Dáil debates

Tuesday, 8 July 2008

3:00 pm

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Question 58: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when it is intended to publish the report of the casino regulation committee, which was submitted to the Government in April 2007; if it is intended to proceed with the plan to establish an informal committee of Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas to consider the report and related matters; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27030/08]

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Question 121: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the proliferation of casinos in recent years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27159/08]

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 58 and 121 together.

I refer the Deputy to my answer to Question No. 53, given earlier today. As I indicated, progress in this area can best be achieved through cross-party consensus. I acknowledged that there are widely diverging views on the subject, not only between different parties but within the parties. My aim is to ensure that gaming activities are carried out within a responsible framework which recognises the reality of these activities and the changed environment in which they now take place, including on the Internet, and which also ensures they are properly and responsibly managed, particularly in respect of those who may experience problems as a result of their participation in gaming activities.

My proposal was to proceed on the basis of agreement to establish a cross-party committee and to publish the report of the casino committee, Regulating Gaming in Ireland, within the framework of that committee. However, due to the delay in establishing the cross-party committee, I have decided to go ahead with the publication of the casino regulation committee report imminently in advance of the establishment of the informal cross-party committee. I will welcome all observations on the report.

As it is still my intention to proceed with the establishment of the committee, the invitation to the Labour Party for a representative to participate in the committee remains open. This approach presents an opportunity to Oireachtas Members to contribute, at the important policy formulation stage, to the future architecture of gaming in Ireland. I remain of the view that it is the best way forward.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister offers the view that this is such a complex issue that it requires an all-party committee. He put forward the same view in regard to statutory rape. I do not know whether he regards these two issues as more complex than the economy or whether he also intends to involve the Opposition in the financial management of the State.

Other than the casino sector, which is currently unregulated, what are the Minister's priorities in terms of regulation? When does he intend to put in place the proposed informal committee of the House?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I intend to publish the casino regulation committee's report in the coming days. The committee considered a broad range of issues other than simply casinos. It strongly recommends that gaming and betting should be treated as two completely separate types of gambling activities — for example, it makes recommendations in regard to where each can take place.

These are complex issues. This excellent report deserves further analysis not only by the Government but also by the Oireachtas. It points to the need for a regulatory authority, based in the Department, to oversee gaming and casinos. It also refers to the incredibly addictive nature of fixed odds betting terminals, which have become a prominent feature in the United Kingdom. The report also refers to the issue of Internet gambling but it comes to no conclusions. These issues can only be dealt with through a comprehensive examination which includes a mechanism whereby the public can make its views known, whether in support of or in opposition to the proposals.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister acknowledges that the international literature indicates that fixed odds betting terminals are woefully addictive, especially in the case of young working class youths. In light of this and having regard to the difficulties we experienced 20 years ago, which resulted in local authorities exercising their power to exclude slot machines, is the Minister agreeable to publishing the casino regulation committee's report with a commitment that the all-party committee will not have to consider the question of allowing for the introduction of fixed odds betting terminals in the State?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I have given my views on this issue. The casino regulation committee has recommended that it be examined. The report was reasonably restricted in terms of the type of consultation that took place. It looked at international practice as well as some of the research that was done previously in the State. We now have an opportunity to allow people to give their views. From what I have read concerning these terminals, I would be hesitant about allowing them to be available anywhere in the country because they are the modern, sophisticated equivalent of one-armed bandits. The report refers to the issue of Internet betting, which is far more complex. This report draws on a range of issues, including where betting is taking place. That raises issues about taking legal action concerning how the Internet is operated. Internet betting is targeted in this report.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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In the context of this urgent problem, which requires public discussion and consideration by Members of the Oireachtas, can the Minister explain why this report has been suppressed by the Government for a year? Can he explain why it was not published a long time ago? Would the Minister agree that gambling, and particularly Internet betting, is ravaging the lives of many young people in their teens and 20s? Has the Government given any consideration as to what policy, if any, it might put in place to tackle that issue?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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When this report became available, it was the Government's view that a cross-party committee should be established. The Deputy's party was asked for its views and, in fact, it was suggested that a Fine Gael Member should be the committee chairman. The reason for the delay was that we could not get all party agreement.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is looking for a fall guy to take decisions he is incapable of making.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbitte made the reasonable point that it may be better to publish the report now and they can then make a judgment on their obvious reluctance to participate in the committee without seeing the report. I accept that point.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister have any view on any aspect of the report?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Please allow the Minister to reply.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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This report needs detailed consideration by the Oireachtas, which by and large over the years has not addressed the issue properly.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has not considered it either and he is afraid to do so.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The last piece of major legislation was in 1956, the year after I was born.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is playing political games with this issue, as he is with the referendum.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We now have an opportunity to consider this issue broadly, given the fact that the report targets modern accessibility of the Internet by these new fob keys, as they are called.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Government has had the report for a year. Does it have any view on it?

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps I am missing something here. We are dealing with an issue which the Minister states is of some importance. He quotes from a report in his possession that no Members of this House or any members of the public have seen, yet he expects people to engage, at his invitation, in some informal group to discuss the matter. It is at least a discourtesy to Members of the House to selectively quote extracts from a report that nobody else has seen. The only reason we cannot see it is because he will not let us do so. I ask the Minister to publish the document tomorrow. He should provide each Member of the House with a copy of the document before matters are progressed any further. If the Minister accedes to my request, which is eminently reasonable, he might explain what he means by an informal committee. What terms of reference does he have in mind?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, I will be publishing the report within the next few days. I can publish it tomorrow. I do not see any problem in that respect. As regards the informal committee, it is a cross-party committee. The discussions about it predated me becoming Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I understand that my predecessor had discussions with Deputy Seán Barrett and other Members on the formulation of such a committee. My predecessor believed it would be the right way to proceed on important policy formulation, thus giving the Opposition an opportunity to participate. The Government side of the House is not saying it has all the knowledge on it. The last time a piece of major legislation was brought forward in this area was in 1956.