4.15 p.m. for some questions to be asked, and there will be a debate for nine hours. There will be an opportunity for everyone to come into the House and for the position to be explained to the House, in so far as possible. No more open or detailed way can be found to do this apart from that outlined in the interests of communicating to everyone and having a debate on the issues as they arise. The Government is being as open as it possibly can be.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has said that if a member of the staff leaves, he will make a decision as to whether he or she will be replaced. Similarly, if he believes at some stage that he wants to add to the number of staff, he can do so. Will the same rule apply to every other Department and every other section of the public sector? Will all managers in the public sector have the same latitude the Taoiseach described, or is this just an arrangement for himself?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The point I am making is that under the Public Service Management Act certain issues arise in respect of advice to the Department of the Taoiseach, which are specific. As regards the general point, we shall be outlining the position at 3.30 p.m. and subsequently the general approach the Government wishes to take in control of public expenditure going forward, including the question of staff costs.

3:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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How can we be sure the decisions the Cabinet has made this morning will actually be implemented? The Taoiseach has just said the Government will employ whatever expertise it believes is necessary in order to make the best decisions for the country. I respect that, as I do the Taoiseach's willingness to have a debate in the House, which is only right and proper as this is the forum of the people.

The Taoiseach's successor as Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Micheál Martin, produced 120 consultant reports at great public expense, very few of which were ever implemented. In the report on the national development plan produced just recently by the Minister for Finance, there is a €251 million underspend in the energy programme. When the press release is issued at 3.30 p.m., how can the Taoiseach guarantee the decisions made by the Cabinet will actually follow through, because there are innumerable examples in this programme, and others, where money allocated by the Government to various sectors, whether mental health, suicide prevention or whatever, have never actually been implemented?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny should be aware we are dealing with unestablished civil servants, contract staff and advisers in the Department of the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The questions are also about consultants, which I asked about, and——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must hear the other questions, as regards consultants, yes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——the Ceann Comhairle always had a big thing about consultants and knows I should ask these questions. He often encouraged me to ask questions about that in a previous existence.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I assure the Deputy I do not encourage him.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will a minimum number of consultants be employed by Government from here on, if they have to be employed at all?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As regards the annual report, referred to by the Deputy, obviously it is in the context of the National Development Plan 2007-13. The overall spend contemplated for the national development plan was, in the main, delivered upon and expended upon those items, broadly speaking, as planned. Due to the multi-annual nature of allocations, timing issues come into play as regards some headings. Some contracts are sent out sooner than would have been anticipated, while others will take longer. This reflects the normal changes in the matrix one might expect for that level of expenditure. In fairness, it indicates the fact that the national development plan's efforts to integrate across its broad strategic headings, applying investment as planned, actually took place in 2006, as reported in 2007. The big challenge, going into 2008-09, is the extent to which we can adapt circumstances to continue to meet the strategic priorities and to prioritise. Also, we must ensure our public finances are put on a sustainable basis. What the Cabinet did today is the first phase in that effort to ensure that, in respect of the spending we anticipated for this year, our spending limits will be adhered to, given that our tax returns will be down. It is important to do that based on the knowledge we have and to prepare for the Estimates round and the budgetary position for 2009, outlining the challenging position we will face to get through 2009. There is a process here of engagement and decisions being taken by Government to take account of the changed environment in which we now find ourselves economically. The Government is being genuine in its efforts to come to the House as soon as possible thereafter and to have a full debate on the issues so that the full House can give its views.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government is facing the inevitable.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Fair enough if that is the Deputy's view, but the Exchequer returns officially came out last week, we discuss those in Cabinet this week and then we will come to the House with a detailed outline of how we see the position currently and how we see it progressing from here. That is a fair assessment of the situation from the Government's perspective.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The bottom line appears to be that, whatever the Government decided today with regard to limitations on staffing in the public sector, it does not apply to the Taoiseach's office, Ministers' offices, political advisers and the whole array of political staff employed by the Taoiseach and his Ministers.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Once again, that is not a fair or true assessment of the situation. I outlined the position very clearly. We do not intend to increase the number of advisers to Ministers as they have their complement. In regard to the Taoiseach's office, I outlined the legal position. I also told the Deputy what I am contemplating, that I do not expect that any further adviser will be required in the foreseeable future. I cannot be any more straightforward than that.